marvar Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 Marvar... I'd agree except that it fails then to explain both the one-hit wonders and the artists who simply fall out of public interest... m I'm not sure I understand what you are getting at, those you speak of don't have the option of selling out- they have nothing to sell out. Or perhaps they are just the ones that slip through the cracks. This business is a strange one- but bottom line, it's about money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 But, how much of it, apart from obvious endorsements, is the actual "artist" selling, (as in the "Box sets," illustration), or the record company repackaging, to make more money off what's a solid commodity, already? Of course, the artist(s) will get more royalties, and that's fine...they should. Maybe it comes down to "degrees," or type's of "selling out?" LOL CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grampa Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 Making money with your art is not selling out, changing you art for money is. Like if someone told Kurt Cobain that if he would just seem less brooding and more nice he could make more money, and he changed himself. That would be selling out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 Yup. I think it's a matter of integrity. But when it comes to the entertainment business, there are more than a few perspectives of what might be "right" or "not right" depending on the artists' entire ... schtick. E.g., to me the whole "Kiss" thing was a matter of creating a stage performance. Frankly as an "older guy" when they came out, it was enough of a turnoff I never listened to the music. My assumption, almost certainly incorrect, was that if they painted up like that, the music couldn't possible be good enough or they wouldn't bother with that sort of production. Millions of younger folks did listen. In fact, Garth Brooks in one interview admitted he'd even done as a kid a gig where he was made up as in the band Kiss. So... as musicians did they sell out by putting on a stage show? If so, does a classical string quartet doing Beethoven "sell out" by wearing a tux? Or in clothing of the time in which the music was written? Or... whatever? Music is a performance art that is a whole experience for an audience only partly recreated by a video pointed at the stage, let alone an audio. Then there are videos. They're as old as sound motion pictures, btw, and the art of the videographer is added to the art of the performers. The music and lyric are how much of the production? I dunno how to guess that. A performer is a package whether he or she wishes to admit it, and whether he or she works to develop that package or not. E.g., let's assume suddenly my meager stuff becomes popular with a decent population segment. I will have to have various sorts of packaging, literally, for CDs or DVDs, I'll need to consider, or have someone consider, the lighting even for a "here's M playing a solo of," then some stills obviously for publicity purposes. Then... and then... Life ain't as easy as one might wish it to be, nor are decisions to be made when one is in any business, retail or professional or ... the entertainment biz. We may think a band or performer's PR effort may be inappropriate. That's true. But we may also not know why something is targeted. I guess I don't care to say someone is selling out unless they personally believe they have had their individual personal integrity sullied by their own effort. I can't forget accusations of Dylan "selling out" when he got into the electric guitars rather like he'd apparently wished to use at the beginning of his career... m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaxson50 Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 I remember watching a Dolly Parton interview, no doubt some would think of her as a "sell out" but she brought up a aspect of stardom and her way of dealing with it while keeping a piece of herself away from the public. That she wears wigs tons of make-up and fancy duds is no secret, but she said that she always did for a reason. When she is at the end of a tour, she takes off her Dolly wig and fancy clothes, takes off the make-up, her husband meets her with their RV and they go to National Parks and go camping! She said very few people ever recognize her! Brown hair, freckles, in jeans and she leaves show business behind..they have been doing this for years. She wasn't willing to "sell out" entirely, she shared a persona with her fans, she plays the part of "Dolly" for the public. But she has a private "Dolly" that she keeps private. That has kept her sane and it keeps her "Dolly" the little girl who loved to write songs, not "Dolly" the performer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zigzag Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 I agree with CB. When you start changing who you are and what you do to make more money, you are selling out. Also, performing art is what people who do live concerts and videos do, and that is what sells, and that is the reality. But it's primarily the music that sells and image should only support the music. Image can take away from the music, and that is unfortunate, because image is irrelevant to the music. Take away image, and all there is, and should be, is the music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duende Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 I have been thinking about this quite seriously, I would like to sell out by maybe doing a deodorant advert or something similar I imagine something like this... "sometimes when I'm playing a concert (cuts to a concert clip) things can get kind of ... (cue girls holding their noses in disgust) "ewwww" (back to me) " smelly! -that's why I use Mattalina deodorant products (close up on me smiling with three blonde babes around me and my classical guitar) it keeps me dry - as things can get hot! (camera zooms in on a huge pair of knockers) Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duende Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 I would make porn movies with all the disney stars that are over 18 now. I knew you loved granny porn Otton! Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zigzag Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 "sometimes when I'm playing a concert (cuts to a concert clip) things can get kind of ... (cue girls holding their noses in disgust) "ewwww" (back to me) " smelly! -that's why I use Mattalina deodorant products... Matt Matt, that's why they make soap! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duende Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 Matt, that's why they make soap! soap is so last year! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 I'd like to think that the music is the basis of the performance art. I don't. There are too many examples of great performers who lip synch because they can't hold a tune and studio musicians who make the records of a band. It's entertainment when you get into the big crowds and big cash, not the music that might keep a band making regional money or making a living in a niche music marketplace. m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 It's not "entertainment" (AKA the "Show") that makes "me" got to a concert. It's only the music, from the artists I like. Nothing more. To me, all that "show" is distracting. But, everyone's different. Maybe it's the "entertainment" value, these days...but, when I grew up, it was the music, first..."entertainment" second, or even last, that counted. But, things change... CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fl00dsm0k3 Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 make a coffin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 I have been thinking about this quite seriously, I would like to sell out by maybe doing a deodorant advert or something similar I imagine something like this... "sometimes when I'm playing a concert (cuts to a concert clip) things can get kind of ... (cue girls holding their noses in disgust) "ewwww" (back to me) " smelly! -that's why I use Mattalina deodorant products (close up on me smiling with three blonde babes around me and my classical guitar) it keeps me dry - as things can get hot! (camera zooms in on a huge pair of knockers) Matt Brilliant! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 I dunno... Maybe I'm cynical, but I figured if it were just the music, we'd listen to some sort of playing machine. Don't get me wrong, I'm not dissing live music in any form. I'm just suggesting it's something entirely different from "just the music," especially since one can't hear as well as with a good speaker set at home. "The show," even if it's a solo guy like the late Joe Pass or Segovia, or a longtime solo guy like Leo Kottke who's still performing is different from a music-only recording. The performance is different from the music alone. But if "The Music" is the priority, naah, I think the sound is better on a studio recording. m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 soap is so last year! How about, "instant shower-a bath and deoderant all in one". it would be in a spray bottle. For those times when you just don't have the time, or the energy. (show a wife spraying her husband). Yea, total opposite of the picture you paint, but you got to cover ALL the demographic if you gonna truly sell out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 I dunno... Maybe I'm cynical, but I figured if it were just the music, we'd listen to some sort of playing machine. Don't get me wrong, I'm not dissing live music in any form. I'm just suggesting it's something entirely different from "just the music," especially since one can't hear as well as with a good speaker set at home. "The show," even if it's a solo guy like the late Joe Pass or Segovia, or a longtime solo guy like Leo Kottke who's still performing is different from a music-only recording. The performance is different from the music alone. But if "The Music" is the priority, naah, I think the sound is better on a studio recording. m Well, I like the ambiance of a "live" gig. What I meant by "show" was all reliance on light shows, explosions, and "theatrical" stuff. It's probably just my "age?" But, seeing a performer do their material, and really getting into the moment, etc., without all that "Stuff," is enough for me. But, I'm easily "entertained," apparently. Recordings, "may" be better, overall...to the "perfection" of the music/sound. But, I still like "live," as much, or more. It's more honest, and/or "real!" That's just "me," I guess? CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duende Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 How about, "instant shower-a bath and deoderant all in one". it would be in a spray bottle. For those times when you just don't have the time, or the energy. (show a wife spraying her husband). Yea, total opposite of the picture you paint, but you got to cover ALL the demographic if you gonna truly sell out. Stein, combine our obvious genius for marketing I think we could be onto something! I think we could combine the music and toiletries together! I'd like to maybe have a classical guitar album with versions of Celine Dion's 'My Heart Will Go On', music from The Lion King and even an impassioned version of Bon Jovi's Bed Of Roses...you get the idea With his distinguished older man sex appeal, I vote we have Milo as the man in the shower in our commercial. While using our product, he is joined by his wife (a stunning 25 year old woman) , she pulls back the shower curtain and looks saucily at him (a Classical Guitar version of 'Bed Of Roses' plays in the back ground to this) It cuts to him close up "Mattalina toiletries...because it isn't how old you are, but how young you feel" (a cheeky wink is given to the camera and the loud slap of skin is heard as he cheekily slaps her ***) Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 Matt... Well, once upon a time I did have a stunning 25-y-o wife. <grin> CB... Yeah, I agree on the kind of "show" I like in terms of live music. It's the music and the performer(s) just playing and/or singing in such a way that I can hear the playing fairly well and I'm close enough to watch the act of creating the music. But even a solo acoustic guitarist, or a solo jazz guy as with Joe Pass, does do a performance that is a large part of what brings us to appreciate the music more. I liked listening to Carlos Montoya records, for example, but after watching him from the front row maybe 20 feet away at the same level, I appreciated the music a lot more than even was inherent in the music itself. That's the performance factor; and although that factor is multiplied by fancier presentations, it's the same thing. m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fl00dsm0k3 Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 how about play for three weeks strait play in a small theater in new york or las vegas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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