An example of Gibson Customer service

[P90]

Sound clips! I am reliably informed that without them, it didn't happen.

 

Haha, possibly. ;-)

 

cheers for the friend add btw mate!

[BigKahune]

Dear Mr. Wright, Thank you for your interest in Gibson. Broken headstocks do not just happen. Headstock breakages can also occur when the neck previously has had only a small knock, with an unnoticeable crack in the headstock.

At a certain moment the headstock can then suddenly snap; also when putting on new strings for example. This is unfortunately not covered under warranty. I would like to suggest you to read the warranty regulations:

Stijn Vergeest

 

What a load of B/S

 

This is a well documented design flaw that Gibson itself tried to address in the 70s. Gibson went to a volute in the 70s because that 17º neck angle can break if someone just looks at it cross-eyed. The so called "Gibson Warranty" and "Complete Customer Satisfaction" - nothing but smoke and mirrors. I've seen enough to say damn straight - Gibson isn't careful enough when they pick wood for necks, and once they're shaped Gibson doesn't reject enough necks. Looking at unpainted (stained with grain visible) Gibson necks, you can see some necks come through with the grain twisting off the form in the area behind the nut - a prime breakage warning. Straight grain - especially behind the nut through to the top of the headstock! Even then, that area can be weak enough to give way under string tension.

 

I'm glad to hear you got this resolved with the dealer.

 

Lesson - pick a great dealer, because if there's a problem, your dealer will likely be your only avenue of redress, as Gibson won't give you the time of day.

[milod]

Big...

 

I tend to agree... if there's no obvious ding and admittedly a tiny "thing" may have happened, and the design (much as I enjoy Gibson-style design regardless) is relatively weak, how does one know that such a prior knock to the headstock did not happen yet in the factory, ergo being what should be a factory fatality rather than a "sorry, it ain't covered 'cuz you broke it."

 

Frankly were this 48 weeks after the purchase rather than 48 hours, I'd be likely to take a quite different perspective for my comment. But with no obvious dings on the instrument and a break 48 hours into ownership, it's a guarantee that a customer will not be happy - even if he/she did the unseen ding.

 

For what it's worth, too, I'd say that the Epi acoustics, AE and semis I've seen the past cupla years have been exemplary for general quality. But...

 

m

[Harpo]

You got your replacement so be happy

[charlie brown]

Why does the Gibson answer, sound uncannily like what most "insurance companies,"

say or do, once they get your money/premium?! Yeah, I know...there are always

"Exceptions!" But, they sure sound remarkably similar, in this case. ;>b

 

CB

[BigKahune]

. . . Frankly were this 48 weeks after the purchase rather than 48 hours, I'd be likely to take a quite different perspective for my comment. But with no obvious dings on the instrument and a break 48 hours into ownership, it's a guarantee that a customer will not be happy - even if he/she did the unseen ding. . . .

 

Good point M.

 

I know went on a bit of a rant. I love Gibson guitars, I just wish Gibson would man up on occasion. As CB said - " Gibson answer, sound uncannily like what most "insurance companies," say or do, once they get your money/premium?! " . . Now that hits the nail square on the head.

[milod]

I agree with CB's comment too...

 

Frankly I think somebody ought to do a better job for PR purposes even in form letters - although I've a hunch that in general these letters have been submitted to attorneys and that's why they read as they do.

 

m

[P90]

The weak joint thing - I was told this by people in the know and I read up about it on the net but I didn't want to include this in the original email as its a bit speculative. It was all ammunition if I never got a replacement and I took it to the small claims court. I wasn't phased about taking it further but obviously hoped it wouldn't come to that and thankfully it never thanks to the dealer who were spot on with me.

 

Like I said Harpo I have my replacement and an apology from both the CSM and the individual that dealt with my case so I am happy now.

[stein]

It would be good to also show for us the continuing responces by Gibson/Epiphone where the problem gets resolved.

 

Any warrenty, gaurentee, or advertising of such is only as good as it's execution.

 

I agree that as poeple, we should allow for mistakes and blunders as poeple, but we should also act as poeple. What I mean by that is there should be interactions between poeple rather than companies, and companies should back the POEPLE that represent them. My opinion is that this whole thing misses the obvious.

 

The guitar was sold by a dealer and the dealer is the person the customer did business with. The dealer had had already addressed the warrenty issue, and made the conclusion, and it looks like a case of CS initially stepping past that. So in practice, the warrenty (words) that came out of the dealers mouth both to the customer from Gibson and the words from the customer from the dealer to Gibson had no value.

 

And another thing about that (not just Gibson, but in a LOT of companies), is that if a person cannot look another in the eye and execute a business transaction or the words of a warrenty and policy, then it is worthless.

[Bluemoon]

Glad it worked out. That is one nasty break.

[BoyVader]

Glad you got it sorted....scary photos!!...I just got my Gibson Hummingbird...bit nervous to tune it now!!!

[charlie brown]

Glad you got it sorted....scary photos!!...I just got my Gibson Hummingbird...bit nervous to tune it now!!!

 

Nah, it'll be fine! His was an exception, not the rule...IMHO. I have both a 1954 Gibson J-160E,

and a new (2010) Epiphone (made in China) "Inspired by '65 Texan," and have had no trouble,

whatsoever, with either one. Granted, the Epi is new...but, it's been out, and used a lot, since

I got it. Once the strings stopped stretching, it's been very reliable, tuning wise, as well.

 

So, Go for it, Vader! ;>)

 

CB

[jnastynebr]

So what exactly is covered in Gibson's famous lifetime warranty? Not the pickups, hardware, frets, or neck apparently, so.......if the maple cap peels off the mahogany body? Is that covered?

[retrosurfer1959]

Ive never seen a guitar neck break because of bad wood or just because it was made wrong they break because somebody drops them!

 

I totally understand that you didn't drop it but that doesn't mean it wasn't dropped Gibson's warranty is like most it covers issues in material and workmanship not damage. In this case the store is responsible they agreed and ordered another one problem solved. I wouldn't expect Gibson or anyone else to replace the neck on a guitar that was a floor model and probably was dropped and damaged. if the wood would have just split on the top from improper drying or if it was built wrong then yep they should repair or replace it. In this case depends on what the break showed if there was a hidden knot or flaw Gibson should replace it if it got bounced then the store should have taken better care of it.

 

Warranties don't fix everything there was a interesting and kind of related story in the newspaper here in Arizona recently about a guy that went and bought a jeep three days after be bought it he tried to cross a river and got too deep submerged the air cleaner and sucked the pistons full of water and destroyed the engine. He was arguing that the jeep should be repaired by warranty because it was for off road use and quote nobody had told him that he couldn't drive his brand new jeep underwater. So he felt that they were screwing him and went on the local newspaper to try and make the warranty cover the damage it was hilarious here he is in the news because he through his own stupidity ruined a three day old jeep.

About half the people they talked with thought he was right and it should be covered. Bottom line it was not covered under warranty but it turned out all right for him because his insurance covered the damage as an accident because he didn't do it on purpose and they could not show he was negligent.

[ChanMan]

So, it would have been ok for Gibson to respond with threats of Fraud lawsuits?

 

I mean... if you can open with "I'm taking you to court", they can too, right?

 

Fair is fair....

 

Glad it's fixed, but it's a huge stretch to hit the manufacturer for the condition of a floor model.

 

 

My opinion; I would have... and actually HAVE.... handled it completely differently and gotten stellar results. New F-150, blown engine, and I dealt with the dealership. Never threatened anyone with a lawsuit, I was pleasant and understanding. End result: Ford Motor Company footed the bill for everything.... I was out $0. The dealership went to bat for me... handled everything.

 

 

/shrug guess there are different strokes for different folks.

 

[milod]

I tend to agree that a floor model light damage likely is the cause of the damage on the 'bird in this case.

 

Current Anglophone society seems also to me to be far too much into lawsuits. Courtesy and finding out real causes seems the better mode, although at times one does wonder what is being sold in stores of all types.

 

I do know also that I almost wish that children would be banned from music stores unless they can prove they know how to walk and how not to mess with musical instruments. I'm "old" and yet don't touch even a display guitar unless I've been given permission.

 

m

[charlie brown]

I tend to agree that a floor model light damage likely is the cause of the damage on the 'bird in this case.

 

Current Anglophone society seems also to me to be far too much into lawsuits. Courtesy and finding out real causes seems the better mode, although at times one does wonder what is being sold in stores of all types.

 

I do know also that I almost wish that children would be banned from music stores unless they can prove they know how to walk and how not to mess with musical instruments. I'm "old" and yet don't touch even a display guitar unless I've been given permission.m

 

 

What, you're not "entitled??!" How absolutely Mid-Twentieth Century, of you! ;>) LOL (Me too!)

 

CB

[BigKahune]

.

 

Let's totally forget just how thin that area behind and above the nut actually is. While we're at it, let's forget there's a relatively deep routed out channel for the truss rod in that area. Oh and, don't even think about the screw holes made for the TRC attachment and how much force is applied to screw in those screws. And let's not factor in any stress caused by tightening the truss rod. Finally, on top of all that, let's not talk about how many pounds of tension the strings put on that area area behind and above the nut. Sure. Let's just say that - disregarding all the work that's done by Gibson on that area behind and above the nut or that any of that work would ever apply enough stress to weaken the wood in that area - it's absolutely impossible the area behind and above the nut would ever fail unless some kind of unwarranted impact occurred to cause such a failure. Brilliant. . .

 

.

[milod]

Okay, CB, you got me started, you take the heat. <grin>

 

To be quite blunt about this one, it seems to me that one might find a very easy parallel to the anti-tobacco, anti-smoking drive worldwide, especially in Anglophone nations, and the decrease in civility.

 

Odd thing is I've made the same comment on my history/philosophy forum and found little disagreement, although a number of folks have suggested that I may be making a post hoc ergo propter hoc error in logic.

 

But the bottom line to me is not the tobacco itself, but rather the rituals that surrounded it in the workplace and elsewhere that people congregated at least from the beginning of the 20th century into the 1980s or so.

 

In fact you may be underestimating some of the age of my own training in "virtue," that is, how a man should behave in the company of men. Granted, this was something of a blue collar mode, but the white collar mode was not dissimilar.

 

One accepts a smoke if offered in meeting someone the first number of times, and, of course, one offers one's own. If one doesn't smoke, the appropriate response is, "I don't really smoke, but thanks, I'll give your brand a try." Then one need not do more than a token touch of the cigarette/cigar while handling it more or less as if smoking.

 

That's but one of the earlier 20th century "rituals" I'm talking about. Unlike mary jane rituals, these were quite public, at the workplace, conference room, mechanics' shop, wherever. After the 20s or so at least, females tended to be adopted into the rituals and that accelerated through the 70s.

 

Courtesy and rituals...

 

Then the anti tobacco "thing" got under way. It became increasingly not only acceptable but socially encouraged to say not only "no thank you," but also, "I'd rather you don't," and finally, "Only scum would use that filthy stuff" or the equivalent.

 

So... the tobacco rituals of friendship and cooperation were lost. Nothing arose to replace them. Discourtesy was encouraged by the anti-tobacco campaigns through the 80s up to current.

 

I'd say personally that I think institutionalized cultural discourtesy has been perhaps an unintended consequence of the anti-tobacco culture, but it certainly has encouraged that sort of behavior. That's whether it's a direct or indirect cause.

 

In fact, in the 1940s and 50s, such behavior would literally have been "fighting words" both in blue and white collar cultures. But if fighting tobacco made such discourtesy appropriate, the anti-tobacco habit of discourtesy certainly became culturally ingrained every bit as much as nicotine "addiction."

 

In the 80s and 90s, it seemed to me that women in the workplace took that discourtesy and intentional use of "fighting words" as a way to intimidate male supervisors and coworkers who would be considered automatically in the wrong were they to take issue with it. A male punching another male in the nose even in a finance office would have been congratulated were that to be a response to ... certain words I won't type here. But if spoken by a female? She got away with it.

 

In the earlier part of the century, often such events were defused by a tobacco ritual. Later on? Not.

 

I dunno. The last decade perhaps has had a bit of civility return, perhaps because civility "works." Unfortunately we've not seen a return of friendship rituals such as had been typical in the earlier part of the century and perhaps even since the mid 19th century.

 

I may be something of an idealist, but I'll never cease to believe that a bit of courtesy and civility seldom if every hurts, and it almost inevitably allows one to feel better about oneself even in an environment that in many ways encourages incivility.

 

<deep inhale> Wouldn't it be nice to have a replacement ritual of some sort that encourages a bit more civility and a deep breath before incivility goes too far and burns bridges instead of tobacco?

 

Okay, so much for the rant of the day. <grin>

 

m

[stein]

VERY interesting, Milo.

 

Sometimes, a little experience and perspective go a long way.

 

I think you make a very good point about the irony in what is proper behavior now, especially in the context of what we seem to have lost.

 

And, you DARE use the smoking issue to point it out. You have impressive journalist skills.