Please help me

[Coelo]

Hello everyone!

 

I have been wanting a Gibson acoustic guitar since I heard my friends Gibson about ten years ago. I cannot remember what model of guitar he had, but the sound that came from that guitar was like nothing I had ever experienced. It was full, resonated for a long time, and... I don't know how to describe it but the sound was complete. It touched something in my brain that just made me feel like everything that came out of it's sound hole was magic.

 

I am currently looking at Gibson guitars now and I am so confused. It seems that not every Gibson has the qualities I've described. For example, I recently played a $2,000 j-45 (reissue) and it did not have the fullness that I expected. It was also considerably lighter than the guitar my friend had. Although, the shape of the guitar was similar, the new j-45 did not feel to me like it had a "complete" sound.

 

Now, I've found a 2007 j-50 for $1900.00 with a very small crack located at the back of the neck where the shoulder strap pin is located, but that doesn't bother me since the store is giving a two year warranty on the guitar.

 

(sorry for such a lengthy post) -

 

What I need to know is: why does this 2007 j-50 have the full, complete, magical sound that I remember from my friends guitar, but the j-45 does not?

 

Also, is it safe to assume that ALL j-50 Gibsons will feel the same?

This particular j-50 is heavy, considerably heavier than the j-45, and it almost makes the j-45 feel... "toy-ish"

 

I think that I need help to understand why some Gibsons have the magic, but others feel a little hollow. Does it have to do with the weight of the guitar?

How can you tell if the guitar will be a heavy guitar or a light guitar?

 

 

Thank you so much.

[EuroAussie]

Hi, and welcome to the Gibson forum, you will get a lot of good, and varied responses here.

 

A few things I would say.

 

Firstly, no two Gibson specimens are the same, this is the beauty (and pain) of Gibson acoustics. They are hand made and because of that there will be tonal differences even between exactly two same guitar models.

 

Point being is that you need to play a few Gibsons, even same model to find the one that speaks to you.

 

You mentioned your friends J-45, do you know which year it was manufactured ? 70's Gibsons for example have heavier bracing so if made during that era it may be heavier. Also vintage Gibsons have had many years to 'open up' and that may have the perceived 'full' sound.

 

The other thing I would ask is what are you exaclty looking for in a guitar, what style of music will you be playing ?

 

If you want a 'full' sound then the J-45 is probably not the guitar. It has quite a dry, midrange and treble focused tone, its actually one of the most unique tones Ive come across in any guitar, but its not everybody cup of team.

 

When I think of a 'full' Gibson tone the Songwrite Deluxe come to mind. It has the classic Gibson growl, but also due to the rosewood back and sides it has a very full, complex tone with chocolatey overtones.

 

Best thing is to play a whole bunch of them and decide on the one that speaks to you. :-)

 

Oh, btw; if you want try the thread titled 'thomann jingle challenge' and listen to all the samples. Tell me which one you like the most without knowing what is the guitar, three of them are Gibsons. Such a 'blind test' might help to guide you what tone your are most after.

 

Good luck and welcome !

[ChrisA83]

Welcome aboard - you have a fun search ahead of you!

As EA says, no two Gibsons are the same, so you have to be somewhat careful with that. You may have just played a duff J-45, because that and the J-50 are essentially the same guitar, so I'd suggest trying some more to see.

 

Just a note to take into consideration: lighter guitars are generally perceived as being better quality. The thinner the wood, the more it can vibrate, thus giving a better sound. That doesn't always happend of course - heavy guitars can sound great and vice versa - it's just a rule of thumb.

[Spot]

 

What I need to know is: why does this 2007 j-50 have the full, complete, magical sound that I remember from my friends guitar, but the j-45 does not?

 

Also, is it safe to assume that ALL j-50 Gibsons will feel the same?

This particular j-50 is heavy, considerably heavier than the j-45, and it almost makes the j-45 feel... "toy-ish"

 

I think that I need help to understand why some Gibsons have the magic, but others feel a little hollow. Does it have to do with the weight of the guitar?

How can you tell if the guitar will be a heavy guitar or a light guitar?

 

 

Thank you so much.

 

Welcome to the Forum!!!

 

Chris and EuroAussie have both given you some great advice.

 

I'll confirm that you relly just need to play as many examples of each model as you can to find the one that works for you.

 

There are so many variables that play a role in the tone and weight of a Gibson and no two guitars will be exactly the same...

 

Neck profile and nut width will depend on when the guitar was made but as a general rule all new or recent Gibson Acoustics will generally NOT have a narrow neck.

 

Happy hunting and please report back to let us know how you get on...

 

[Coelo]

Awesome,

 

Thank you for the great responses so far!

I will listen to the samples and get back to here an let you know. A blind test is perfect.

 

Actually, my friend had a very heavy Gibson. I distinctly remember thinking (wow this guitar is really heavy!) It was definitely not a J-45. It was a beautiful guitar with inlays and some pattern, but it was awhile ago and I'm not in touch with him anymore. I'm pretty sure that it said something on the headstock, but it was definitely not a hummingbird because the color was not red or sunburst. I think it might have been a dove.

 

I agree that the j-45 is a dry guitar. I did like the sound of the j-45, but it was not something that really wowed me. It seemed like the j-45 would be an excellent guitar to mic. Then the trebly, dry tone would shine... But on it's own I didn't "feel" the guitar the way I did the j-50.

 

Now, this is very strange... The j-50 and the j-45 are the same guitar?

There must be something different about them because the two I played were quite different.

 

What I am looking for is a Gibson that will fill a room with it's sound, so that when I am singing with my guitar I can be sure that the guitar's volume will be there for me. I don't want to mic the guitar, just sing and play. I think that is what I mean by "full, complete" sound. The J-50 at this store was much closer to getting inside my heart than the j-45.

 

I could see the beauty in the j-45, but it was quiet, the bass strings did not shine the way the j-50's did.

 

Still, I have not played a Gibson songwriter or Dove, or Hummingbird, j-160, or more.

One reason I am thinking about this j-50 is because it is $1950.00 used. I shouldn't even spend $2,000 but I'm going to. I don't see any Gibson Dove's or any of the more expensive models for less than close to $3,000... which is completely out of reach for me.

 

Thank you so much for your help. This advice is really important to me because this is a lot of money for me .

I'll listen to those samples and keep looking at guitars.

 

If anyone has any more insight as to what makes a Gibson booming versus on the quieter side please let me know. It is strange to me that lighter guitars are considered superior, not questioning that statement, but now I really have no clue at all why the two Gibson guitars I've liked have been heavy compared to most other acoustics. On a side note, I tried a Martin today and it was a nice guitar, but it just felt flat. It didn't seem like the Martin had the range of tonality that Gibsons have, but maybe that is because it was only a $1300.00 Martin.

[EuroAussie]

 

What I am looking for is a Gibson that will fill a room with it's sound, so that when I am singing with my guitar I can be sure that the guitar's volume will be there for me. I don't want to mic the guitar, just sing and play. I think that is what I mean by "full, complete" sound. The J-50 at this store was much closer to getting inside my heart than the j-45.

 

 

What are you desribing is firstly a J-200 and secondly if you like rosewood a Songwriter Deluxe - thats what you should look our for first. A booming J-200 will fill the room and also scare some animals.

 

btw: there is no difference between a J-45 and J-50 other than the natural finish.

[Coelo]

What are you desribing is firstly a J-200 and secondly if you like rosewood a Songwriter Deluxe - thats what you should look our for first. A booming J-200 will fill the room and also scare some animals.

 

btw: there is no difference between a J-45 and J-50 other than the natural finish.

 

 

Thank you so much!

That is exactly what I am looking for. I really don't know too much about Gibson, but I know that sound. I'm not going to buy anything until I try those two guitars. I just saw the songwriter deluxe at guitar center for ~2400.00. I can't believe I'm even thinking about that much money, but if I can find that sound then it is worth it.

 

Scare some animals!

Lol, that's it!

[EuroAussie]

Is this what you want my friend ...?

 

 

 

Thank you so much!

That is exactly what I am looking for. I really don't know too much about Gibson, but I know that sound. I'm not going to buy anything until I try those two guitars. I just saw the songwriter deluxe at guitar center for ~2400.00. I can't believe I'm even thinking about that much money, but if I can find that sound then it is worth it.

 

Scare some animals!

Lol, that's it!

[ryanfender]

Hello everyone!

 

 

 

Now, I've found a 2007 j-50 for $1900.00 with a very small crack located at the back of the neck where the shoulder strap pin is located, but that doesn't bother me since the store is giving a two year warranty on the guitar.

 

$1,900 is way too much for a J-50 with a cracked headstock regardless of warranty. Actually, $1900 is way too much for a J-50 in perfect condition. The cracked headstock on a used 2007 J-50 should be the price below $1,000. I have seen used examples in excellent condition sold by dealers for $1250. If you ever decide to sell a guitar with a cracked headstock, you will not come close to getting your money back out of it unless you pay the appropriate amount up front which is usually 50% less than the going rate for a used guitar. The used guitar market for modern acoustics is not kind of cracks of any kind. There are just too many excellent conditions examples out there for sale to make modern acoustics with body cracks and headstock cracks hold their value. This is no where near as much of an issue in a vintage market. Be careful.

[ParlourMan]

$1,900 is way too much for a J-50 with a cracked headstock regardless of warranty. Actually, $1900 is way too much for a J-50 in perfect condition. The cracked headstock on a used 2007 J-50 should be the price below $1,000. I have seen used examples in excellent condition sold by dealers for $1250. If you ever decide to sell a guitar with a cracked headstock, you will not come close to getting your money back out of it unless you pay the appropriate amount up front which is usually 50% less than the going rate for a used guitar. The used guitar market for modern acoustics is not kind of cracks of any kind. There are just too many excellent conditions examples out there for sale to make modern acoustics with body cracks and headstock cracks hold their value. This is no where near as much of an issue in a vintage market. Be careful.

 

I wasn't sure of market values in the US, but that price-tag seemed awfully high to me for what is essentially a faulty guitar, I wouldn't stretch to that amount for a guitar in a compromised position unless we were talking vintage.

[ryanfender]

I wasn't sure of market values in the US, but that price-tag seemed awfully high to me for what is essentially a faulty guitar, I wouldn't stretch to that amount for a guitar in a compromised position unless we were talking vintage.

 

Yep, that being said, I would have no problem buying a guitar with a cracked headstock if it was repaired correctly. Actually, I would rather buy it cracked but unrepaired. Then I could have it done repaired by my luthier. The key is buying at the right price. For example, recently there was a guy on the Acoustic Guitar Forum selling a Gibson AJ with a repaired top crack from the bridge down to the tall. It seemed like a nice guitar and repaired properly. Retail price in good condition is probably $1400 to $1700. I think he started asking $1250 and eventually dropped the price to $900. I am not sure if it sold at this price or not but I haven't seen it recently. There are just too many used AJs out there in great condition to generate enough demand for a cracked AJ to hold much value. Eventually, as the price drops a buyer that wants a high quality "players" guitar will jump in when the price is right. It hurts sellers but thats the market. It pays to humidify and not drop your guitars on their necks.

[fermfs]

Hey everyone,

 

Seems likes you guys are the right crowd to ask!

 

I´ve been wanting to buy a Hummingbird for a long time. However, I found a Hummingbird Pro that is waaaaay Cheaper!!!!

 

I can´t seem to find any differences appart from the pickguard, the color finish and the shape which is more like a songwriter.

 

BUT they are both Sitka spruce top and mahogany back and sides—all solid woods, hand made, etc...

 

They both come with LR baggs Element system.

 

How is this possible? Am I missing something out?

 

Thanks to anyone that can help!!!

 

FMF

[ryanfender]

Hey everyone,

 

Seems likes you guys are the right crowd to ask!

 

I´ve been wanting to buy a Hummingbird for a long time. However, I found a Hummingbird Pro that is waaaaay Cheaper!!!!

 

I can´t seem to find any differences appart from the pickguard, the color finish and the shape which is more like a songwriter.

 

BUT they are both Sitka spruce top and mahogany back and sides—all solid woods, hand made, etc...

 

They both come with LR baggs Element system.

 

How is this possible? Am I missing something out?

 

Thanks to anyone that can help!!!

 

FMF

 

The Pro version also has a Fishman Preamp in it. Its a guitar aimed at stage and studio work. I am sure it sounds nice unplugged as well but thats the difference. The simpler non-traditional appointments and the electronics upgrades.

[BigKahune]

.... I have been wanting a Gibson acoustic guitar since I heard my friends Gibson about ten years ago. .... I think that I need help to understand why some Gibsons have the magic, but others feel a little hollow. ....

 

Welcome Coelo

 

You've got good advice here. I'll say, as others have, Gibson acoustics are produced with a lot of hands on work, which produces some variability from one guitar to the next. So you really should play a Gibson guitar to find out if it has work you're looking for. Try out different models and different tone woods.

 

Good luck to you with your search.

[jonnyq5]

Hi Coeleo,

 

I'm a newbie here too and these guys are right on with the advice.. There's a couple of things to think about before you buy anything.. Don't even think about paying retail for a new guitar in the U.S. at the present time..I think you will be able to find what you are looking for for $1500 or less..The used market is really depressed..Go to the shops and play the heck out of everthing that interests you..And don't fall in love with pretty..!! Buying an insrument on looks could cause you a lot of grief.Then look around at the used market and see if you find something that pleases you..I personally right now have several guitars..And a Love hate relationship with an 07 Songwriter deluxe studio..Be aware that these are incredible guitars but can be really precocious.. Paid around $2400 for it..Now I can't even get $1200 out of it..So..Do a Lot of playing and a lot of thinking before you buy..Good luck.

[Windwalker9000]

hello Coeleo,the hummingbird pro is not the same guitar as the the montana Gibson Hummingbird the braceing is different as well as the shape of the guitar not just the outward looks of the guitar. The pro is a way for the dealer to sell a lesser Guitar using the Hummingbird name I own a True Gibson Hummingbird so I know first hand. I also own several other top tier guitars such as a Martin D-45 and a HD-28 people say they are the same guitar that the D-45 only looks more fancy, WRONG the wood is hand picked and the very best that Martin has,, and it makes a big difference, in the sound and volume of the D-45. So do,, as some of the other people that posted recommended, go out to the music store's and play guitars to you find one that feels good to you, and sounds good to You,, You need to be pleased with the Guitar,, before you take it Home, it may take playing it several hour's at the store to be sure, but in the end you be glad you did!!!

[Stubee]

What I am looking for is a Gibson that will fill a room with it's sound, so that when I am singing with my guitar I can be sure that the guitar's volume will be there for me.

I've had quite a few Gibsons and still have three and if that is really, really what you are looking for I'd suggest a Gibson Advanced Jumbo reissue. I love J-45/50/SJ dreads and have had a truck full, still have an old one but IME almost no Gibson has the volume of an AJRI. A good one also has very rich tone, bass, strong everything. Yes there are some great banner vintage Gibson dreads--I owned a very nice one--but if you put, say, an excellent '42 J-45 or '44 SJ against a '36 vintage AJ, I'll wager that the old AJ is the powerhouse. About the only guitars I've come across that can really power along with 'em are vintage J-35s, and they are sure not in your price range. Just IME/IMO.

 

Owned three vintage Hummingbirds and played many many more old and new--I love them--and they'd typically not be what I'd call 'fill a room with it's sound' guitars. Wonderful guitars, not quite that loud. More to me an 'accompaniment' guitar, not a loud one.

 

Never owned J-200s but many fans of that model too and they are nice. I have never A/B'd a good J-200 vs. a good AJ so I defer to those with my experience with J-200s.

 

It is all a very personal choice. I'm lucky in that I've been around a large number of vintage and newer Gibsons but if I were in your shoes I'd take your time and play as many guitars as you can. Take a playing friend with you and have them play while you listen. Keep looking. If you find one that really grabs you keep checking it out.

 

I am a Gibson guy but IME they do vary more than Martins and much more than Taylors. It's obvious I like my AJRI but I've played others that were just 'OK', some I wouldn't buy at all. But a good Gibson is worth finding. I've had a ton of 'em but quit buying them about eight years ago because I like what I've got and have only found a couple that were in any sense 'better' and they were vintage and $$$. I've also taken my AJRI with me while looking at other Gibsons and honestly, my AJRI is a good one.

 

A good newer guitar will often sound better with some playing. Some vintage ones can benefit from some work to really bring out their potential but if you are new at it I'd stay with guitars that are in excellent playing condition to begin with and buy only from good shops/dealers.

 

It's not all about volume etc. The guitar must feel & look good to you or trust me, you will someday sell it off.

 

Want to add that I'm not talking about sound reinforcement here e.g. pickups, microphones, etc. as that's a whole 'nother story.

 

Have fun in the search and again, take your time and enjoy the hunt!

[JuanCarlosVejar]

Thank you so much!

That is exactly what I am looking for. I really don't know too much about Gibson, but I know that sound. I'm not going to buy anything until I try those two guitars. I just saw the songwriter deluxe at guitar center for ~2400.00. I can't believe I'm even thinking about that much money, but if I can find that sound then it is worth it.

 

Scare some animals!

Lol, that's it!

 

If possible try the True Vintage SJ 200 's the cost more but they sound like they have been played for years :).

maybe they have "that" sound youre looking fir.

[JuanCarlosVejar]

try the sj 200 true vintage . it costs more but it sounds like it's been played for years !.

[ryanfender]

hello Coeleo,the hummingbird pro is not the same guitar as the the montana Gibson Hummingbird the braceing is different as well as the shape of the guitar not just the outward looks of the guitar. The pro is a way for the dealer to sell a lesser Guitar using the Hummingbird name I own a True Gibson Hummingbird so I know first hand. I also own several other top tier guitars such as a Martin D-45 and a HD-28 people say they are the same guitar that the D-45 only looks more fancy, WRONG the wood is hand picked and the very best that Martin has,, and it makes a big difference, in the sound and volume of the D-45. So do,, as some of the other people that posted recommended, go out to the music store's and play guitars to you find one that feels good to you, and sounds good to You,, You need to be pleased with the Guitar,, before you take it Home, it may take playing it several hour's at the store to be sure, but in the end you be glad you did!!!

 

Oh yeah, I forgot its a completely different shape. Its the same shape as the Songwriter but its not the true square shoulders dread shape.

[Coelo]

That is a nice sounding guitar EuroAussie, that is without a mic?

 

I'm listening to that video on my phone, but it feels like that is probably what I am looking for. Is that a songwriter Gibson?

(nice playing too, btw.)

 

I'm reading every comment and taking it all in. Especially the recent posts about price. If I don't have to spend new then I won't. I've decided to slow down the search and be more reluctant to part with my money. I'm feeling pretty good right now that there is a guitar out there for me if I take the time to look and search, and try every model.

 

Thank you guys, a lot, you definitely saved me a great deal of frustration, cash, and dissapointment. I won't be able to try some of these guitars for a few weeks so I probably won't have too much to report until I get a chance to play them.

 

I'm taking all of this advice in, gonna play every model, for a long time, take my time, and not throw money out the window on sticker price.

 

The only thing that concerns me about buying something used (which of course is what I was about to do), is that I have no idea if a guitar is troubled or not. I know if a guitar sounds good and if it is easy to play, and I look for any buzz or dead spots... But I don't know anything about truss rods or necks, alignments... Ha, ha... I don't.

 

So, for now I'm going to just focus on playing more new models and hold off on buying anything. The guys at the music shops are gonna just love me!

 

: )

 

Peace, love, and beautiful music to all!

[EuroAussie]

That is a J-200 sunburst, and its a clip from youtube, not me playing pesonally.

 

I suggest yopu try the Thomann jingle pick the guitar challenge and have a listen to which guitar sounds good to you, might help you in at least eliminating the guitar you DONT like.

 

All the best with it !

[stein]

All kinds of good advise here. and I just want to add one point:

 

Looking for that guitar and playing lots can be loads of fun. It should be an absolute pleasure being able to, and trying to find, that one guitar, especially when you don't know what it is. Every time you pick one up, knowing, that IF it blows your mind it could be yours for the taking.

 

And, once you spend the money and make the purchase, it is done.

 

So, don't be in a hurry to fill the void, because that 2 grand or so you have in your pocket is what is making possible the pleasure of looking. Rather than letting the money fly out of your hands, use it as a resource for the fun of looking.

 

When that guitar is discovered, you will know and you will not only be anxious to get your guitar in your ownership, it will replace any desire to play others, as you will want to play the one more than the possibility of what you may find.

 

And, never shop if you don't feel like it, only if it is fun.

[Rambler]

Sounds like you are well set on the J200, but for the heck of it, this like describes the different Gibson models. http://home.provide.net/~cfh/gibson.html

 

RE other models you mentioned, a Dove might also work for you. Maple, like 200 but a square (dreadnaught) shape (at 16' maybe a little easier to grapple with than the 17' J200). Tom Petty and Mellencamp sound. The songwriter (rosewood) and Hummingbird are good strummers but a chunkier sound, less ring. AJ? Good guitar but more bark than ring, don't think it meets your criteria. Cheers, Rambler

[Coelo]

double post