clhomme Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 I have a Les Paul. I've researched the elements of this guitar and narrowed it down to the 1959 range, but I haven't got any further. Any help on identifying this guitar would be great. I have my doubts because of the color - its not the usual 59 sunburst. It has clearly aged Rover tuners, and the Gibson logo seems to match the year, but there is no serial number that I can find.. Thanks in advance! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dem00n Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 Its not a 59 les paul, i can tell you that. But the three screw TPC thorws me off. I do know however that there were a few norlin (70's) les paul that have had 3 screw TRC. I wouldnt call it a fake just yet. Did you send pictures to gibson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GIANTRobOT42O Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 Thats from the 70's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tman5293 Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 Definitely 70's Norlin era. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damian Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 Welcome to the forums.....Nice old LP, not a '59 as you now know......Clean it up and play it, I'll bet the wood has aged gracefully....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L5Larry Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 not a '59 as you now know...... It's not a Gibson either. At no time did Gibson put a gold silkscreen logo on a Les Paul Standard, nor a three screw truss rod cover (no, not even the Norlin years). Probably an Ibanez from the 70's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damian Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 It's not a Gibson either. At no time did Gibson put a gold silkscreen logo on a Les Paul Standard, nor a three screw truss rod cover (no, not even the Norlin years). Probably an Ibanez from the 70's. Kinda thought that too L5Larry, but I posted quickly, knowing that one of you six experts would set things straight !!! Thanks, and clhomme will (should) thankyou as well.....I still say that because it's old that the wood will have mellowed, thus should sound nice, for a copy.....Yet, L5Larry, why would Ibanez put a Gibson logo on an Ibanez LP copy ?? Must have been put on after a purchase or perhaps isn't even an Ibanez......( ? )....... ( I didn't suggest it was a Gibby, just an LP, but perhaps non Gibbies should not be called LPs period; but then again L5Larry, ALL Slash Gibson and Epi Sig Slash LPs are modeled on Slash's LP which itself is NOT a Gibson Les Paul, and it FACINATES me that Gibson is making and selling Les Pauls based on a LP copy..) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigKahune Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 Some authenticity concerns - Headstock - Gold Gibson logo script, no "Les Paul Model" script (while the body and neck appear to be bound); and the shape on the top of the headstock seems like it might be off - looks like the top center cleft on the top of the headstock is not deep enough. TRC - 3 screws, odd shape. Burst - Looks like a larger rimmed, small center, Gibson acoustic burst, not what you usually see and Gibson electrics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L5Larry Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 Yet, L5Larry, why would Ibanez put a Gibson logo on an Ibanez LP copy ?? During much of the seventies Ibanez was making better Gibson guitars than Gibson was. What has become known as the "Lawsuit" guitars were great instruments, that's why Gibson filed a lawsuit against them with a cease and desist order. I had a friend that worked for the Ibanez distributor at the time (St. Louis Music), and I played many of them, great guitars. They made ALMOST perfect copies of many Gibson models, and in fact probably made the most authentic copy of the original Flying V that anyone, including Gibson, has ever made. As Gibson was getting a bad rap during the Norlin years, Ibanez was making copies of Gibson guitars from golden era. Oh, and by the way, in the late seventies Ibanez put out a Les Paul model called the "MPC", that had interchangeable on-board effects circuit boards. You could buy whatever effect you wanted (I think it had two slots), phase, overdrive, flange, etc, and drop 'em in. Remind you of anything that was just announced to "change the face of music" (Firebird X). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damian Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 Thanks for the info.....good stuff for all to know, well, to those who didn't know...I had heard about the 'Lawsuit' guitars and will do research on them... I trust that since this is clohomme's first post, he has learned a lot 'bout how to learn info here, and I hope he's learned about his guitar.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 There are a couple of interesting things about that copy. That is the first one I've seen which has (well, had) mini-buckers fitted as standard. Anyone else seen one like this before? The bridge p-up looks like an early DiMarzio unit - very likely a Dual Distortion. If, as seems practically certain, it's from the heyday of Jap copies it should prove to be very well made and have a sound to match. Not quite the $200,000 deal a '59 'burst would be but probably a nice player all the same. P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bender 4 Life Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 my best friend had a mid 70s Ibanez 12 string acoustic that played and sounded as good as, if not better than any 12 string i've ever heard. when he passed from "agent orange" cancer, his son took it with him and moved across the country.....I sometimes wonder if he still has it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clhomme Posted November 18, 2010 Author Share Posted November 18, 2010 Wow! I certainly didn't expect to get this kind of response! Thank you all. Before I knew diddly squat about Gibsons I went online and looked up the various parts to this odd thing, and drew charts showing timelines for the various pieces (as well as I could judge) and it narrowed it down to 59... and I had no appreciation at the time what guitars were considered decent and what guitars were considered junk... it was only recently I learned the 59s had some (to say the least) value... and I've been thinking for some time it was a 59 - but as you say, the sunburst certainly didn't match any 59 I could find. The head stock also seemed a little bit off - not quite as much of a carved flourish as a true Gibson. And the lack of a serial number, of course, makes you go hmmm... I knew that various companies over the years had produced knock offs and had my suspicions. But I'll tell you, so many of the bits and pieces look so very similar to the parts of a 59 I was somewhat hopeful... Whatever the heck it is, you can pluck a string, walk away, make a turkey dinner, come back and listen to the resonance. Its got a wonderful sound... I really appreciate your help on this! What a great forum! At the risk of over-staying one's welcome I'm going to post a couple more photos later if anyone is interested... Chris. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clhomme Posted November 18, 2010 Author Share Posted November 18, 2010 ... Of course, now that I've read all this I feel kinda silly thinking it was a 59! c. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 ...At the risk of over-staying one's welcome I'm going to post a couple more photos later if anyone is interested... Chris. Yes, of course we're interested. We're just a bunch of folk who like guitars - all shapes, sizes and makes. Post away; as many and as detailed as you wish! P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksdaddy Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 I'm betting the three screw truss rod cover was just stuck on there. If you remove it, you will probably see the original hole(s). The fact that it has a mini humbucker in the front tells me it's obviously never been a Standard... my '71 Deluxe has an inlaid logo but they also made one called a Les Paul Pro with P90s. Maybe that one had a silkscreened logo. Maybe that's what this started out as and the P90 in front was swapped out for a mini humbucker (direct replacement). And then routed for a full size in back obviously. I think it's probably a real Gibson, just with a checkered past. And a really bad sunburst via a spray can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookieman15061 Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 During much of the seventies Ibanez was making better Gibson guitars than Gibson was. What has become known as the "Lawsuit" guitars were great instruments, that's why Gibson filed a lawsuit against them with a cease and desist order. I had a friend that worked for the Ibanez distributor at the time (St. Louis Music), and I played many of them, great guitars. They made ALMOST perfect copies of many Gibson models, and in fact probably made the most authentic copy of the original Flying V that anyone, including Gibson, has ever made. As Gibson was getting a bad rap during the Norlin years, Ibanez was making copies of Gibson guitars from golden era. Oh, and by the way, in the late seventies Ibanez put out a Les Paul model called the "MPC", that had interchangeable on-board effects circuit boards. You could buy whatever effect you wanted (I think it had two slots), phase, overdrive, flange, etc, and drop 'em in. Remind you of anything that was just announced to "change the face of music" (Firebird X). Yeppers had one myself. Beautiful guitars and I thought i was way ahead of the rest of the guitar pickers around me because of my hot tech axe. Only problem was it only held two effects and if you wanted the phase instead of the overdrive you were having to open the back and change them. It was just a pain while playing live. Otherwise a great player and one I wish I had back. Here's my son holding mine back in the late 80s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damian Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 Yup.... You say that you can pluck a string and it will ring and resonate forever......As guitars age ( once again if I'm wrong I'll be corrected ) the wood dries out allowing more resonance to flow through the wood; which is why older guitars usually sound better than newer ones. L5Larry thinks yours may be a quality Ibanez, so, it may have been built with a good grade of mahogany. There's a whole science and debate on which finish is best for guitars to age with, and the personal choices and preferences vary a lot. All good guitars will eventually age, affecting their tone....The secret to Stadivarius violins is that the wood he used came from trees stressed during the 'mini ice age', and the wood had small thin growth rings, making a dense wood perfect for instruments.....Gibson these days uses different grades of mahogony as supplies of the best grades diminishes, so the best goes into their custom shop guitars....Interesting stuff to study.....anyways...blah, blah, blah... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 I'm betting the three screw truss rod cover was just stuck on there. If you remove it, you will probably see the original hole(s). The fact that it has a mini humbucker in the front tells me it's obviously never been a Standard... my '71 Deluxe has an inlaid logo but they also made one called a Les Paul Pro with P90s. Maybe that one had a silkscreened logo. Maybe that's what this started out as and the P90 in front was swapped out for a mini humbucker (direct replacement). And then routed for a full size in back obviously. I think it's probably a real Gibson, just with a checkered past. And a really bad sunburst via a spray can. You raise a few interesting points, ksdaddy. Firstly, just to get it out of the way, it's not a Les Paul Pro; those had the wider Norlin-era headstocks. But why I think it gets interesting is if we assume, just for a moment, it IS a Gibson. Which model, then, is it? As you say, it's not a DeLuxe. They, too, had the wider headstock and inlaid 'Gibson' logo. Could it be one of the '68 Gold-Tops? They were brought out with the narrow headstock and had a pair of P-90s. As you say; these are easily swapped for the mini-buckers. The only snap I have of one, however, shows it with the SG-style 'crown' inlay on the headstock and, again, the inlaid 'Gibson'. It's certainly an interesting guitar; It looks to have a very good copy (if, indeed, it is a copy) ABR-1 fitted. It has period-correct 'Reflector' knobs but they are (wrong for Gibson) gold-mirrored rather than silver-mirrored. The knobs have metal pointers. Many copies of the period had pointers but most I've seen were plastic - not metal. The 'horn' is closer in shape to the '52 - '60 LP's than those produced by Gibson themselves during the Norlin era. And finally it has an original-fitment-looking Mini-humbucker! I, for one, would love to see more, and better, pictures; namely - What does the underside of both p-ups look like? What does the binding in the cutaway look like? What does the inside of the pot cavity look like? What does the inside of the p-up cavities look like? What does the rear of the peghead look like? What does the mahogany blank used for the body look like? What does a close-up of the bridge look like? What does the truss-rod end look like? I'm still pretty sure it's a Japanese copy but it's certainly intriguing! P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damian Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 Well, I have seen the light, and this addition fits here.....I've been doing a bit of research on re-issues, mostly R9s, and more in the last few days. I understand now, quite clearly what they are and the differences between the ones from different years. I want one, need one, and I'm going to get one....I have approval from both my cats and girlfriend....outside of an actual '59, a re-issue is THE Les Paul to own.....Mine will be played, and played a lot.....Yup, I've seen the light, it's at the end of the tunnel, but I'm gonna get there.......and when I do I'll post photos...... I credit Pippy and R9 in part for my understanding of what a REAL Les Paul is........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 ...I credit Pippy and R9 in part for my understanding of what a REAL Les Paul is........ Hey there! Don't Blame Me! LOL! I wish you 'Good Hunting in your Quest' and remember to ENJOY THE CHASE! P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clhomme Posted November 18, 2010 Author Share Posted November 18, 2010 Pippy - Thanks for the interest - I'll post photos tonight.. Chris. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigKahune Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 Ah yes . . . It gets curiouser and curiouser . . . B) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dem00n Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 Post alot of good photos. Im still on the side saying this is a gibson, ive seen some crazy **** from the Norlin era. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincentw Posted November 18, 2010 Share Posted November 18, 2010 What concerns me are the Rover tuners. But seriously, I'd be interested in seeing a photo of the serial number. That'll be the nail in the coffin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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