damian Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 It has always amazed me how different Les Pauls can sound, regardless of two from the same model and year, etc etc etc..... There are at least 400 combos and variations in Les Paul construction, and even more in after market moddings...................... Each of my Les Pauls sound different...Sure, a couple sound similar, but, in general, they sound and play very differently......... I currently quite a few of them........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A add9 Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 I never get tired of Les Paul's. They are timeless. I wish I could have one in red, one in blue, one in gold, one in flame top, one in quilt top etc. I am about to add a new American Standard Strat to my collection. Olympic White and Rosewood! It has always amazed me how different Les Pauls can sound, regardless of two from the same model and year, etc etc etc..... There are at least 400 combos and variations in Les Paul construction, and even more in after market moddings...................... Each of my Les Pauls sound different...Sure, a couple sound similar, but, in general, they sound and play very differently......... I currently own ten Les Pauls......Maybe more, I don't keep count........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damian Posted October 22, 2011 Author Share Posted October 22, 2011 I never get tired of Les Paul's. They are timeless. I wish I could have one in red, one in blue, one in gold, one in flame top, one in quilt top etc. I am about to add a new American Standard Strat to my collection. Olympic White and Rosewood! Ah !!!!! That's another thing !!!!! I didn't buy my first Fender Strat until 2008.....I now own a couple....None of them sound the same either !!!!!!! Similar, but NOT the same......Nice Strat you're getting......MIA so much better than the MIM ones...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A add9 Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 Thanks, this will be my 3rd Strat, but first in about 16 years. The only other brand of electric, Ive ever owned beside Gibson, and Fender, was an Ibanez.. Do you have your collection posted in any of these threads? Ah !!!!! That's another thing !!!!! I didn't buy my first Fender Strat until 2008.....I now own a couple....None of them sound the same either !!!!!!! Similar, but NOT the same......Nice Strat you're getting......MIA so much better than the MIM ones...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 MIA Vs MIM Fenders? Hmmmm...both made in "State of the Art" factories, both use same spec's, and machinery. Both have (mostly) Mexican workers...so, how are they "so much better?" CS models, "nitro finished" in finishing, maybe? I have both MIA and MIM Telecasters. Quality wise, I really can't say one is better than the other. The MIM is one of the "Classic" Series (a '60's Telecaster). So, maybe that variety, is "better made???" than the normal MIM standard series. All I know is, that the MIM I have, is excellent quality, overall. CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluzhammer Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 Let's see one is made in California, and one is made in Mexico. Whats the difference? I thought one was just an extension of the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damian Posted October 22, 2011 Author Share Posted October 22, 2011 MIM Teles and MIM Strats do have many spec differences, and many parts are not interchangable... MIM Teles and Strats are also made from multiple random pieces of wood and then veneered; This doesn't really affect tone much, but the metal parts are "mystery metal", and the PUs are of lessor quality..... That said, they're nice guitars, but the MIA Fenders in general for "pro" and recording work, are much better.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 Is this "random multi-piece body WITH Veneer" a fact? Wouldn't that actually increase the body production costs, as opposed to one or two piece bodies? Why would they do that, for "cheaper" guitars? If the multi-piece bodies are used in those that are opaque painted, how can you be sure the MIA's aren't done the same way? Mystery metal parts??? Which ones? Machine heads, tremelo parts? Are the MIM bodies, drilled or routed differntly, on Strats? Why would Fender do that...make different metal parts, for Mexican Fenders, when they obviously would get more of a break, on the costs, with increased volume, of what they use, in MIA componants, as opposed to making seperate "mystery metal" parts, elsewhere, for the MIM versions. ??? I replaced a pickguard, on my MIM Tele, with an "American" version, and there were no issues, doing that, at all. So, at least some parts, are interchangeable. I'm (really) NOT trying to be "smart-a$$," I'd really like to know, all this. Many of you, obviously, have more experience, with "Mexican" Fenders, than I do. So, I am really curious, about all this. Using multi-piece bodies, is less wasteful regarding tone woods, too. I always assumed, the cost differnce, was mostly due to labor costs, and "finishes." I agree, that some of the MIM "Matte" finishes, look "Cheap!" And, possibly, the pickups may not be Fender's best, versions. But, all that IS interchangeable, replaceable. So...??? CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Searcy Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 Veneer is cheaper than solid wood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 Veneer is cheaper than solid wood. But, if you put it on top of "solid wood" even multi-pieced solid wood, that's another production step. More cost! It just seems odd, to me, they'd do that, for "cheaper" guitars. Why not just make the transparent finished guitars, from 1-3 peice bodies, nicely matched, and the more multi-piece bodies, for the opaque colored finishes? Seems (to me) the cost saving in production time, and labor costs, would validate that. ??? CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S t e v e Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 It has always amazed me how different Les Pauls can sound, regardless of two from the same model and year, etc etc etc..... There are at least 400 combos and variations in Les Paul construction, and even more in after market moddings...................... Each of my Les Pauls sound different...Sure, a couple sound similar, but, in general, they sound and play very differently......... I currently quite a few of them........... tone is in the fingers...jus sayin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigKahune Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 . Many guitar manufacturers, including Gibson, have A, B, C, etc lines. Fender A-MIA, B-MIM, C-Squire, D-Starcaster. They also have instruments made in Japan, Korea and China. Yep - Starcaster starter pack - guitar, amp, pick, strap - the whole deal for $150. Great buy - http://www.amazon.com/Starcaster-Fender-Electric-Starter-Sunburst/dp/B00403NKAA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dub-T-123 Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 You guys act like California and Mexico are basically the same thing.. I'm not sure if you've been to California and Mexico.. At least recently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 You guys act like California and Mexico are basically the same thing.. I'm not sure if you've been to California and Mexico.. At least recently. I grew up in SoCal, Whittier to be exact, (which is East LA, and right next to what is "officially" East LA). That's pretty close to Little TJ. In addition, most of my formative young years I was is South Whittier (South Side, or, SSW). lATE h.S. was spent in Tustin, and then Santa Ana after. Fullerton is not far, but go deeper south into Santa Ana (at the time, was called SA, pronounced "essay") and it becomes more like Mexico and East LA. Amazingly, I have never been to Mexico. But My homies tell me it is the same. TJ is also a rougher place than most of Mexico. Have not been to LA in about 10 years. Where you from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dub-T-123 Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 I know all those places well haha I live off of the street Tustin and go to school in Fullerton. Go to parties in Santa Ana and Anaheim, etc. We call them "Santana" and "Anacrime" respectively haha I'm sort of inbetween cities but I think I'm technically in Placentia. Lots of Mexicans in all those places but that doesn't make them anything like Mexico.. Mexico has shockingly intense crime. California has crime too but Mexico is borderline lawless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 I don't know what exactly Fender is doing right now, but I know what they WERE doing. When it comes to the regular production, there is (was) no pure American or Mexican Fender. Both lines have some parts made or worked on by both places. In most cases, the bodies and necks were the same wood: bodies made in Cali, sent to Mexico for final sanding and paint, sent back to US for assembly for the American ones, or assembled in Mexico for the Mexican ones. Even some models in the custom shop could have SOME work done from Mexico. There are some parts, like the neck, that are different and would only be on certain product lines. The Bi-Flex truss rod would only be on American ones, The Standard (Mexico) with the plastic insert at the headstock, but then the Vintage ones would be the same for both. And a lot of these would use the same exact hardware as in tuners and bridge and plastic parts. So, in many cases the guitar could be assembled in the US using parts shipped from Mexico, or guitars in Mexico could use the same parts shipped from the US. I did, however, go to GC recently, and I noticed that the Fenders had different "vintage" style bridges, and was actually thinking they were much crappier guitars for the asking price than what I was used to. Perhaps, this is a bad move because what any Fender built guitar that was cheaper could be upgraded in the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dub-T-123 Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 I've read a little bit about that but I don't really know anything about it. The Fender forum never really caught on with me haha I have an American Standard Tele that I bought used. It sounds good and looks pretty cool. That's about the extent of my knowlege hahaha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damian Posted October 22, 2011 Author Share Posted October 22, 2011 Good points Stein........I'm keeping my MIM Fenders, but I'm adding MIA Fenders to my stable.....MIM Teles aren't bad at all..... My MIM two piece ash Tele is very nice....MIM Strats aren't really comparable to MIA Strats quality wise...They're nice, but....... MIM guitars are almost "butcher block" built now...I've seen factory pics, and have seen pics when folks refinish their MIMs....... Member RIC says multiple piece bobies are fine and I agree...But 6 to 12 random chunks glued together ?? Not for me............. MIM Strats (some) now are "select" bodies...We know what this means....And yes, the trems and metal hardware are now "mystery metals"; cheap alloys.....I'm not saying they're BAD guitars, just not QUALITY guitars...They play O.K., and sound right, until you play them side by side MIM vs MIA.....No real player uses a Floyd Rose system unless it's a real Floyd Rose... Once upgraded, my older Epi Les Pauls are comparable to my Gibby Pauls...But to upgrade a MIM Strat/Tele to MIA standards is almost moot and pointless....I'm not saying they're bad guitars, just that they're not all that great anymore.....It happens.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 I know all those places well haha I live off of the street Tustin and go to school in Fullerton. Go to parties in Santa Ana and Anaheim, etc. We call them "Santana" and "Anacrime" respectively haha I'm sort of inbetween cities but I think I'm technically in Placentia. Lots of Mexicans in all those places but that doesn't make them anything like Mexico.. Mexico has shockingly intense crime. California has crime too but Mexico is borderline lawless. HOMEY!!! I see you are living LARGE! Placentia rocks, and is not only a great neighborhood, but gives you quick and easy access to some happening places. I remember when my parents moved me from Whittier to Tustin (that's LA county to Orange county for those reading) it was a serious culture shock. I have a freind who is from Mexico and has family there and splits his time between here and there (Colima, DEEP in Mexico). He says many Mexicans are freaked out by the current situation. He describes there is La Zeta, and the Zeta killers. For the most part, they only kill each other and follow a code that if you stay out of it, they will leave you alone. Still scary to them, because the law can not stop them, and many have family that get mixed up with them and can wind up dead. It is very much like growing up in LA, in that either you are in the gang or you are out. If you are out, you do NOT get involved and they will respect you but you must not go against them or get involved. You can be very safe and in no danger at all, because they will tell you when it is time to go home and where not to go. BUT- that was a long time ago. Blades were more common than guns (although a gun would get you suspended rather than expelled). And, we were kids. Kids don't kill each other as much, and there was a code that if you weren't willing to fight for yourself one on one when the one you wanted to fight was, the gang would NOT back you up. Same for fighting with a knife: if it was just some stupid reason to fight and you were willing to fight and had no blade, the other guy had to be man enough to drop the blade as well. So, I feel like I understand it, but the stakes there in Mexico are MUCH higher than what I experienced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damian Posted October 22, 2011 Author Share Posted October 22, 2011 Don't mess with the ZETA !!!!!! ...... ....................................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damian Posted October 22, 2011 Author Share Posted October 22, 2011 Anyhow, home studio recording is one thing.........Pro recording is another..........The difference between recording at 16 bit / 44 and 24 bit/ 48 or higher is huge...........At the higher levels, folks can tell if I used a MIM Strat or a MIM Strat, as well as WHICH Gibby Les Paul I used............That's why I also say most Les Pauls do indeed sound different....They're supposed to................ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 Good points Stein........I'm keeping my MIM Fenders, but I'm adding MIA Fenders to my stable.....MIM Teles aren't bad at all..... My MIM two piece ash Tele is very nice....MIM Strats aren't really comparable to MIA Strats quality wise...They're nice, but....... MIM guitars are almost "butcher block" built now...I've seen factory pics, and have seen pics when folks refinish their MIMs....... Member RIC says multiple piece bobies are fine and I agree...But 6 to 12 random chunks glued together ?? Not for me............. MIM Strats (some) now are "select" bodies...We know what this means....And yes, the trems and metal hardware are now "mystery metals"; cheap alloys.....I'm not saying they're BAD guitars, just not QUALITY guitars...They play O.K., and sound right, until you play them side by side MIM vs MIA.....No real player uses a Floyd Rose system unless it's a real Floyd Rose... Once upgraded, my older Epi Les Pauls are comparable to my Gibby Pauls...But to upgrade a MIM Strat/Tele to MIA standards is almost moot and pointless....I'm not saying they're bad guitars, just that they're not all that great anymore.....It happens.......... Yes, yes. But, at the end of the day, it depends WHICH Fender we are talking about. There are cheap MIM Fenders, and there are some very good ones. Same for MIA. So, generally, a MIA Fender will be better and worth more at resale, but to judge a MIM simply on the fact it is made in Mexico and not MIA will not really tell what it is or how good it is. And, neither can one be confident that a MIA Fender is in fact what we would think MIA is, as it can be just as Mexican made as a Mexican one. To GIBSON's credit, when it says GIBSON on it, we know it is in fact MADE IN USA, and that whatever parts it would have that are not, they are not parts made elsewhere like China or made in a place to cut cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damian Posted October 22, 2011 Author Share Posted October 22, 2011 My kids were all MIA..........The quality control varies greatly among them........Hmmmm............ :unsure: ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damian Posted October 22, 2011 Author Share Posted October 22, 2011 Yes there are some tonal differences when you consider some options like the P90 and the active pups, but the basic LP all still sound the same..... Lemmings... Cork sniffin' lemmings !!!!!!!!!!!!! [lol] [lol] .........Like me !!!!!! ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damian Posted October 22, 2011 Author Share Posted October 22, 2011 Good post Guitarest...................... [thumbup] ...... But AAAAA flame tops sound much better than plain tops.....just sayin'.... [flapper] .....and kidding......:unsure: ....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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