Pickup Replacement: Soldering in the Pickup Cavity

[bluewaterpig]

I'm going to be replacing the pickups in my ES-333. Both pickups are regular 2 conductor style.

 

I looked up a few different strategies and I've seen that some people clip the wire right at the back edge of the old pickup and solder that to the wire of the new pickup, leaving all the extra wire coiled around the new pickup. In other words, not touching any of the volume/tone pots at all and doing all your work in the pickup cavity. Although the 333 does have a rear control panel access, I just don't wanna mess around with the solder job that Gibson did on the volume pots.

 

Now I'm hearing some people say that this is a lazy way to do it and that it can cause problems.

 

What do you guys think? Is it fine to do it this way?

[Andy R]

Well,

Hmmmmm.

Is this a "Proffesional way to do it ? No, and you end up with a stubby little pick-up wire on the pick-up your taking out.

Are you good at Soldering and do you have a proper soldering iron ( not a glorified wood burning pen ?)

 

In my humble opinion if you are competent with solder and a soldering iron then you should remove the old pick-up by either clipping or unsoldering them directly from the pots. Then solder your new pick-ups directly to the pots.

 

If your not competent at soldering then I would take it to someone who is.

 

The only reason that I can see for people to clip the wire by the pick-up and then solder the new pick-up leads to the new wire is it allows you a little more access (in some cases) to solder in. Generally meaning they are probably not all that great at soldering. You also risk accidentally burning the face of the guitar if something should go wrong.

 

Best way in my opinion is to remove the old pick up as stated above and use some masking tape around the control cavity as well as a damp cloth around where you are soldering to keep from burning the edges of the cavity by accident. Use an alligator clip as a heat sink to keep from over heating the wires when you solder.

 

So in closing if this were a good way to do it then Gibson and everyone else would do it the way you are talking about....

 

Again just my opinion.

 

Good Luck!

 

Andy

[Dub-T-123]

I would be more concerned with ruining the original pickup than touching Gibson's soldering.

 

I don't see any problems from doing it that way if you do it well but I wouldn't recommend it.

[surfpup]

 

What do you guys think? Is it fine to do it this way?

 

Do it the right way. If you can solder in the pup cavity, you can solder in the control cavity.

The bonus is that you will be able to sell the old pups since they will actually have a usable

length of wire on them!

[badbluesplayer]

Rectora's right on the mark. As long as it has an access panel, its best to do it right. If you had to work the wiring out thru the F holes it might be another story. Plus, soldering two ends of shielding together just makes a mess and looks riffy.

 

If you have a 40 W soldering iron, it'll work fine. If you have a 25 W iron, it'll take a little extra time. As long as you can solder ok, you can do it. Or ship it to me and I'll do it for you and make sure it plays good.

[bluewaterpig]

I have a 25w iron and I was doing some soldering earlier today and it was heating the solder up nice and quickly. Does a 40w really make a huge difference? Also is there a certain type of solder I need to use?

[Andy R]

I have a 25w iron and I was doing some soldering earlier today and it was heating the solder up nice and quickly. Does a 40w really make a huge difference? Also is there a certain type of solder I need to use?

 

25 Watt should be fine for the wires to the Pot Lugs ( Tin the end of the wires of the pick-up leads first by heating the bare wire and allowing some of the solder to wick in) It might take a bit to get the solder for the ground wire that is soldered on top of the pots to pool well with a 25 Watt. Also about any electronics solder will work just don't use Plumbers solder!!! Also remember it's not about heating and melting the solder it's about heating the connections on the parts so that the solder flows on the part. If not you get cold solder joints.

[Riffster]

I'm going to be replacing the pickups in my ES-333. Both pickups are regular 2 conductor style.

 

I looked up a few different strategies and I've seen that some people clip the wire right at the back edge of the old pickup and solder that to the wire of the new pickup, leaving all the extra wire coiled around the new pickup. In other words, not touching any of the volume/tone pots at all and doing all your work in the pickup cavity. Although the 333 does have a rear control panel access, I just don't wanna mess around with the solder job that Gibson did on the volume pots.

 

Now I'm hearing some people say that this is a lazy way to do it and that it can cause problems.

 

What do you guys think? Is it fine to do it this way?

 

I would agree with those who say that is the lazy way to do it.

 

Leaving all that wire will bring in noise, even if shielded.

 

Cutting the leads on the existing pickup will lower their resale value.

 

You have an ES-333, the advantage is that you have easy access to the pots, I would use that feature.

 

I have experience soldering that's another reason for my opinion.

[bluewaterpig]

So I'm assuming I just have to solder the new pickup wire to the appropriate volume pot. Do I solder it right on top of the pot, or do I have to solder it to the lugs on the side of the volume pot?

 

Thanks again guys, everyone has been a great help. I'm planning on doing this all on Christmas day when I get the other pickup so I wanna make sure I know what I have to do instead of searching for answer on Christmas. Thanks again!!

[Dub-T-123]

Look at how the wire is soldered on now and copy that.

[Riffster]

Look at how the wire is soldered on now and copy that.

 

Exactly, and on top of that take a close up picture if you have a digital camera handy, that way you will can be sure what went where.

[Andre S]

As someone who asked similar questions before I rewired my les paul,

 

Make a drawing of the electronics cavity as it is now.

 

The wattage of the soldering iron doesn't matter. I used a Weller 25W soldering iron and Rosin Core solder.

 

The important thing is to let it heat up sufficiently before use. Ensure that you place protective material around the control cavity to protect the finish. I made a burn mark when the soldering iron slipped on the Les Paul back.

 

Are you just putting in new pickups? or are you upgrading to RSGuitarworks pots and caps?

 

 

You will need to solder the metal braided covering of the pickup wire to the back of the pot. (this is the grounding),

 

Push back the metal braided cover and the black insulation and twist the metal wire around the lug and solder it in place.

When soldering, ensure you have a secure connection without solder, and then solder it in place.

 

Anything else?

[Andre S]

Oh and don't rush any part, I messed up the first time I rewired my les paul and ended up having to remove all the parts from the guitar, solder it outside where you have some wiggle room and then install it. However since you are just doing pickups you shouldn't have that issue.

[surfpup]

Yep. Solder the braid to the pot and the lead to the lug. Easy peezy. It is a good idea to take a pic

for reference. Or you can just draw it out. I've done that many times. Also there are tons of wiring

diagrams on the internet. Finally, if you get stuck I'm sure someone here can help you out.

[canon_mutant]

Agree with others to take the time to do it right or take it to someone that can. My Lifeson ES-355 has had a hum problem since day one that I thought perhaps was just a open cavity [F-holes] hollow body issue. Other guitars have conductive tape or coating inside the electronics/pup cavities and are sealed.

 

But a while back while fixing an intermittent bridge pup problem I discovered that from the factory there were just 2 wires coming up soldered to the pup wire stubs. The wires weren't shielded or even a twisted pair. Just wires. So, now I've got the braided shield all the way from pup to the varitone switch [where mine go to] and the hum problem is almost completely gone. The neck pup still has a slight hum because the bridge pup has a common ground point at the pup end too due to where they mounted the large coil that's a part of the varitone circuit so the bridge pup, that coil, and the bridge are all grounded right there and again down at the switch. The neck pup is only grounded at the switch so it has a long loop problem. Next time I restring, I'll run a ground from the neck pup braid over to that same common ground point as the bridge and that problem should be gone. Too bad this thing came from the CS shop this way though.

 

Good news is that I think it's a keeper again. Was going to part with it to a collector due to all the issues on a $3.5K guitar but have the tuning issues mostly fixed with a roller bridge and locking tuners, the pups have come back to life again, and the humming is mostly gone now and will soon be gone for good with proper wire routing and grounding.

 

 

Sorry for the war and peace response but thought others might benefit if you're having any hum problems on these semi-hollows.

[djroge1]

Another vote here to say take your time and do it right. Unsolder at the pots and do not cut the pup wire at the pup because:

 

1. It will be hard to sell the pups if you wanted to sell them due to short leads

2. It will be hard to replace into the guitar if you ever want to put them back (it could happen)

 

Also, it is wise to take a picture and make a wire diagram of how it is currently wired.

 

As for the original wire job they did at Gibson - personally I trust my own abilities over theirs but that's just me.

 

Yes there is a difference between 25w and 40w Iron. The only possible difficulty you might have is doing the ground on top of the pot. It just takes a longer time. Make sure you have a solder iron and NOT a solder gun. I learned how to butcher my '78 Les Paul with a gun and I have the burn spots to prove it. I was also 15 at the time so it was a great learning time. I now use a variable temp iron.

[bluewaterpig]

Alright so here are some pics. I've circled the wires that lead to the pickups.

 

I understand what you guys are saying about soldering the metal braiding to the back of the pots. I was going to ask why, but I realized it's for grounding.

 

I also realized that there is an additional wire soldered to the same lug where each pickup is soldered. My question is:

 

1) Will it be difficult to remove the pickup wiring from the lug without removing this other wire? Or should I just aim to remove both wires from the lug and then solder both back?

 

2) Do you recommend tinning the ends of the pickup wires before soldering them to the lug? Shouldn't they be flexible so that I can wrap them around the lugs? I hope this is clear enough to understand...

 

 

Neck:

 

 

 

Bridge:

 

[Andre S]

Well I'm not familiar with the insides of 333's and my LP had a load of thin coloured wires which made it a little easier but in the before time, the same type of wire, ie the metal braided wire (like the pickup wires) were used for the pickup selector switch.

 

Try to follow the wire. It would probably lead to the selector switch.

I'll check my stock wiring diagram I drew to see if the selector switch wire connects to the same lug.

 

I would recommend tinning it. Twist 'em together and tin it. It will still be relatively easy to hook it around the lug.

[Andy R]

Alright so here are some pics. I've circled the wires that lead to the pickups.

 

I understand what you guys are saying about soldering the metal braiding to the back of the pots. I was going to ask why, but I realized it's for grounding.

 

I also realized that there is an additional wire soldered to the same lug where each pickup is soldered. My question is:

 

1) Will it be difficult to remove the pickup wiring from the lug without removing this other wire? Or should I just aim to remove both wires from the lug and then solder both back?

 

2) Do you recommend tinning the ends of the pickup wires before soldering them to the lug? Shouldn't they be flexible so that I can wrap them around the lugs? I hope this is clear enough to understand...

 

 

Neck:

 

 

 

Bridge:

 

 

 

Is there enough lead on the pickup to take the pot out and desolder and re-solder? Tining pick up leads is more of a matter of opinion. I usually doe it so you don't get the fray loose wires. I also don't like bending and kinking wires before I solder them.

 

You will probably need to remove both wires from the lug, clean up the lug hole and the end of the wire you will be putting back in. Again this is just my way and style...

 

And by the way. What exactly are you planning on putting in there? My other piece of advice as mentioned by someone earlier keep your original pick - up.

 

 

[Andre S]

Is there enough lead on the pickup to take the pot out and desolder and re-solder? Tining pick up leads is more of a matter of opinion. I usually doe it so you don't get the fray loose wires. I also don't like bending and kinking wires before I solder them.

.

 

It might be more difficult but still do able if you don't clean up the lug.....

[Andy R]

It might be more difficult but still do able if you don't clean up the lug.....

 

You have to be careful of what you stick in a dirty hole! You might not see a problem right away but the next thing you know your going to see a professional who will clean it out with a pipe cleaner.

[damian]

ALL of the above.........And remember; soldering guns and eggnog do not mix...

[badbluesplayer]

Yup - what they said.

 

Where there's two wires hooked to the outside lug - the one that's not the pickup lead - that's the wire that goes to the tone pot. The wire hooked to the center lug goes to the switch and the other outside lug is the one that's grounded to the top of the pot.

 

[Andre S]

Yup - what they said.

 

Where there's two wires hooked to the outside lug - the one that's not the pickup lead - that's the wire that goes to the tone pot. The wire hooked to the center lug goes to the switch and the other outside lug is the one that's grounded to the top of the pot.

 

 

Doesn't the capacitor connect the volume and tone pots?

 

Maybe I'm wrong but the stock wiring in my lp had nothing between the volume and tone pots other than a capacitor.

[bluewaterpig]

Excellent advice everyone.

 

So I'm going to be removing both wires at once, tinning them together, and then soldering that back onto the lug.

 

When tinning the two wires together, how do you guys twist the wires together? Do you fray the wires out on each and then twist them all together to create something that looks like one wire, or do you keep both wires pretty tightly wound and twist them together in a sort of "braid"? Hope that makes sense...