DMC59 Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 As some of you know, I purchased a used G-400 last summer as my first guitar. At the time, it was difficult to know what would be the best neck for me, which was why I bought used -- less investment if I decided the neck turned out to be wrong for me. As I understand it, the fret board radius on my G-400 is 12". For comparison, I've gone to GC and tried out Fender necks at 9.5" and I find them more comfortable for chording/chord changes. I realize my G-400 may be better for other applications further down the road, but for where I am at now -- learning chords, chord progressions -- the 9.5" seems the better radius for me. I'm a bit bummed because I am very interested in the versatility of the new Epi Nighthawk but I believe the fret board radius is also 12" -- please correct me if I am wrong. I would appreciate (as always) input from the forum members -- Should I be considering any other factors? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fringe Lunatic Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 The Nighthawk, like most Epiphones, has a 12" radius. The tighter Fender radius is more likely than the Epi to "fret out" when bending, if the action is low (which is why you'll often see Strats with high action). It's really all about personal taste and playing style, and only you can decide what works for you. In many ways, my Strat is more comfortable to play than my Dot, but they are very different animals. A Strat with humbuckers might be an interesting thing to try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brad1 Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 Yes, the Nighthawk has a 12" radius. It does have a 25.5 scale like Fenders do though. It also has an ebony fretboard. One thing to consider is string bending. If you like to bend strings a lot, and if you bend them a whole step or more, than you may want to think about it. The flatter radius makes string bending a little easier. The smaller scale on the Epis also makes it easier to bend because you have less tension to deal with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vomer Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 I play Fenders as well as Epis, do whole tone bends, and find 9.5" a good compromise. But I don't require a shredder's ultra-low action. The action on my 7.25" strat is higher than many players would find acceptable. I realize my G-400 may be better for other applications further down the road, which I take to mean you like humbuckers and a generally 'rawk' axe; how about the new Fender Blacktop series with 'buckers and 9.5", or Squier's Vintage Modified Jaguar, Strat or Jagmaster? Not quite the same as an SG, but close enough for rock 'n' roll? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC59 Posted March 2, 2011 Author Share Posted March 2, 2011 I play Fenders as well as Epis, do whole tone bends, and find 9.5" a good compromise. But I don't require a shredder's ultra-low action. The action on my 7.25" strat is higher than many players would find acceptable. which I take to mean you like humbuckers and a generally 'rawk' axe; how about the new Fender Blacktop series with 'buckers and 9.5", or Squier's Vintage Modified Jaguar, Strat or Jagmaster? Not quite the same as an SG, but close enough for rock 'n' roll? Once I've mastered more chords, I'd like to explore Blues -- the basis for R&R after all -- so being able to do bends is important. I know Clapton uses a strat extensively but I figure he is using a 12" radius fret board (I'll have to check) Strat HSSs interest me for the variety of tone,etc... I realize one guitar may not do it all -- I know amps play a BIG part -- but now that I have a bit better idea about what I like in a neck, I am trying be judicious. I'm not in a financial position to own several guitars and tho that would be fun :), I don't think it is a necessity if I choose my 2nd guit and amp carefully. If I end up with a Fender, I'm looking at the $450 - $600 range -- in other words, MIM, which is fine with me. That Nighthawk still interests me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigneil Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 how about something like this? epi fat strat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC59 Posted March 2, 2011 Author Share Posted March 2, 2011 how about something like this? epi fat strat That IS intriguing. Does Epi not currently offer a strat-like guitar because that niche is so well addressed in the marketplace already? Seems logical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vomer Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 The Blacktops are at the lower end of your price range, $450 at Musicians Friend. Might be worth a play, see if you bond. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC59 Posted March 3, 2011 Author Share Posted March 3, 2011 The Blacktops are at the lower end of your price range, $450 at Musicians Friend. Might be worth a play, see if you bond. Yes - That Jazzmaster at $450.00 interests me. Some online research gives me a good impression of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigneil Posted March 6, 2011 Share Posted March 6, 2011 I visited my local music store the other day and noticed that they had a huge selection of fender telecasters and squire telecasters, some had great pickup options. Some had two humbuckers and some even had P90s. check out this John 5 model or this custom squire tele. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Notes_Norton Posted March 6, 2011 Share Posted March 6, 2011 I like longer neck radius guitars. I have no problem with chords on a 14" radius guitar. Perhaps because I started on them. I don't find short radius guitars any easier to play chords on at all. But that's just me. I've always wanted a strat, but the 9.5 radius makes it problematic to bend strings with low action. I also find picking leads with a shorter radius a bit slower, due to the curve of the strings near the bridge. I know Fender does offer a Strat with at 12" radius, but it comes with dreaded, self-destructing gold hardware. I found the perfect solution at the end of last year: Parker Dragonfly (now called Maxx Fly due to a trademark dispute). Mine has neither the DragonFly nor the Maxx Fly name in it, so in the tradition of the Fender Nocaster, I like to think of mine as a NoFly (so I play in the No-Fly zone). <grin> 14" Radius, ebony fretboard, hardened stainless steel frets, Sperzel locking tuners (they work), Fishman Piezo under the bridge, and the Duncan HHS pups that many strat players replace their stock pickups with. Plus it only weighs 5 pounds but sustains like a much heavier guitar. I think if you hang in there and simply put a little time in, your hand will learn how to play clean chords on a longer radius neck. Notes ♫ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordy01 Posted March 6, 2011 Share Posted March 6, 2011 I own a Fender Strat, and a Epi LP. The Strat is a 62 Re-issue made in Japan in the mid 80's. It is of course 25 1/2 scale, and has a 7 1/4 radius with a very low action, and I can bend all day long and not "Fret Out". I think that a proper setup is the answer. Most techs do not do a complete fret level because the cost to the owner is prohibitive. On a lower priced guitar, you can almost match the price of the guitar. When a fret leveling job is done, one of the things that should happen is called "Fallaway". This is a technique where the frets are tapered very slightly in a downward fashion, from around the 12th fret, to the body joint end of the neck. This "Slope" is only about .006 in total, but makes a real difference in the bending ability of the guitar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vomer Posted March 6, 2011 Share Posted March 6, 2011 When a fret leveling job is done, one of the things that should happen is called "Fallaway". makes a real difference in the bending ability of the guitar. Gordy is spot on with this. I didn't want to complicate things too greatly in my reply, and stick to the 9.5" suggestions. As far as I'm aware, those are Fender's only humbucker-equipped 9.5" models, apart from much more expensive and CS stuff. The ones Neil suggested are 7.25" (Custom) and 12" (John 5). I don't honestly know if you would get a 7.25" set up to play as you want, if Gordy has then you might be lucky. I've never done a skim on mine though it does need it now. If I get around to it in the next few weeks I'll post. Taking a few hours out to do that was going to be my birthday present to myself but I've been ill so haven't . Something to look forward to ! After catching up with the housework, business, car, family... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanH Posted March 6, 2011 Share Posted March 6, 2011 Here's my compound radius Fender (well it's essentially a hot-rodded Fender USA strat, made in the same factory) 12-16" radius with Floyd Rose, jumbo frets and a JB and '59 pickup combo. That compound radius and the '59 neck makes it as much of a blues machine as it is a classic '80s Shredder on the bridge JB. These are killer guitars. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigneil Posted March 6, 2011 Share Posted March 6, 2011 Here's my compound radius Fender (well it's essentially a hot-rodded Fender USA strat, made in the same factory) 12-16" radius with Floyd Rose, jumbo frets and a JB and '59 pickup combo. That compound radius and the '59 neck makes it as much of a blues machine as it is a classic '80s Shredder on the bridge JB. These are killer guitars. Alan Nice When you say compund radius 12-16 does that mean that it has a 12" radius at the nut and gradually flattens out to 16" at the 22nd fret. how does this feel to play? does it need any getting used to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanH Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 Nice When you say compund radius 12-16 does that mean that it has a 12" radius at the nut and gradually flattens out to 16" at the 22nd fret. how does this feel to play? does it need any getting used to? Yes, exactly as you say Neil- nut to fret #22. How does it feel to play? Like a dream! I'd say that my most comfortable playing guit from a rhythm perpective is my Yamaha SE350 with its flat 9.5" radius and relatively thin frets. However, when it comes to playing solos with lots of bends and speed work the Charvel cannot be beaten. Does it take getting used to? Well my guits vary from flat 9.5", flat 12" (my Epis and Gibby), flat 14" (my Kramer) radii to this one and, as I play them all, I guess I'm used to all of them. I find it's the rear profile that makes as much of a difference to feel. The Charvel's rear profile is ever so slighty wider and flatter than the typical Epi LP profile but it's not excessive like many superstrats. All I can say is that playing is effortless on the Charvel, be it rhythm or lead. It's my best playing guitar. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC59 Posted March 7, 2011 Author Share Posted March 7, 2011 II think if you hang in there and simply put a little time in, your hand will learn how to play clean chords on a longer radius neck. Notes ♫ I think you have a point there Notes. I'm lookng at 2-3 months down the road before buying something else, so I have more time to adjust/evaluate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC59 Posted March 7, 2011 Author Share Posted March 7, 2011 Gordy is spot on with this. I didn't want to complicate things too greatly in my reply, and stick to the 9.5" suggestions. As far as I'm aware, those are Fender's only humbucker-equipped 9.5" models, apart from much more expensive and CS stuff. The ones Neil suggested are 7.25" (Custom) and 12" (John 5). I don't honestly know if you would get a 7.25" set up to play as you want, if Gordy has then you might be lucky. I've never done a skim on mine though it does need it now. If I get around to it in the next few weeks I'll post. Taking a few hours out to do that was going to be my birthday present to myself but I've been ill so haven't . Something to look forward to ! After catching up with the housework, business, car, family... As far as getting something "to play as I want", I figure as a beginner who wants to play "as I want" , I want an instrument at this time that will work as an all-around good learning tool. I think I've determined a 7.5" radius on a guitar I want as a primary guitar during this early beginning phase is just not right for me -- though I can imagine down the road it might be someting to consider in a 3rd or 4th guitar. The 9.5" radius seems like a good one to learn with, possibly on a HSS strat. Then there is what Notes said: "I think if you hang in there and simply put a little time in, your hand will learn how to play clean chords on a longer radius neck." The whole other angle here is I just want an excuse to buy a second guitar! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC59 Posted March 7, 2011 Author Share Posted March 7, 2011 Here's my compound radius Fender (well it's essentially a hot-rodded Fender USA strat, made in the same factory) 12-16" radius with Floyd Rose, jumbo frets and a JB and '59 pickup combo. That compound radius and the '59 neck makes it as much of a blues machine as it is a classic '80s Shredder on the bridge JB. These are killer guitars. Alan Sexy lookin' too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 I started on classical guitar and frankly I tried Fenders in the 60s and 70s and found them far too uncomfortable with the tighter radius and typically lesser string distance at the nut. I think there are two possible reasons why. First I'm used to a combination of classical barre chords that are easier for me on a flatter neck and wider nut, or using a lot of thumb on the bottom "E" that means a neck of a size I can handle. Secondly I think the overall geometry of an individual's body will make some guitar shapes more comfortable for the left hand positioning. An example of that latter is that a "Dot/335" body seems like the nut is narrower than on SG or 175 or whatever. I have relatively short arms for my altitude, and the weight distribution is just enough different that the angle of my left hand at the nut is a little more- so it seems like the nut is narrower. But it's pay your money and take your choice. I might consider some sort of a Tele with a Gibson neck on it... As for bending on a "F" neck? Funny thing is that Roy Buchanan was among the biggest benders ever, fast or slow pickin', and did fine with a Tele. m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordy01 Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 I think the whole point of what we're all saying, is that you've got to decide for yourself what kind of guitar fits your hand, and your playing style. We're all different, and what works for me, might not for you. Go out and play a lot of guitars. Play Fenders, Gibsons, and everything you can get your hands on. Finding a guitar has been compared to finding a girlfriend. The looks attract you at the start. If it looks good, pick it up. If it feels good in your hands, plug it in. If it sounds as good as it looks and feels, take it home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 Gordy... Yupper. Some guitars will seem almost to play themselves. But here's one other point: I had a guitar in a case for over 20 years. Couldn't bring myself to dump it for some reason I still can't figure out. But it didn't play how I wanted and there was a buzz I couldn't track down. One day I decided to mess with it. Put on totally different type of string - gauge, type, everything. Diddled with the rest of it and figured what made the buzz that even came through an amp. A very simple "fix," it turned out. I can't tell you how much that changed everything. Absolutely everything. Suddenly the guitar was playing itself and with control and amp dial adjustments she'd play about any kind of sound I'd want. m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fringe Lunatic Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 Many of us have and/or have had guitars with different necks, yet we may very well like and play them all, and play them well. I think our skills develop to the point where these somewhat minor differences don't deter us from owning and enjoying different ones. I've read many posts over the years from young players who have difficulty playing a 12-string, for example. My advice to them is to pretend it's a sixer; that maybe they're thinking about it too much. I may like one of my necks better than another, but I have no desire for all of them to be the same. I kinda like the demands they put on my flexibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 Fringe... I'd agree... to a point. I think a lot has to do with overall technique, too, that may or may not lend itself to a given sort of neck, nut width, etc., without thinking about the difference. That's a matter of muscle memory on one type of neck vs. another at a certain point. Yeah, you can do it, but you've gotta kinda think about it. At least for a cupla years. I'm rather certain I could play a Tele and a lotta folks would figure it was OK. Can I do it? Of course. But it would require left hand technique in a different way than I usually do it, and that would require a conscious effort... So... I frankly don't care to do it. The necks I have are enough to mess with... banjo, mandolin, 12-string, nylon string AE that's a little narrower than the average classical neck, old Guild, Epi Dot and AE necks, Gibbie type necks... Ovation neck... 1950s axe handle archtop neck... Elecric bass neck... And as I said above, even the shape/weight distribution of an instrument will bring a degree of difference in body and hand angles at the strings. I make no claim to being a good player, but after nearly 50 years I surely can tell the difference and how it changes technique whether that change is desired or not. Yeah, I'm also the guy who sez, and recommends trying different necks as a learning tool. I just never liked the tighter radius of a Fender. Awww... heck. Time for beddie. G'nite... m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fringe Lunatic Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 But overthinking it is just what I'm referring to. Kinda like learning to play without looking at your hands - ya just gotta do it to get good at it. I'm aware that forums such as this are populated by a large percentage of gearhounds, but my advice to beginners is to learn to play first, then become a gearhound. It's a curiosity to me how many guys out there have a large stable of gear, yet can't play worth a crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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