dem00n Posted March 15, 2011 Author Share Posted March 15, 2011 I'm not disagreeing with you, but how did you arrive at this conclusion? Does On Through the Night sound very metalish to you? :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShredAstaire Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 Remember y'all...a lotta people say a lotta things on Wikipedia...it don't mean they are right. :) Its user entered content don't forget. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff-7 Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 Remember y'all...a lotta people say a lotta things on Wikipedia...it don't mean they are right. :) Its user entered content don't forget. My comment that was retrieved from Wikipedia was a direct quote from an article, a couple minutes of research procured it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FirstMeasure Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 Does On Through the Night sound very metalish to you? :D LOL, of course not, but can you describe what makes it Rock as opposed to Metal. Â The point I'm trying to arrive at is; We define Swing, Waltz, Rock, Ballad, even Blues by Beat and Tempo. Why is it so hard for us to define Metal by beat and tempo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dem00n Posted March 16, 2011 Author Share Posted March 16, 2011 LOL, of course not, but can you describe what makes it Rock as opposed to Metal. Â The point I'm trying to arrive at is; We define Swing, Waltz, Rock, Ballad, even Blues by Beat and Tempo. Why is it so hard for us to define Metal by beat and tempo. Beacause its the sound, its the heaviness that makes a band Heavy Metal. Its the smooth riffs that goes along with the drumming and the bass that follows it all. Sometimes i feel like in metal music all the instruments matter more than in rock. For example, in ACDC you listen to the guitar mostly no and the vocals.? No one really cares about the bass or drummming. In slayer, you have Daves amazing drumming, king and jeff's riffing and Toms sluddering bass lines. Look at death metal, all the instruments matter very much in detah metal, from the cowbell to an E string. I'm not saying rock music is all about guitar, im saying that the contrast of the music is in a way more out there. Metal is so hard to describe beat and tempo because it has it all, blues, swing, walts, rock, jazz...you name it is all in there. Its like a mix of all genres and then add darkness and heavy noise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FirstMeasure Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 Beacause its the sound, its the heaviness that makes a band Heavy Metal. Its the smooth riffs that goes along with the drumming and the bass that follows it all. Sometimes i feel like in metal music all the instruments matter more than in rock. For example, in ACDC you listen to the guitar mostly no and the vocals.? No one really cares about the bass or drummming. In slayer, you have Daves amazing drumming, king and jeff's riffing and Toms sluddering bass lines. Look at death metal, all the instruments matter very much in detah metal, from the cowbell to an E string. I'm not saying rock music is all about guitar, im saying that the contrast of the music is in a way more out there. Metal is so hard to describe beat and tempo because it has it all, blues, swing, walts, rock, jazz...you name it is all in there. Its like a mix of all genres and then add darkness and heavy noise. Interesting, looking at it that way makes Metal more akin to Fusion than Hard Rock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky4 Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 My point with the Zep on Wikipedia post was that the definition of metal has changed over the years. It used to be blues based heavy riff rock. Now it seems to be more classically influenced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 My point with the Zep on Wikipedia post was that the definition of metal has changed over the years. It used to be blues based heavy riff rock. Now it seems to be more classically influenced. That is interesting, as I was thinking musically the only thing I could put my finger on was the use of the minor scales, as opposed to the blues scales. (the pentatonic without the flat 5th is and the flat 7th is actually a minor scale). Â But even still, there are metal songs that don't follow this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MojoRedFoot Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 That is interesting, as I was thinking musically the only thing I could put my finger on was the use of the minor scales, as opposed to the blues scales. (the pentatonic without the flat 5th is and the flat 7th is actually a minor scale). Â But even still, there are metal songs that don't follow this. That's where things get complicated. Metal, Rock, whatever has no rules. Who decides this sh!t? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShredAstaire Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 Who decides this sh!t? Â It seems the listener decides....and so there is no right or wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FirstMeasure Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 That's where things get complicated. Metal, Rock, whatever has no rules. Who decides this sh!t? Â Â It seems the listener decides....and so there is no right or wrong. I think these two post crystallize the issue. Â Music has no "Rules", but it does have "Characteristics" that the listener identifies with and the industry markets. The problem (for lack of a better word) is when the player tries to pigeonhole themselves in a certain "Genre", they need to define that Genre in an effort to Avoid playing outside that genre. Once the player gets into a habit of "Avoidance" they've limited themselves. Worse than that, they've limited themselves with "Non-Musical" terms like "Glam Rock" or "Emo". Terms that were created by Average Listeners and marketed by salesmen the way J.C. Penny markets the new line of Skinny Jeans. Â When players get all tangled up in the Marketing Terms they cut themselves of from really learning the instrument's potential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 That's where things get complicated. Metal, Rock, whatever has no rules. Who decides this sh!t? That may be something there. Â Metal has always been more of a sect of rabid followers, enthusiest, I guess. When poeple other than metalheads who don't have the same passion for it try and describe it or catagorize it there always seems to be a differing view between those who are truly into it, and those who are not. Â It is those who are not with the descriptions that are different than those in the know that the metalheads find offensive. I think they find it overly offensive because of the lack of ackowledgement for what they truly are enthusiastic about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FirstMeasure Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 That may be something there. Â Metal has always been more of a sect of rabid followers, enthusiest, I guess. When poeple other than metalheads who don't have the same passion for it try and describe it or catagorize it there always seems to be a differing view between those who are truly into it, and those who are not. Â It is those who are not with the descriptions that are different than those in the know that the metalheads find offensive. I think they find it overly offensive because of the lack of ackowledgement for what they truly are enthusiastic about. I don't mean to break into your conversation with Mojo, but it could be argued that the Rabid Metal fans would be the least qualified to define it as they couldn't have an objective opinion. They're personal likes and dislikes would certainly cloud their judgment. There would always be the argument "______ isn't metal, they suck!", or like Duane said about TS "Any band (Twisted Sister) that can open for Iron Maiden and hold their own is metal in my book." That isn't any definition of Metal. Metal can Suck and get booed off the stage and Rock and Roll (especially Hard Rock) can hold it's own with a Metal Audience if they Kick ***. Â The most qualified to categorize would be the non listeners, particularly those that wouldn't care to listen to the nuances....take Rap, for example: Â A Rap Enthusiast might say "Will Smith ain't Rap, he's not from the street", or "I like rap, but Gangster Stuff like NWA isn't Rap to me" (oops, am I showing my age). Guess what I'll tell you if you ask me about it, "They are both Rap, no question about it!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 This is an open conversation, you are not just welcome you are invited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimbabig Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 I don't give a damn what metal actually is. I listen to what I listen to, and I like it whatever the **** it may be. Â Â Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MojoRedFoot Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 That may be something there. Â Metal has always been more of a sect of rabid followers, enthusiest, I guess. When poeple other than metalheads who don't have the same passion for it try and describe it or catagorize it there always seems to be a differing view between those who are truly into it, and those who are not. Â It is those who are not with the descriptions that are different than those in the know that the metalheads find offensive. I think they find it overly offensive because of the lack of ackowledgement for what they truly are enthusiastic about. Haters be hatin'. I've been a pretty rabid metalhead for about 20 years now. I can't say I like a specific genre cuz I love em all. I don't care for certain bands that fans and marketers would clump together (Love Unearth, don't like LoG for example, I like As I Lay Dying, but can't stand Norma Jean). I guess that's why the constant arguing of "who fits where" and "this genre sucks" irritates me. That and there really is no clear line so who cares? Look at that metalmap website. I think Amon Amarth is in at least 3 categories. Â I've said it before, I LOVE heavy metal, I just hate the (majority) of metal fans. But it is super fun to meet other metalheads who don't care or know the labels. Â Â But, yeah, rap fans are the same way. I guess if you're passionate aboot something, you will always feel the need to defend or explain it. It's all metal to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fl00dsm0k3 Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 ace of spade got robed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FirstMeasure Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 Haters be hatin'. I've been a pretty rabid metalhead for about 20 years now. I can't say I like a specific genre cuz I love em all. I don't care for certain bands that fans and marketers would clump together (Love Unearth, don't like LoG for example, I like As I Lay Dying, but can't stand Norma Jean). I guess that's why the constant arguing of "who fits where" and "this genre sucks" irritates me. That and there really is no clear line so who cares? Look at that metalmap website. I think Amon Amarth is in at least 3 categories. Â I've said it before, I LOVE heavy metal, I just hate the (majority) of metal fans. But it is super fun to meet other metalheads who don't care or know the labels. Â Â But, yeah, rap fans are the same way. I guess if you're passionate aboot something, you will always feel the need to defend or explain it. It's all metal to me. There's only Two labels I use; Good or Bad. Completely subjective categories that cannot be used in marketing. Â maybe it's because I developed a love for Blues before other types of music. There are some Pretty Bad blues guys out there, there always was. Rabid Fans hate the idea of their Genre being corrupted by lousy performances, but it's just unrealistic to think that a type of music is so good it transcends the musicians ability to write or play. Â Shouldn't the Metal Fan be able to say, "Yeah, Whitesnake is Metal, but I don't like them." I can say, "Yeah, Bobby "Blue" Bland is Blues, but I don't like him." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnastynebr Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 The term is just used a bit too broadly, like "Rock", or "R&B". There is no right or wrong definition, but when I think of "Metal", I think of Slayer, Cannibal Corpse, Manson, Dethklok, and Pantera. Others might include bands that I would not, like Metallica, Iron Maiden, Korn, or the Def Tones. It doesn't make them wrong, it just makes them less correct than me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MojoRedFoot Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 There's only Two labels I use; Good or Bad. Completely subjective categories that cannot be used in marketing. Â maybe it's because I developed a love for Blues before other types of music. There are some Pretty Bad blues guys out there, there always was. Rabid Fans hate the idea of their Genre being corrupted by lousy performances, but it's just unrealistic to think that a type of music is so good it transcends the musicians ability to write or play. Â Shouldn't the Metal Fan be able to say, "Yeah, Whitesnake is Metal, but I don't like them." I can say, "Yeah, Bobby "Blue" Bland is Blues, but I don't like him." Â Haha...totally. You and I think a lot alike. I think you nailed it about fans hating on bands in the same genre that they claim to love. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S t e v e Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 I don't give a damn what metal actually is. I listen to what I listen to, and I like it whatever the **** it may be.  How about instead of treating music like a ****ing support group, you just listen to what you like. Christ. Kids these days and their ****ing tribalism.  i think this should of been on the list http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjZpqgeiGFQ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMichaelG Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 No disrepect to anyone here, but I couldn't care less what genre it is if it moves me. I am not an Ozzie fan but his version of Mississippi Queen is great rock 'n' roll. In any genre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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