Gibson Memphis Quality Control

[JkGriffin]

So the local store ordered a Gibson ES-355 for me and I got a text last Thursday... come try...

 

So I opened the case and right there... a beauty... then I started to look a bit closer... man, this was the WORST FUC***G new guitar I've ever encountered.

1. It had scratch marks on the binding from a file or something. I can live with that if they throw in a few string sets or something.

2. The importer didn't bother to check that the guitar was set up properly. Strings were way high.

3. When working on the headstock inlays they've (Gibson) made a mess of the glue and didn't bother to fix it before painting over it. Was really visible.

4. Before putting on the last layer of clear paint, they've obviously damaged the existing paint on the headstock. Did not bother to fix that either.

5. They've used too much glue on the frets as well from fret 12 downwards... take a guess if they fixed it before sending it out...

6. Rust on most of the frets higher than the 12th... imagine that.

7. The binding on the neck wasn't cleaned straight of paint after the paint job... not big issue, but with all other issues then I'm not leaving out any.

8. I struggled getting sound out of the amp... turns out the guitar doesn't work in bridge or middle position. I can strike hard and get some "pops" that's all.

 

Watching the Premier Guitar Gibson Memphis tour I actually started to believe that last guy when he said how thorough they checked the guitars before shipping them out and how stringent the control was I actually believed that worst case I could encounter a bad setup.

 

I even went over a few cheaper guitars to see if they were in this bad shape as well... just to make sure that I wasn't just being too picky because this is a far to expensive guitar really... but no. Not even on the cheapest guitars could I find that poor craftsmanship. I've never seen a Gibson in that poor state... ever...

 

GIBSON... WTF is going on????

 

So I told the store to send this guitar back, get a new one and tell the importer to open the case and check whats in the case before sending it.

So today I got a message that it had arrived, that it was better than the last one but that I needed to see for myself.

 

So the bright side... once tuned up properly it played beautifully. A slight intonation issue on the 5th string. String height was nice, all electronics worked. No glue spill on the frets... no rust on the frets... Still, there are something holding me back... and I need some input on this, so please....

 

As you may see from the linked pictures the logo seems like it was too small for the cutout. The white around the "G", on top of and under the "b" and under the "s" is there. It's not a camera flash.

You can also see from the linked pictures that there is a crack along the binding on the underside of the neck. I believe that it's the paint only, but can I be sure?

Again, a crack at the neck joint... will these cracks become worse and be a future problem? Are the cracks merely some good discount opportunities? Am I being too picky?

I'm thinking guitars at this pricerange should be flawless... Also, there is no "Made in USA" stamp under the CS 15XXXX serial number (six digits?) and the orange sticker inside the f-hole looks like it has been fittet after the guitar has been assembled because it's not fully attached. You have a flip you can use if you should (for some reason) want to rip it out.

 

[stein]

What you are looking at is the joints between the materiels...so just like the binding is a different materiel than the wood of the neck, so also the neck and the body are different grains, and also the logo is MOP while the surface is holly. So, as they age, even just a little, the finish may crack at these spots.

 

If you look at most Gibsons real close, MOST will have that, or develop that.

 

The pics aren't that good, the only one I can see clear is the headstock logo pic. There HAVE been some cases in the past few years of some guitars getting out that had real issues of the cracks being extreme, but this doesn't look like it to me.

 

As for the other guitar you got, it sounds more like it had problems before and was fixed and sent out again. It might have missed the whole QC process and got lost in the mix.

[JkGriffin]

The pictures are that small due to I had to resize them quite significantly to get to attach them...

They can be seen better in this thread, 9th post:

Marshall Road House Forum

 

You can clearly see a white line just under the binding of the neck... it goes from the body and almost all the way to the headstock.

I know such thing can occur, but on a brand new guitar... no VOS, roadworn, aged or anything...

[stein]

The pictures are that small due to I had to resize them quite significantly to get to attach them...

They can be seen better in this thread, 9th post:

Marshall Road House Forum

 

You can clearly see a white line just under the binding of the neck... it goes from the body and almost all the way to the headstock.

I know such thing can occur, but on a brand new guitar... no VOS, roadworn, aged or anything...

I see. It looks like it might be a problem.

 

On the guitars I have seen that have developed issues, (I must say I have only seen them on this forum-not in person), the cracks that developed along the neck were not exactly on the binding, but below, like yours.

 

Also, where the heel meets the body, the crack appears not straight but a little crooked. It looks a little excessive for a new guitar.

 

It is hard for me to say, especially from pics over the net. The headstock pic as it is now, THAT is what you can expect the "perfect" ones you refer to to look like a few years down the road. Most don't notice because you have to look hard.

 

Being realistic, it IS one of those things where you would want to have the guitar checked out by experts in person rather than over the web, because it MAY be a problem developing, or it may not. Opinions over the web won't matter. The question of the guitar meeting YOUR standards is a personal one. If you decide it is OK for you as it is, you might have it checked so there is a record of it in case it gets much worse, or at least get an "official" word it is supposed to be OK. Also, if it doesn't meet your standards, there is no reason you should be forced to keep it.

 

I think a good rule of thumb for a guy in your shoes might be to expect to see very small hairline cracks at some of the joints. You might not even notice them unless you look for them, and the ones that don't, they will at some point. That will save you the trouble of rejecting a lot of guitars to find one that doesn't only to find out they develop in time (on any guitar). But I would not expect them all to look like what I see in the pics you have shown.

[JkGriffin]

Some beautymarks are to be expected... although the only beautymarks I have on my Les Paul Std 2007 is the ones I made myself...

Is the property of the paint such that it will crack more easy than what is on Standard guitars?

 

I'm having a VOS being sent from another guitarstore one hour drive away from here... this one with Bigsby.

I tried it before but didn't do a proper check of the finish and whatnot... but I know it plays great...

 

I'm guessing that if that guitar dont meet the expectations then I'll wait until I stumble across something nice... used or new.

My gut feeling isn't where it should be for this guitar...

 

Really a shame that Gibson allows guitars like that to leave the factory...

 

Thanks for reply by the way.

[stein]

Some beautymarks are to be expected... although the only beautymarks I have on my Les Paul Std 2007 is the ones I made myself...

Is the property of the paint such that it will crack more easy than what is on Standard guitars?

 

 

 

It should be pretty much the same for as your other Gibson. It may vary from guitar to guitar, and of corse depending on what you subject it too, how old it is, etc. Gibson makes efforts to keep the finishes thin, so they may do it more than other brands that use nitro, and certainly more than poly finished guitars. They use the same finish on the Custom guitars as they do the Standard.

[BigKahune]

.

 

When was the guitar made? . 2011?

 

It left the factory some time last year and was stored somewhere. The cause of some the problems you complain about could easily be due to the environment and handling the guitar was subjected to after it left the factory - the setup, inlays, binding lines, cracks, scratches and rust. The glue on the fretboard and the binding not being scrapped clean are definitely a factory issues. Non working electronics getting out of the factory is unlikely, but there have been troubles reported with the 3-way switches here over the last year. These three spots - fretboard, binding and the 3-way switch - are trouble spots for Gibson since the Nashville 2010 flood, with plenty of posts about them here on these forums. Unfortunately buyers need to be aware of what problem areas to look for when making a purchase.

 

 

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[JkGriffin]

.

 

When was the guitar made? . 2011?

 

It left the factory some time last year and was stored somewhere. The cause of some the problems you complain about could easily be due to the environment and handling the guitar was subjected to after it left the factory - the setup, inlays, binding lines, cracks, scratches and rust. The glue on the fretboard and the binding not being scrapped clean are definitely a factory issues. Non working electronics getting out of the factory is unlikely, but there have been troubles reported with the 3-way switches here over the last year. These three spots - fretboard, binding and the 3-way switch - are trouble spots for Gibson since the Nashville 2010 flood, with plenty of posts about them here on these forums. Unfortunately buyers need to be aware of what problem areas to look for when making a purchase.

 

 

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The guitar was made in 2011... both of them actually.

And yeah, I do see that poor storage can cause these issues... however, I would expect to see things like that on other guitar brands from that importer then as well, which I don't. I've never seen these things on any guitars of any brand before, but suddenly to high-end Custom Shop Gibson ES-355 from Memphis... makes me wonder.

From experience I'm pretty confident that they never open the cases before shipping it to stores all over Scandinavia. So many Gibson guitars reaches the stores with really lousy setup... not that I blame Gibson for that because I know a good setup in Memphis may be a lousy setup in Norway... slightly different climate you may say...

 

I remember that Nashville 2010 flood... but what is the main reason for those three trouble spots for Gibson since then?

[Sunburst PB]

I think the title of the post says it all, Memphis Quality Control. There is a difference between what is produced in the Memphis Custom Shop and what is produced in the Nashville Custom Shop. In fact I believe that is why the Historics are made in the Nashville CS. The Nashville CS microchips their guitars while the Memphis CS does not.

 

I custom ordered an ES-355 which was built in the Nashville CS and it turned out spectacular and flawless. I checked out some ES-335/355s in GC before ordering and did notice finish issues that I was a little disturbed by, most common were the cracks in the neck bindings at the frets. When I got my guitar I checked it out very closely and found no flaws in the binding and the headstock shows no sloppiness like what your photo shows.

 

Hope you like your new ax when you get it.

[BigKahune]

.... I remember that Nashville 2010 flood... but what is the main reason for those three trouble spots for Gibson since then?

 

I didn't mean to say that the flood was a reason for the trouble spots. For the most part, Gibson had a lot of success in the last decade and their guitars were of good and even quality. But, IMO using the flood is a starting point, more QC issues began cropping up. There were problems with improperly dried wood, and my guess is that as Gibson tried to catch up with back logged orders caused by the Nashville plant shut down, the production time was possibly sped up a bit too much. Whatever the reasons, in the last year or so there have been posts here concerning fretboard issues, cracks in the binding and along the binding/wood seams, finish issues, and 3-way switch issues (which might have actually been a supplier problem).

 

 

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[bobouz]

FWIW - This past weekend I purchased one of the ES-335 P90-equipped models made exclusively for Guitar Center by the Memphis shop. It was manufactured in December of 2011, and the build quality is very high.

[badbluesplayer]

If it was me, I would not buy that guitar.

 

Nobody can predict what will happen to the guitar as it ages. We can only guess what might happen based on what we've seen in the past.

 

There are two things about the guitar that MAY be a problem. The first is the crack along the length of the neck just below the binding. There have been a lot of problems like that with ES guitars coming out of Memphis. It appears to be cracking along the joint between the neck wood and the fretboard. This is likely due to inconsistent moisture between the two woods at the time of manufacture.

 

The crack between the neck and the body is a little suspicious. Probably just a depression in the finish where it wasn't sanded well. Can't tell for sure.

 

They didn't do all that great a job on the headstock. I agree.

 

My advice is don't buy it. You deserve a better guitar. Tell 'em to keep shipping them over until they get a good one.

 

[martinh]

This has been along running debate, but I am still a little disturbed in the difference between what Gibson evidently considers to be an acceptable build quality, and what the consumer expects from a Gibson . The evident philosophy that the company can "inspect in" quality at the end is simply not working. My 2011 ES335 arrived with red overspray all over the binding on the butt end of the neck. Other than that, the instrument was OK, and I'm not obsesssed with appearance, so I let it go. However I cannot understand how any "inspector" could miss the fact that a part that was supposed to be white was mostly red! I am old enough to remeber the Norlin era , and Gibson losing its reputation for quality. I can't help but fear that the Harvard Business School mentality of "low production costs above all" that sems to be prevailing in the company now will lead to a similar collapse.

[JkGriffin]

Indeed... I did however acquire an ES... more precisely a Gibson Custom Shop ES-355 V.O.S with Bigsby.

I do not like that VOS finish, but I found that by the means of polishing that VOS stuff will wear off... underneath is nice and shiny... although not as "flashy" as the Glossy models... which I can appreciate.

 

Unlike the other ES-355 I've tried this one feels like it's made of wood instead of crispy plastic.

It's VOS, but there is no glue spills, no ugly marks (that can't be polished away) and no cracks... both pickups, pickup selector switch, volume and tone controls works flawlessly (incredible that it needs to be pointed out).

 

Here it is with my AFD100 in the background... Just to show off a Marshall stack... but the guitar comes more to it's right using my 65amps Lil' Elvis or my future Fender Deluxe Reverb... or Twin

 

Taken with my mobilephone... not very good picture... but I do believe this is a keeper...

[j45nick]

Taken with my mobilephone... not very good picture... but I do believe this is a keeper...

 

 

Very nice. Congratulations!

[D-poland]

I'll speculate a little! your from norway, gibson is in nashville or memphis so your git probably had a lengthy high humidity boat ride or a high altitude plane ride! also was it shipped in the winter/ really cold temps? If I'am not mistaken all those events aren't good for a wood product trying to acclimate to all the different conditions?! SOOO could these problems have occured after they left gibson??

[JkGriffin]

Very nice. Congratulations!

Thanks

 

I'll speculate a little! your from norway, gibson is in nashville or memphis so your git probably had a lengthy high humidity boat ride or a high altitude plane ride! also was it shipped in the winter/ really cold temps? If I'am not mistaken all those events aren't good for a wood product trying to acclimate to all the different conditions?! SOOO could these problems have occured after they left gibson??

Theoretically yes... except the glue spillage. However, I would believe that they travel in their hardcases which in turn is packed inside a cardboard box. And Gibson knows how to send a guitar.

Also, there are several other companies sending guitars from distant places who have a very different climate than Norway... Fender, Collings, Epiphone, Other Gibsons, Ibanez, Takamine, Tokai, Edwards... I doubt that all the rest pays premium shipping rates so that their products are stores in controlled environments... still they manage to get quality products over. And Gibson obviously because the guitar I ended up with is in really good shape.

[TDMC]

What Quality control. I have always owned Gibson guitars. I bought my first new Gibson, a Les Paul Custom in 1978 for $714.00.

This guitar might have been built during the dreaded Norlin period but I have used it for thirty-four years, the finish has worn off the neck but still as solid

as the day I left the music store. That's why I buy Gibson, because I want quality.

 

So, imagine my disgust in buying a new BB King 355...one word: sloppy.

Mass production was written all over it, scratch's, scuff marks on finish, paint underspray on serial numbers, and the dead give away, someone on the line forgot to

put the tonal cap cover on. Sloppy.

 

Gibson is pushing production and numbers over quality and respect for their product, For them to pass the guitar I purchased tells me they don't care what goes out.

 

Market share and reputation can be lost very easily, its time Gibson woke up. Im disgusted.

[texasdw]

It's hard for me to see the OP's photos, so I won't comment on that (finish issues, cracks, etc). I can say however that I've bought 3 high end Gibsons in the last year (actually a 335 is currently on this site as a "NGD" thread). All were flawless.

 

BUT, every one needed a setup when I bought it. In fact, with each I bought it - then drove it straight to the tech. Not home, not to a gig, nowhere but the tech. For sure, I use a heavier guage string than all of these ship with so that's part of the reason. But new Gibsons just need to be set up. I do NOT consider this to be a "flaw" or shoddy QA. The nut for example, is always cut too shallow. That's pretty consistent. But I think that's at least in part intentional so that the buyer can have some material to work with if they want to go deeper, or leave it shallow, or change to a different string gauge.

 

Of course, it could be that I'm just rationalizing for Gibson . But I don't think so. Even IF you think the guitar plays well when you buy it - you'll be amazed at what a good tech can do for it when he knows what you are looking for. If you're gonna spend 3 grand on a guitar go ahead and spend the extra $60 to make it play the way you want.

[RSmith]

I have received my CS 355 VOS Bigsby bought from Ebay all the way to Finland during winter.

It was minus 20 Celsius winter time, extra dry air.

I was sure guitar will die during quite long path, as package was even lost in between, not insured, all that sucking stuff.

It is Memphis model, 2007 or 2009 not quite sure.

Yes, it doesn't have PRS level finish, but it has own charm of axe being made somehow traditionally.

No actual flaws, no cracks, practically perfect axe (thanks to honest seller who didn't sell me junk, it was a bit used guitar).

IMO it is great axe when it comes in condition as mine, although for perfectionist all together details are less ideal than by real high-end makers as Thorn, Suhr or Anderson.

I have CS Les Paul Custom, '59 Reissue, CS SG Elegant, CS Firebird V and CS SJ200 Elite acustic.

All axes are as perfect as Gibson can ever make and unfortunately below custom shop Gibson is way less than ideal.

For nostalgic purposes I keep them, although I have several much better guitars in general.

Conclusion: Gibson sucks big time, but as long as guys like me will continue to buy they will deliver lot of shitty axes among few gems.

When they are good, well, thats what we love in Gibbie

[IanHenry]

Well, if it was me, I would not buy the guitar, your not happy with it now, so that situation is hardly likely to change in the future. I can't understand the disparity in quality, I have a 2010 built ES335, and it's absolutely flawless.

 

Ian.