tartanbeastie Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 This Scottish farmer walks into the neighborhood pub, and orders a whiskey. "Ye see that fence over there?" he says to the bartender. "Ah built it with me own two hands! Dug up the holes with me shovel, chopped doon the trees for the posts by me ownself, laid every last rail! But do they call me 'McGregor the Fence-Builder?' No..." He gulps down the whiskey and orders another. "Ye see that pier on the loch?" He continues, "Ah built it me ownself, too. Swam oot into the loch to lay the foondations, laid doon every single board! But do they call me 'McGregor the Pier-Builder?' No." "But ye **** ONE sheep ..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvanPC Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 I wasn't an english major, but is it possible that the word "musician" is being thought of more as an adjective than a noun? Some of the examples given for why we are musicians seem to be more of character traits or personality traits; therefore, making "musician" a descriptive word, rather than the noun it's intended to be. I honestly believe that the origin of the word was intended to imply profession or vocation, and is a noun at its root. Over time, it was realized that being "musicianly" was possible for non-professionals, therefore, one could be considered musician-like in character or personality. In the 16th century, people became lazy and didn't like going through the trouble of saying "musicianly" and shortened it to musician, but used it as an adjective. I'm making all of this up... Man, I need to walk away from this one... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 Tartan... Aye... and such lines also are a favorite of a friend named Mc Rae who grew up in Scotland and now resides in Oz. Perhaps we don't get into some of his stories that are perhaps even more ... regional ... than yours. Evan... I don't think the term "musician" ever meant more than one who makes music. We're all kind of adding our own twist to it based on our own perspectives brought largely by our own experience. m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbreslauer Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 i was driving my son to school recently, doing what i always do while driving: drumming on the steering wheel to the song that was playing at the time. he asked me why i always do that. i replied with a variant on the hammer/nail analogy: "when you are a drummer, everything is a drum." Don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilpanda Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 I was able to play a kazoo at the age of 4. was I a musician at 4? dont worry dem00n. you're a musician to me. (actually to me, anyone who dont like them emg's is a musician) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 Yeah, I know what you mean kinda... Mom made me start on piano at 4. Hated every minute of it until I could quit and took trumpet in 4th grade. Now I wish I'd learned a bit more than where one might find middle "C." On the other hand... there are some kids out there... m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tartanbeastie Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 Its funny, this has been playing on my mind since my last post. I am at the thought that musician is a label for people earning or known for their music. Those of us who play, practice, write etc may be musical but not regarded as musicians because we are not actively out there playing. Music is constantly on my mind, guitars and otherwise but i dont call myself a musician. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DennisMiller Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 "But ye **** ONE sheep ..." I LOVE IT !!!!!! I can't wait until a little jam we are having tonight to tell that one. Quick happy story that's a tangent to this thread, but I'm going to start this conversation with him... Via Facebook and a mutual friend, I recently got back in touch with the band mate who got me started playing guitar about 45 years ago. To make a long story short, I played keyboards and sang in our high school band. We decided to work up a Beatles medley during which we changed instruments around, thus looking much more talented than we really were. I learned C and Em, the only chords needed for Eleanor Rigby and I got hooked on guitar. The band broke up when I moved out of town and the others all went to different colleges. After nearly 42 years, by our calculation, we have found each other again and my buddy still has the same 335 looking red Gibson he had all those years ago. (I don't actually know what the model is) He lives in Winston Salem and when I get to Raleigh to visit my grandkids, we're going to make plans to get together again. I might get to play the very first guitar I ever touched. I need to practice like hell in the meantime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djroge1 Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 musician [mjuːˈzɪʃən] n (Music, other) a person who plays or composes music, esp as a profession mu·sician·ly adj. mu·sician·ship n http://www.thefreedictionary.com/musician Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DennisMiller Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 We are here because we have certain DNA I always heard DNA stood for Don't Need Aptitude. In other words, if you are good at something, it's a god given gift and you don't need to learn it. In that case, I don't qualify and can't be defined as a musician. I find Tartanbeastie's reasoning to be interesting. When i think of what I have done, I'm not sure any vocation I may have had at the time didn't have some effect on who I was. I don't mean it totally consumed me, but it was what I was known for, or associated with, but not defined by. I've been a radio DJ, a golf professional at a country club, run a brush manufacturing factory, designed furniture, built custom made golf clubs, run a scaffold engineering company, been the Youth Director at my synagogue, then later the Executive Director there. In some way, all those things led to people coming to me for other things, whether to be on a board of directors or whatever. Friendships from all those things led to golf games or jam sessions. Where I begin and where I end has become pretty indistinguishable in the process. Being in the middle of a job search, all of the above leaves me wondering which part of it may eventually be the key that makes someone interested in me as their next employee. It would be funny at the age of 61 if it turned out to be the golf or guitar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tartanbeastie Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 I LOVE IT !!!!!! I can't wait until a little jam we are having tonight to tell that one. Quick happy story that's a tangent to this thread, but I'm going to start this conversation with him... Via Facebook and a mutual friend, I recently got back in touch with the band mate who got me started playing guitar about 45 years ago. To make a long story short, I played keyboards and sang in our high school band. We decided to work up a Beatles medley during which we changed instruments around, thus looking much more talented than we really were. I learned C and Em, the only chords needed for Eleanor Rigby and I got hooked on guitar. The band broke up when I moved out of town and the others all went to different colleges. After nearly 42 years, by our calculation, we have found each other again and my buddy still has the same 335 looking red Gibson he had all those years ago. (I don't actually know what the model is) He lives in Winston Salem and when I get to Raleigh to visit my grandkids, we're going to make plans to get together again. I might get to play the very first guitar I ever touched. I need to practice like hell in the meantime. Thats an awesome story, facebook has a lot to answer for.. I met my wife through facebook which gave me reason to make the move from Scotland to Canada Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grampa Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 I considered myself to be a musician even before I started playing guitar. Because of being in the school band I could read charts and scores. I had been a bit of a conductor. I was a pretty good trombone player and played a bit of piano. I'm not saying I was a good musician nor do I think I could have made much money at it but I was and am a musician. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zigzag Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 I think you're a musician when you consider yourself one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tartanbeastie Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 so where is the line between a player of musical instuments and a musician? Is it a vocational thing? I'm a guitar player but i would't say I'm a musician. I can cook but wont say I am a chef. Again so many things we may all do or be capable of or have a feeling for but does it mean we wear the label? The more I think about it, the more i think its about vocation and being labeled. The need to be classed as something. Maybe we are all musicians because we can knock out a tune? If its about being what we think ourselves are then by definition does that mean someone who has never played percussion but taps their fingers on the desk, is in fact a musician just because they think they are?? ooh this is getting deep!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zigzag Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 I've been playing guitar on and off for about 45 years. I've taken lessons, all told, for about eight. I can read music, and I understand a fair amount of theory. I am pretty happy with my playing but know I have a lot to learn. Sometimes I think I sound good, occasionally I think I suck. If I go a day without playing, I miss it. Am I a guitar player? No doubt about it. Am I a musician? I don't consider myself one, yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tartanbeastie Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 good answer, yeah it sounded like such a simple question but when you sit and think about it, all of a sudden its not quite so clearly defined Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silenced Fred Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 This Scottish farmer walks into the neighborhood pub, and orders a whiskey. "Ye see that fence over there?" he says to the bartender. "Ah built it with me own two hands! Dug up the holes with me shovel, chopped doon the trees for the posts by me ownself, laid every last rail! But do they call me 'McGregor the Fence-Builder?' No..." He gulps down the whiskey and orders another. "Ye see that pier on the loch?" He continues, "Ah built it me ownself, too. Swam oot into the loch to lay the foondations, laid doon every single board! But do they call me 'McGregor the Pier-Builder?' No." "But ye **** ONE sheep ..." I love that joke, tell it frequently when I can Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djroge1 Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 good answer, yeah it sounded like such a simple question but when you sit and think about it, all of a sudden its not quite so clearly defined For me it is an easy question and it is clearly defined. The problem it seems is that in our society of relativism and there is no absolute truth we can define words however we want. It all started with the opening question "What does ________ mean to you?" Why not just look up the word in a dictionary or compare different dictionary definitions? Defining answers based on what we feel it is or think it is will always be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zigzag Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 Defining answers based on what we feel it is or think it is will always be wrong. Not really. It's called the "cognitive" definition. If you're not sure what that means, look it up. B) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 Dennis M... I don't agree that something being in your dna necessarily confers talent, but rather that one is disposed toward something. You and I have some not dissimilar experiences, at least in parallel, and I say for myself that I have no talent except an ability to work hard to achieve skill. Guitar playing is something with which I have managed to achieve a degree of skill, but I'm only too aware of people with perhaps less skill, but whose talent allows them to sound far better with less skill. BTW, best of luck with the job search. Truly. It's a difficult time. m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djroge1 Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 Not really. It's called the "cognitive" definition. If you're not sure what that means, look it up. B) No need to look it up I'm well aware of the definition of cognitive. But "cognitive definition" is a fancy way of saying I can make something mean whatever I want. So logically using a "cognitive" definition - I want all of my math class problems to be whatever I decide they are going to be thus I cannot get an answer wrong. Hmmm, the problem is that I received a B in my finite math class. Darn, I shouldn't have gotten any wrong answers because I know and feel my answers were right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zigzag Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 No need to look it up I'm well aware of the definition of cognitive. But "cognitive definition" is a fancy way of saying I can make something mean whatever I want. So logically using a "cognitive" definition - I want all of my math class problems to be whatever I decide they are going to be thus I cannot get an answer wrong. Hmmm, the problem is that I received a B in my finite math class. Darn, I shouldn't have gotten any wrong answers because I know and feel my answers were right. The way you are using cognitive definition is wrong. The cognitive definition is the perceived understanding of a word thru it's continued use. One doesn't assign a word a definition, one perceives what that word definition is thru its repeated use. I can't make a word mean whatever I want it to. Cognitive (definition from dictionary.com): (2) of or pertaining to the mental processes of perception, memory, judgment, and reasoning... In a sense, cognitive definitions are like connotative definitions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 Grammar may be, in ways, math; words are not. There's no real way of making math metaphor, for example. m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WahKeen Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 I think you're a musician when you consider yourself one. Like every American Idol contestant considers himself to be a "singer"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zigzag Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 Doesn't mean you're a good one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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