Alpha pots

[Cap'n Greenfog]

I had started a thread "Cheap improvements to Epi LP" I found some pickups I like for $50. A friend has a Delta King hollowbody and wants to replace his pickups so I'm gonna buy his stock ones. Probably a fluke, but they sound good and hot. A lot better than my stock Epis. I am ordering a pair of NOS Russian Paper in oil caps for a total of $10+shipping, .022 and .015 at the neck. I know a lot of people would say go with CTS pots, but then I'd have to replace my knobs, as well. I'm trying to improve this Epi. At the moment I can't afford to go all out like I want to. My question is, are Alpha pots better than the stock 500k Epi pots I have? Would it be worth it to spend $10+shipping for the Alphas or would it be a waste of money?

I'm going with the 50's independent wiring scheme. I need to brighten up the guitar and heard 50's is the way to go.

 

Any thoughts, opinions, or advice is greatly appreciated.

[bigneil]

50s wiring is a great mod for someone who uses their volume control a lot because it greatly reduces the effect of the sound becoming muddy as you wind down the volume. I can't comment on pot quality but changing the caps and pickups will definitely be a worthwhile improvement if you get them for cheap. I have found stock epi humbuckers to be rather warm and slightly muted sounding.

[brianh]

I've found Alpha's to be superior than the run-of-the-mill epi pots. Exceptions would be the IBJL Casinos, Elitist and vintage Epis which have USA electronics.

 

It's easy enough to upgrade pots on an LP, but if you were upgrading a semi or hollow body, I'd say spring for CTS since it's such a PIA to work on them.

 

CTS pots are harder to turn which feels more precise once the knobs are on. Alpha pots turn more easily which might be better if you do a lot of pinky-finger volume swells.

[animalfarm]

I use the ALPHA Pots for everything, Playing Gits, Project Gits,

my girlfriend uses them for earrings - just change the knobs to

match the color of her outfit.....

 

I use the Alpha A (Audio Taper) for Volume, and the Alpha B (linear Taper)

for Tone. Never experienced any problems. I use them because:

1. Direct drop-in replacement, fits existing knobs on your Epi.

2. Reasonably priced, easy to replace.

3. Reasonably priced, easy to replace.

 

In the Epi Lounge "Do-it-Yourself" Thread/Sticky, there are 8 threads that deal

with Pots/Caps. I'll post the one that answers the most "common" questions.

To see the rest, you'll have to go to the "D.I.Y.", and scroll down to the:

 

***POTENTIOMETER and CAPACITOR INFO Section and

check out the other entries. A couple are QUITE DETAILED regarding information.

 

Pots and Caps - Frequently Asked Questions:

http://www.hoaglandbrothers.com/pages/FAQ.htm

[RaSTuS]

Alpha A (Audio Taper) for Volume, and the Alpha B (linear Taper)

for Tone.

Replace Alpha with CTS and I do the exact opposite AF, I use B's Linear for Vol, and A's Audio for Tone and I like the results, I want to know the relationship to the numbers, so vol level, so 5 equates to approx half vol.

 

I use a lot of Alphas though, all my push/pulls are Alpha, and I use a heap of them, anything that can be split gets the treatment, even 2 wire buckers, you just take the cover off, unsolder the 2 wire cable, solder in a 4 wire and Bob's your uncle. Of course I don't do it to my higher end gear, that stays original (except my Hembrys, they're my toys), but anything $1,000 and below are modding fodder.

 

 

 

[Whitmore Willy]

I use B's Linear for Vol, and A's Audio for Tone and I like the results, I want to know the relationship to the numbers, so vol level, so 5 equates to approx half vol.

 

RaSTuS,

 

I guess that makes us the few, the proud and the brave.....LOL

 

 

I also happen to think that Gibson and Epiphone got it right. Still, anywhere you look online, the general consensus is audio for volumes? I tried audio for volume and tone once. Seemed like 80% of the volume roll off happened between 7 and 10. I changed to linear volumes and kept the audio tones and have stayed that way ever since. The volume roll offs just seem more evenly spread over the range of the pot.

 

Oh well, to each their own.

 

Willy

[RaSTuS]

The volume roll offs just seem more evenly spread over the range of the pot.

+1

I was trying to say that, but you said it so much better Willy.

[Cap'n Greenfog]

Still, anywhere you look online, the general consensus is audio for volumes? I tried audio for volume and tone once. Seemed like 80% of the volume roll off happened between 7 and 10. I changed to linear volumes and kept the audio tones and have stayed that way ever since. The volume roll offs just seem more evenly spread over the range of the pot.

 

Oh well, to each their own.

 

Willy

 

You know, I don't know much about it, but I've been thinking that the general consensus seemed bass-ackwards to me. Seems that the linear for volume would even things out. looking at graphs of how pots work, I can see where most of the action would be between 7 and 10 with the audio taper. I can't understand the general consensus at all, to tell you the truth, but then, I use my volume knobs all the time. I have a 5w tube amp. I turn the amp up loud, then work the volume and gain from the guitar.

Wouldn't linear be better for both volume and tone? I can't imagine why you would want the range of adjustment to be so off-centered in any situation. 5 should be 5, right? I think I would want just as much adjustment between 5&0 as 10&5.

Just my thinking, you know. Just sayin'.

[Whitmore Willy]

Wouldn't linear be better for both volume and tone?

Wish I had a good answer for you. I'm no electronics expert even though I make up my own wiring harnesses.

Everything I understand is through experimentation and is judged by my ears...(Yours or others may be different.)

 

It is my understanding that volume and tone are perceived differently by the human ear.

What I can tell you:

I have tried linear pots for tone. I went back to audio pots for tone. It seemed to me that with the linear tone pots almost all of the tone change took place between 1 and 3. They seemed to act completely different as tone pots than when used as volume pots. Maybe that's the "perception" that others talk about.

 

One thing I will mention is to consider what one pays for a guitar. If you are doing your own work and buying your own individual parts, a couple extra pots only cost a few extra bucks. Temping things together with tiny alligator clips, electrical tape and a minimal amount of soldering is a pain. However, it is not the end of the world and is easy to reverse and disassemble. Why not find out for yourself?

Hell, on an LP it's even easier. If you are just checking out the principle, just temp in 2 pots and one pickup.

 

Anyway, I still think Gibson and Epiphone got it right. Linear for volume and audio for tone.

I also use 50's wiring...Many still like modern. (Including Epi and Gibiphone)

 

Willy

[animalfarm]

I have tried linear pots for tone. I went back to audio pots for tone. It seemed to me that with the linear tone pots that almost all of the tone change took place between 1 and 3. They seemed to act completely different as tone pots than when used as volume pots. Maybe that's the "perception" that others talk about.

 

Anyway, I still think Gibson and Epiphone got it right. Linear for volume and audio for tone.

Willy

 

After a bit of unsoldering and alligator clipping (per Willy), I tried out Linear for Volume

just for grins. Yep - better volume response, more controlled/more......LINEAR!!!!

Ok, I have a new project...Change my Alpha A posts out for B's.

 

Gotta love this forum, great source of ideas that make you think outside the box.

[RaSTuS]

One thing I will mention is to consider what one pays for a guitar. If you are doing your own work and buying your own individual parts, a couple extra pots only cost a few extra bucks. Temping things together with tiny alligator clips, electrical tape and a minimal amount of soldering is a pain. However, it is not the end of the world and is easy to reverse and disassemble. Why not find out for yourself?

Hell, on an LP it's even easier. If you are just checking out the principle, just temp in 2 pots and one pickup.

 

Anyway, I still think Gibson and Epiphone got it right. Linear for volume and audio for tone.

I also use 50's wiring...Many still like modern. (Including Epi and Gibiphone)

I always buy my pots in lots of 6 or 12, take to them with a multimeter and make my own matched sets, they're not very expensive. I still use modern wiring, but set it up with independent volume control. I tried a treble bleed mod but got strange results, the volume between 7 - 10 was reasonably unchanged then there was a sudden drop to silence by about 5, there's not a lot you can get wrong doing a treble bleed mod, but I managed to do it.

[mud guy]

My 07 les paul custom and 08 dot came with alpha pots as stock. I think these are the stock pots now on all standard epis.

 

-cal

[Cap'n Greenfog]

Thanks guys, I'll be buying a set of Alpha pots soon. Linear volume/audio tone. Can't wait.

[Magneezo]

Unless you own an Epiphone from some time ago

recent Epiphones made within the last 6 years or so, at least the ones I've bought

already come stock with 'Alpha' 500k pots.

[Cap'n Greenfog]

Unless you own an Epiphone from some time ago

recent Epiphones made within the last 6 years or so, at least the ones I've bought

already come stock with 'Alpha' 500k pots.

Mine is an '04.

[Cap'n Greenfog]

I hate asking silly questions, but I can't seem to find the answer on my own. Sometimes when I'm looking at pics of people's rewiring jobs, I notice that there's a piece of bare wire grounding all the pots together. Soldered on the back of each pot. My LP doesn't have that wire. Not every rewire pic I see has the ground wire, but it seems like most do.

Might I ask, "What's up with the ground wire that seems to be optional?".

[Whitmore Willy]

Might I ask, "What's up with the ground wire that seems to be optional?".

Cap,

It's not a matter of optional. It's only a question as to how you do it.

 

See the solder points on the back of these pots?

Those are "grounds":

 

 

Just remember, it is done this way for production purposes. No matter how it looks it does do the job......(sometimes......most of the time , well , when ever.)

 

This is my running spoof about Epi stock harnesses:

 

 

This is a basic harness:

 

 

Willy

[dean2371]

My Epi has the capacitors connected only to the tone pots, with one leg on the outside tab and the other on the pot case. Why do some configurations like the photo above have the capacitor connecting the tone and volume pots? Which is best and why?

[Whitmore Willy]

My Epi has the capacitors connected only to the tone pots, with one leg on the outside tab and the other on the pot case. Why do some configurations like the photo above have the capacitor connecting the tone and volume pots? Which is best and why?

Dean,

As to your first question, it is a matter of preference. My personal preference is for 50's dependent. "Dependent" is when the toggle switch is in the center position the volumes work in conjunction with each other. Turning off one volume will shut down both pickups. "Independent" volumes is the opposite. The volumes are independent of each other.

 

As to the 50's part, it is the reason the cap is where it is. It bridges between the tone pot and where the toggle switch connects to the volume pot. It is the only way to do 50's.

 

For modern (stock) wiring, the cap either connects from the tone pot to where the pickup contacts the volume pot or it can be soldered to the back of the tone pot. If it goes to the back of the tone pot then there is usually a wire connecting from the tone pot to the pickup leg of the volume pot. This is the stock wiring used by Epiphone.

 

Clear as mud?

 

If you look in the DIY at the top of the Epi Lounge there are many wiring resources. This one covers the "basics":

 

http://www.dominocs.com/AshBassGuitar/WireLibrary-Gibson.html

 

Some of the others, such as the link to Seymour Duncan and Guitarelectronics, show the Modern version of the wiring that you are used to seeing.

 

Now, to the last part of your question. There is no better or best way. It is a question of what you like.

Each have their advantages and disadvantages.

As to what they are, we touched on them here: (read post #6)

http://forum.gibson.com/index.php?/topic/59310-g-400-deluxe-upgrades/

 

Willy

[dean2371]

Thanks Willy, that is very helpful. I think I understand, and feel some experimenting coming on!

[denthevetteman78]

Dean,

As to your first question, it is a matter of preference. My personal preference is for 50's dependent. "Dependent" is when the toggle switch is in the center position the volumes work in conjunction with each other. Turning off one volume will shut down both pickups. "Independent" volumes is the opposite. The volumes are independent of each other.

 

As to the 50's part, it is the reason the cap is where it is. It bridges between the tone pot and where the toggle switch connects to the volume pot. It is the only way to do 50's.

 

For modern (stock) wiring, the cap either connects from the tone pot to where the pickup contacts the volume pot or it can be soldered to the back of the tone pot. If it goes to the back of the tone pot then there is usually a wire connecting from the tone pot to the pickup leg of the volume pot. This is the stock wiring used by Epiphone.

 

Clear as mud?

 

If you look in the DIY at the top of the Epi Lounge there are many wiring resources. This one covers the "basics":

 

http://www.dominocs.com/AshBassGuitar/WireLibrary-Gibson.html

 

Some of the others, such as the link to Seymour Duncan and Guitarelectronics, show the Modern version of the wiring that you are used to seeing.

 

Now, to the last part of your question. There is no better or best way. It is a question of what you like.

Each have their advantages and disadvantages.

As to what they are, we touched on them here: (read post #6)

http://forum.gibson.com/index.php?/topic/59310-g-400-deluxe-upgrades/

 

Willy

 

What kind of wiring do i have if when it's in the middle position and the volume on the neck pickup is turn down i still hear something but very low ?

[Dougefresh91]

My G-400 has the most annoying volume knobs. I believe it's from '04. They drop off between 7 and 10, like you guys said, which makes playing quietly in my apartment at night a real pain. I feel like I'm playing that game Operation, where you try not to hit the sides and BUZZ. So, I'd want to get linear pots to remedy this, correct?

 

Here's some spaghetti for you:

Now I'm hungry.

[RaSTuS]

My G-400 has the most annoying volume knobs. I believe it's from '04. They drop off between 7 and 10, like you guys said, which makes playing quietly in my apartment at night a real pain. I feel like I'm playing that game Operation, where you try not to hit the sides and BUZZ. So, I'd want to get linear pots to remedy this, correct?

You want 2 x 500K Linear Taper pots, CTS cost less than $10 each, try and get the ones with the brass threaded section rather than the aluminum/die-cast ones, you can't buy better for anywhere near that price.

[Cap'n Greenfog]

Here's the pic Willy posted of a stock Epi wiring harness. When I pulled the back off of my LP this was exactly what I saw-

 

 

.....And yes, I agree that it could easily be compared to this-

 

 

I discovered that the git already had Alphas. At least I think they are. I didn't see a name, but stamped on the back of the tone pots was A500k. Volume pots said B500k. Linear for volume/audio for tone. I ordered my Soviet NOS PIO caps. .015 for the neck and .022 for the bridge. Took it all over to Tom's house. Funny, Tom knows nothing about wiring guitars, but understands electronics and can solder. I understood exactly what I wanted, but can't solder. Believe me, I've tried! I showed him a stock diagram and then a fifties independant diagram, and explained exactly what needed to be done. We stared at it all and argued and pondered for over an hour. He wanted to just undo the neccesary connections and move them. I said no, rip it all out and rewire it completely. He said it don't have to look all pretty and neat 'cause you can't see it once the back plate is on anyway, but I held out and prevailed. Here is the final result.

 

 

He got it right first try. No troubleshooting or having to resolder or nothing. I plugged it in and it worked perfectly and I have to say- It's like it's not even the same guitar.

 

My biggest problem was I had to run my tone knobs wide open all the time and still thought the axe sounded dark and muffled. Now I roll the tones back to 6 or 7 and it's just right. That .015 cap at the neck is tha BOMB! I play through the neck pup most of the time now. Whereas before it was muffled and the bass was overpowering, now it has a very pleasing GROWL that I love. Also, the guitar has more of a "real LP" sound to it. Is that dumb? I noticed immediately upon playing that, "Now, THAT sounds like a Les Paul!". It just sounds a LOT better, and paired up with the Champion 600, I'm getting some vintage sounds that I really like a lot.

Someday I will probably spring for a Hotrodded Humbucker set. Or I might just replace the bridge pup. Now that I've rewired the axe, I notice that the bridge pup is weak and sterile sounding, but not bad enough to go ripping things apart again. Thanks everybody! For $14.33 and three hours of my friend's time, I have a MUCH better Epi LP!

[Whitmore Willy]

Cap,

Congrats on getting it the way you want it!

Looks like 50's independent to me. (best I can tell from the pic) and Yes.... IMHO adjusting the wiring and electronics can make a huge difference in the utility of controlling a guitar and ultimately the sound it produces. The next guy may or may not even notice. He, however, is not playing your guitar.

You Are!!!

 

Once again, job well done!

 

Willy