pippy Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Having become fed up with the (relatively) weak tone I was getting from a Lester whose pickups' reputation suggested it should have sounded better, I finally got around to soldering-in a s/h pair of Luxe 'Grey Tiger' P-I-O caps and was actually quite surprised - and delighted - by the difference they made. It's not always Snake-oil after all !... Perhaps I shouldn't be quite as much of a sceptic in future? P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riffster Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Yep, I recently bought 5 sets of Russian K40Y-9's and ho-ho-holy cow!!! what a difference, I used 0.015 on the necjk pikcup and the tone control works great. I have an original Tiger from the 50's but its value has drifted fro 0.022 to 0.033, yikes. And same here, I was thinking mmmmhh this is no snake oil.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riffster Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Perhaps I shouldn't be quite as much of a sceptic in future? P. Oh and by the way another product I was sceptical about was Fret Doctor, I thought it would not make much of a difference from the Lemon oil I was already using but oh boy, was I wrong. Every one of my guitars reacted different to it in a beautiful way. I am sold on it. It is expensive but it lasts for a long time and plus I pay more then that on a bar tab. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cam011235 Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 actually i am thinking bout getting the pots and wiring redone on a couple of mine just to see if there is a tone i might be getting..these things can make a difference i guess your tone will only be good as the weakest part..remember hearing EVH saying something along these lines and he modded his guitars to.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Plains Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 From what I've heard, it depends on the guitar. I've changed just the caps in a few guitars - it made a huge difference in some and no difference in others. ...and FD is the best! Everyone should use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dub-T-123 Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 Where's a good place to buy some legit caps? Now that I can solder I kinda want to throw some in my SG. I don't want to pay too much. rsguitarworks is right out. So ridiculously overpriced.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazzboy Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 I like the NOS Vitamin Q Caps myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damian Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 I thought Grey Tigers were endangered........ :unsure: ... Anyhow, aren't Grey Tiger caps simply G.I caps, therefore Motorola products ?? I agree that some upgrades do improve guitar sound, like switching Gibby zinc hardware for solid real aluminum.... And, for guitarists who don't use guitar tone knobs, changing the caps isn't needed...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted September 23, 2011 Author Share Posted September 23, 2011 +1 on the Fret Doctor comments. Anyhow, aren't Grey Tiger caps simply G.I caps, therefore Motorola products ?? Damian; I don't really know but also I don't really care. They are certainly better than the (unbranded) caps I took out. I was very sceptical before I fitted them but, as stated, was surprised to find they did, actually, make enough of a difference to improve the tone of the guitar considerably. What I will say is they are marked - in no fewer than three places - "Made In U.S.A." which would lead me to believe that these ones, at any rate, may not be as you describe unless Motorola has a capacitor manufacturing plant in the States - which of course they may have. According to the paperwork which accompanied them they were made by the 'Luxe Radio & Musical Instrument Co., Los Angeles, California'. Whether this is true or not matters - as far as I'm concerned - not a jot. They simply allow this particular guitar to sound better. And that makes me a very happy bunny. P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damian Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 NOS perhaps Pippy.............I'm glad they improve the sound........It's always good to learn about upgrades that work...... Your playing is already top notch........So are your Gibbies !!!!!!!!!!! It's time for you to do some gigs !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted September 23, 2011 Author Share Posted September 23, 2011 ... It's time for you to do some gigs !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! .. Ahhhh, well...............If only the general public shared your enthusiasm, Damian.... Back to the caps for a bit; Being slightly intrigued by this stuff, I've done a little bit of net-searching this morning to find out more about the Luxe brand. If you're even slightly curious about this then the comments might be of interest. They are a California-based company who appear to make the majority of their products in-house, although some components come from outside the U.S. Some of the capacitors are brand new whereas others are re-branded genuine NOS from the '60s and '70s...more of this in the third extract below. Here are a couple of comments by non-affiliated third parties regarding their products; "...the people at Luxe Radio & Musical Instrument Co. are doing everything to get their caps to sound close to the originals, so they are using the same type of construction. For example, the Luxe Bumblebee repro caps are vintage-masked, new old stock (NOS), Vitamin Q-style paper-in-oil caps from Russian military supply..." "... They are a supplier of NOS and RE-PRO capacitors, resistors, cloth wiring, spaghetti wiring and braided wiring. Most components are made here in the USA, but some are possibly made in China due to cheaper production prices. Some components are pre-fabricated and some are hand-made..." "...The Orange "Dime" Ceramic Capacitor is a Reproduction of the Ceramic Cornell-Dubilier .05 µF / 50V Capacitor, used in the Stratocaster from 1964 to 1971. These Re-pro capacitors were originally either late '60's to early '70's NOS Sprague or Erie capacitors of the same specifications, but with the original print cleaned off carefully, then silk-screened with the Cornell-Dubilier label of the specific type. Overall they did an amazing job and the readout's match..." "...The spaghetti tubing is made in-house as there is no one manufacturing this type of tubing anymore. I believe that they mention too that the machines are no longer available so they're hand-made!..." P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flight959 Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 Pippy, Are those the Caps I sold to you? Those are the same in my G0... Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted September 23, 2011 Author Share Posted September 23, 2011 Pippy, Are those the Caps I sold to you? Those are the same in my G0... The very chaps, Flight. Thanks for letting me have them! The chances of 'Honey' staying here are improving....LOL! I've just, this morning, realised that she has the '60s wiring plan. I'm probably going to try the '50s style as I'm more familiar with the way the Vol and Tone things work in that configuration (yes, Damian, I do use my tone knobs...LOL!). P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cam011235 Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 'scuse the ignorance but how much do they increase the voltage to? does it affect impedance? ..if it is higher does this increase the output by much and will this affect the tone on other ways? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted September 23, 2011 Author Share Posted September 23, 2011 'scuse the ignorance but how much do they increase the voltage to? does it affect impedance? ..if it is higher does this increase the output by much and will this affect the tone on other ways? I'm pretty ignorant about the workings of electronic circuits myself. AFAIK Capacitors of equal value should do the same thing. BUT...I'll try to give an analogy which, hopefully, explains the sort of difference I noticed. Consider two camera lenses, both with the same focal length and both set to the same aperture. They will both do the same thing in that they will have the same angle of view and will record the same image given the same position. If, however, one is a well-designed multi-element unit using the finest optical glass whilst the other is a simple, cheaply-made single-element design it will not give images of the same quality as the first lens. The resolution (sharpness) will be lower and various other distortions will be evident. The quality of the transmitted image will be poorer. Perhaps in the case of the capacitors it is the quality of transmitted tone which can be affected by the choice of materials used to do the same basic function? Just a guess. Apologies if I'm miles out...................... If you wish to read more then this article is quite useful; http://electronics.h...m/capacitor.htm P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cam011235 Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 I'm pretty ignorant about the workings of electronic circuits myself. AFAIK Capacitors of equal value should do the same thing. BUT...I'll try to give an analogy which, hopefully, explains the sort of difference I noticed. Consider two camera lenses, both with the same focal length and both set to the same aperture. They will both do the same thing in that they will have the same angle of view and will record the same image given the same position. If, however, one is a well-designed multi-element unit using the finest optical glass whilst the other is a simple, cheaply-made single-element design it will not give images of the same quality as the first lens. The resolution (sharpness) will be lower and various other distortions will be evident. The quality of the transmitted image will be poorer. Perhaps in the case of the capacitors it is the quality of transmitted tone which can be affected by the choice of materials used to do the same basic function? Just a guess. Apologies if I'm miles out...................... If you wish to read more then this article is quite useful; http://electronics.h...m/capacitor.htm P. that makes total sense i have worked in IT and it is the same with computer parts ..cheaper parts when made tend to take shortcuts to get the price differential and will compromise their operation no doubt if you have quality components you will get optimal performance that makes total sense ..i have noticed this when upgrading some electric components in mid range guitars it can make a lot of difference and to reiterate your performance will only be good as your weakest parts..i really must do a total upgrade on pots caps and wiring on mine i think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riffster Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 Where's a good place to buy some legit caps? Now that I can solder I kinda want to throw some in my SG. I don't want to pay too much. rsguitarworks is right out. So ridiculously overpriced.. I got mine from eBay directly from a Russian vendor, the issue with that vendor is that shipping is $12 but since I ordered 5 sets to fit all my Gibbies with a single shipping charge the each set averaged $10 which is not bad, actually I regret not ordering one more set. Look for K40Y-9 caps on ebay, there are several sellers with a value of 0.022uf and ideally 400 volts, the 1000 volt version is ok but they are larger in size. I used 0.015 on the neck and the tone control works great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chase1410 Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 Where's a good place to buy some legit caps? Now that I can solder I kinda want to throw some in my SG. I don't want to pay too much. rsguitarworks is right out. So ridiculously overpriced.. http://www.tundratone.com/ I have two original 1959 BumbleBee Caps that I bought from Tundratone..One is a 0.22uf that I bought for 40$ ( Went in my SilverBurst Explorer)...and 0.10uf BB Cap for 10$ (Waiting for a NGD for this one)....Real great dude, and the real BB's are just magnificent...I prefer them to the Luxe's by a fair stretch BUT those Luxe's sound damn good..real or not.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riffster Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 http://www.tundratone.com/ I have two original 1959 BumbleBee Caps that I bought from Tundratone..One is a 0.22uf that I bought for 40$ ( Went in my SilverBurst Explorer)...and 0.10uf BB Cap for 10$ (Waiting for a NGD for this one)....Real great dude, and the real BB's are just magnificent...I prefer them to the Luxe's by a fair stretch BUT those Luxe's sound damn good..real or not.. You mean 0.022uf and 0.010uf, just saying, before somebody buys the wrong value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damian Posted September 24, 2011 Share Posted September 24, 2011 Facinating thread.........I stopped using tone controls at age 18.....Perhaps I heard what I didn't know; that even quality guitars can have "less than stellar" parts........ There was no NET back then either...I did use VariTone knobs...I learn so much here from you all.................. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The RandyMan Posted September 24, 2011 Share Posted September 24, 2011 Consider two camera lenses, both with the same focal length and both set to the same aperture. They will both do the same thing in that they will have the same angle of view and will record the same image given the same position. If, however, one is a well-designed multi-element unit using the finest optical glass whilst the other is a simple, cheaply-made single-element design it will not give images of the same quality as the first lens. The resolution (sharpness) will be lower and various other distortions will be evident. The quality of the transmitted image will be poorer. Perhaps in the case of the capacitors it is the quality of transmitted tone which can be affected by the choice of materials used to do the same basic function? Just a guess. Apologies if I'm miles out...................... Pippy, As someone who learns things in a slightly different way than most people, thank you very much for your analogy with the lenses!. I'm not very electronically savvy, and don't understand a lot of the details of the capacitor issues discussed on this forum, but I think I have a much better understanding now of how they work and fit into the big picture (honestly, no pun intended). Thank you again! Randy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted September 25, 2011 Author Share Posted September 25, 2011 .... I think I have a much better understanding now of how they work and fit into the big picture (honestly, no pun intended). Thank you again! Randy Whilst I appreciate your thanks greatly I must point out that my explpanation re : capacitors is just that; an idea. I'm certainly no expert! But thanks again anyway! P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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