Since I Been Loving You

[nrand]

Can anybody tell what Jimmy Page was using for the original recording of this track?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bkjv9SscotY

I think it might be the same as he used on this video but I cannot be sure. He seemed to change around a lot on his live work.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgd-eOWJ8oI

I want to find a set of these pups if possible.

[LarryUK]

It's not the pick ups. It's in the hands. Forget changing the p'ups and get more emotion in your playing.

I've never changed a p'up. It's all hype unless you play a clean sound, like Jazz etc. Some say their new p'up has more output, Well turn your amp up instead,

[nrand]

It's not the pick ups. It's in the hands. Forget changing the p'ups and get more emotion in your playing.

I've never changed a p'up. It's all hype unless you play a clean sound, like Jazz etc. Some say their new p'up has more output, Well turn your amp up instead,

 

I appreciate what you are saying, as I am a pretty experienced player - 25 years or more. I am seeking to approximate the sound using another guitar that has similar construction and woods as an LP, and a set of these pups. I also know he used a variety of guitars - even Telecasters. I am also a bit of an information junkie. . . .

[buliwyf]

The live version from "The Song remains the Same" is my absolute #1 all time favorite tune,tone,song,solo and what he is feeling while he is playing is very evident if you are watching it.I dont know what he used on the album track but obviously in the movie it,s his LP and as Lashurst mentioned you would also need Pages hands. Jimmy Page is god!Oh yea I forgot Thank you NrandI just got up a few minuites ago made coffe and found your post and what could be better than listening

to the live video of Zeppelin you posted first thing in the morning (could help my whole day) Thanks!

[nrand]

The live version from "The Song remains the Same" is my absolute #1 all time favorite tune,tone,song,solo and what he is feeling while he is playing is very evident if you are watching it.I dont know what he used on the album track but obviously in the movie it,s his LP and as Lashurst mentioned you would also need Pages hands. Jimmy Page is god!Oh yea Edit I forgot thanks NrandI just got up a few minuites ago made coffe and found your post and what could be better than listening

to the live video of Zeppelin you posted first thing in the morning (could help my whole day) Thanks!

 

Was this his 59 LP? I saw them live in 75 or 76 and he had a few guitars that night - they played for 4 hours.

[djroge1]

Obviously in the movie he has a LP. Somewhere along the way I also read that he would often place his pups in out of phase and possibly in series for parts of this song. You should investigate the Jimmy Page wiring setup with two humbuckers and four push/pull pots.

 

Also, I respectfully disagree that changing pups serves no purpose except for clean playing. I have heard the difference and I don't always (in fact seldom) play clean.

 

There used to be a guy on here, Jesse who was a JP expert. He plays in a LZ tribute band out in California.

[damian]

I appreciate what you are saying, as I am a pretty experienced player - 25 years or more. I am seeking to approximate the sound using another guitar that has similar construction and woods as an LP, and a set of these pups. I also know he used a variety of guitars - even Telecasters. I am also a bit of an information junkie. . . .

 

He used a Les Paul through a small amp..........Read up on "Jimmy Page Guitar Wirings." There'a a couple of variations on the J.P. wirings,

 

but there is one that is the wiring on his "#1" or "#2" L.P. for that song........( As I understand it....).........

 

Jimmy Page Les Paul wirings can be done with the Gibby 4 conductor 57 Classics and the various Gibby Burstbuckers............

 

Gotta say though, "Since I've Been Loving You" sounds like a regular Les Paul.........

[Rabs]

Obviously in the movie he has a LP. Somewhere along the way I also read that he would often place his pups in out of phase and possibly in series for parts of this song. You should investigate the Jimmy Page wiring setup with two humbuckers and four push/pull pots.

 

Also, I respectfully disagree that changing pups serves no purpose except for clean playing. I have heard the difference and I don't always (in fact seldom) play clean.

 

There used to be a guy on here, Jesse who was a JP expert. He plays in a LZ tribute band out in California.

Check this site.. goes through some of his guitars.. LP no1 is the second one

http://wholelottaled.webs.com/guitars.htm

 

Gibson Les Paul "No. 1"

Early History

 

Purchased from Joe Walsh for $500 in April 1969. The transaction took place in San Francisco that month during the Winterland Ballroom and Fillmore West performances. Based on audio, the guitar was first used for the April 27th perfomance at the Fillmore as you can hear the pickup switch being used as a kill switch during I Can't Quit You Baby, How Many More Times, and As Long As I Have You. At the April 26th performance at the Winterland Ballroom he is still doing volume swells during the certain bits of the afformentioned songs which he only did on the Telecaster. The tone is consistent throughout the show leading to the conclusion the LP probably didn't make it's debut until the next night, though it's hard to be precise without pictures.

 

The model year of the guitar, while not that important to most people, probably not even Jimmy, has been widely disputed and incorrectly presented for decades. Since there was about a decade from when the guitar was made and sold to Page, nothing can be confirmed completely. The general consensus is a '59 model, not a '58. The best scientific evidence if you will, were measurements taken by Gibson when the guitar was replicated in 2003 that apparently fit those of a '59 model best. Less perfect evidence would the double white bridge pickup which would clearly point to a '59 or early 1960 model as those were the only years that used double white bobbins. That is less perfect because we don't know if that's the original pickup as Page wasn't the original owner. While it's unlikely any previous owner used and abused the guitar to the extent Page did, components can still fail. For all intents and purposes, let's say it was the original pickup, then it's likey a '59 or early '60. There is no serial number on the guitar, it was likely lost after the neck was shaved to a thin eliptical profile which was done prior to Page buying it. Page, since the mid 70's occasionally has referred to his #1 as a '59.

 

Wiring Another area of myths and complete misinformation is the guitar's wiring. During Led Zeppelin the guitar had stock wiring, no wiring mods or push pulls. During the 1980s, both his #1 and #2 Les Pauls had wiring modifications done which were widely reported since. Unforunately though, many think those mods were doen during Zeppelin and the reality is, they weren't. During Zeppelin you will never see him use a push pull knob on either guitar, it's as simple as that, hours of video footage will confirm it. In 1981 both #1 and #2 were both handled and photographed, among his other guitars, for a magazine called "Guitar Heroes". In the article all the wiring mods on #2 are mentioned which I'll explain in the next section, but there is no mention of any wiring mods on his #1. Why? Because there weren't any.

 

Sometime in the early 1990's a single push pull pot was installed at the bridge tone control position on #1 for phase switching as explained by Jimmy in this video. There has also been misinformation on the function of the switch. Despite Jimmy's on words and performance videos from the 90's and 2000's that show it being used for phase switching, Gibson mistankely set the knob up as a coil split on their replica in '03 and at one point mistakenly referred to it as a series/parallel switch. As mentioned though the single push pull on #1 is for phase switching only. While on the topic of phase switching, the middle pickup position remained in phase during Led Zeppelin's reign, despite the countless people who think it was out of phase just because his tone was slightly quacky and nasally. If you watch any video from the Zep era with the sound synced properly, when he switches to the middle position from the bridge, the tone gets fuller, but retains a certain quacky quality. It does not thin out like out of phase pickups do.

 

Pickups To date, Page's No.1 has seen a few pickup changes. The guitar started life with a set of PAFs. The double white bridge PAF seen from the early years failed shortly after the Australian tour in February 1972. In May '72 the guitar returned with a chrome covered T-Top pickup as a replacement which remained through Led Zeppelin and beyond until the early 90's when it was replaced with a custom wound Seymour Duncan which is believed to still reside in the guitar at the moment. The neck pickup, as far as we know, was never replaced until the 2000's when it a '60 PAF replaced the original for reasons unknown.

[djroge1]

Check this site.. goes through some of his guitars.. LP no1 is the second one

http://wholelottaled.webs.com/guitars.htm

 

Gibson Les Paul "No. 1"

Early History

 

Purchased from Joe Walsh for $500 in April 1969. The transaction took place in San Francisco that month during the Winterland Ballroom and Fillmore West performances. Based on audio, the guitar was first used for the April 27th perfomance at the Fillmore as you can hear the pickup switch being used as a kill switch during I Can't Quit You Baby, How Many More Times, and As Long As I Have You. At the April 26th performance at the Winterland Ballroom he is still doing volume swells during the certain bits of the afformentioned songs which he only did on the Telecaster. The tone is consistent throughout the show leading to the conclusion the LP probably didn't make it's debut until the next night, though it's hard to be precise without pictures.

 

The model year of the guitar, while not that important to most people, probably not even Jimmy, has been widely disputed and incorrectly presented for decades. Since there was about a decade from when the guitar was made and sold to Page, nothing can be confirmed completely. The general consensus is a '59 model, not a '58. The best scientific evidence if you will, were measurements taken by Gibson when the guitar was replicated in 2003 that apparently fit those of a '59 model best. Less perfect evidence would the double white bridge pickup which would clearly point to a '59 or early 1960 model as those were the only years that used double white bobbins. That is less perfect because we don't know if that's the original pickup as Page wasn't the original owner. While it's unlikely any previous owner used and abused the guitar to the extent Page did, components can still fail. For all intents and purposes, let's say it was the original pickup, then it's likey a '59 or early '60. There is no serial number on the guitar, it was likely lost after the neck was shaved to a thin eliptical profile which was done prior to Page buying it. Page, since the mid 70's occasionally has referred to his #1 as a '59.

 

Wiring Another area of myths and complete misinformation is the guitar's wiring. During Led Zeppelin the guitar had stock wiring, no wiring mods or push pulls. During the 1980s, both his #1 and #2 Les Pauls had wiring modifications done which were widely reported since. Unforunately though, many think those mods were doen during Zeppelin and the reality is, they weren't. During Zeppelin you will never see him use a push pull knob on either guitar, it's as simple as that, hours of video footage will confirm it. In 1981 both #1 and #2 were both handled and photographed, among his other guitars, for a magazine called "Guitar Heroes". In the article all the wiring mods on #2 are mentioned which I'll explain in the next section, but there is no mention of any wiring mods on his #1. Why? Because there weren't any.

 

Sometime in the early 1990's a single push pull pot was installed at the bridge tone control position on #1 for phase switching as explained by Jimmy in this video. There has also been misinformation on the function of the switch. Despite Jimmy's on words and performance videos from the 90's and 2000's that show it being used for phase switching, Gibson mistankely set the knob up as a coil split on their replica in '03 and at one point mistakenly referred to it as a series/parallel switch. As mentioned though the single push pull on #1 is for phase switching only. While on the topic of phase switching, the middle pickup position remained in phase during Led Zeppelin's reign, despite the countless people who think it was out of phase just because his tone was slightly quacky and nasally. If you watch any video from the Zep era with the sound synced properly, when he switches to the middle position from the bridge, the tone gets fuller, but retains a certain quacky quality. It does not thin out like out of phase pickups do.

 

Pickups To date, Page's No.1 has seen a few pickup changes. The guitar started life with a set of PAFs. The double white bridge PAF seen from the early years failed shortly after the Australian tour in February 1972. In May '72 the guitar returned with a chrome covered T-Top pickup as a replacement which remained through Led Zeppelin and beyond until the early 90's when it was replaced with a custom wound Seymour Duncan which is believed to still reside in the guitar at the moment. The neck pickup, as far as we know, was never replaced until the 2000's when it a '60 PAF replaced the original for reasons unknown.

 

That's an interesting read. You should check out the latest issue of Guitar World magazine with Joe Walsh on the cover. Joe talks about the LP he gave Jimmy Page (I'll have to re-read it if he said he gave or if he sold it to him). He said the guitar was a '59 but he had the neck shaved by a guy in Ohio who was well known in that area for his guitar mod skills.

[Rabs]

That's an interesting read. You should check out the latest issue of Guitar World magazine with Joe Walsh on the cover. Joe talks about the LP he gave Jimmy Page (I'll have to re-read it if he said he gave or if he sold it to him). He said the guitar was a '59 but he had the neck shaved by a guy in Ohio who was well known in that area for his guitar mod skills.

In Jimmy's own words :)

[saturn]

I remember reading years ago in the book "Hammer of the Gods" that "Since I've Been Loving You" was basically recorded live in the studio. The solo was obviously overdubbed.

 

To my ears, it sounds like a standard Les Paul. The arpegiated parts sound like the pickup selector is in the middle position. It has that airy, bell like chime to it IMO. The studio version is probably my all-time favorite Zep recording. It is so pure. I can just about "feel" when JP cranks the volume when the intro really kicks in. I would guess that part and the solo are in the bridge position.

 

The playing isn't anything too fancy or inticate, but his use of dynamics and phrasing is nearly perfect. Also, the recording is so pristine that you can hear Bonzos kick drum (or maybe hi hat?) squeeking throughout the verses!

[djroge1]

In Jimmy's own words :)

 

I forgot all about that video - great watching it again.

 

This interview goes pretty much right along with what Joe Walsh talks about in the article. Joe said that the Jame's Gang opened up for some shows while the Yardbirds/early Zeppelin was touring America and he and Jimmy became friends right before LZ 1 became big. He says that Jimmy was looking for a good Les Paul but was having a hard time finding one. Joe had 2 so he kept the one he liked best and then got on a plane to NY to meet Jimmy and made him a good deal on the guitar - in the article Joe says he "thinks" it was around $1,200. He goes on and talks about the guy who shaved the neck (as Jimmy mentions it was refinished in the video). The guy was a luthier out of Akron Ohio.

[djroge1]

I remember reading years ago in the book "Hammer of the Gods" that "Since I've Been Loving You" was basically recorded live in the studio. The solo was obviously overdubbed.

 

To my ears, it sounds like a standard Les Paul. The arpegiated parts sound like the pickup selector is in the middle position. It has that airy, bell like chime to it IMO. The studio version is probably my all-time favorite Zep recording. It is so pure. I can just about "feel" when JP cranks the volume when the intro really kicks in. I would guess that part and the solo are in the bridge position.

 

The playing isn't anything too fancy or inticate, but his use of dynamics and phrasing is nearly perfect. Also, the recording is so pristine that you can hear Bonzos kick drum (or maybe hi hat?) squeeking throughout the verses!

 

I think the squeaking is from the tape reel.

[saturn]

I think the squeaking is from the tape reel.

 

That could be it. But it definitely is in time with the drumming. It's like, eek eek..eek eek..eek eek..eek eek....

 

I haven't really listen to that song in a while so I listened carefully again. Maybe those arpeggio minor chords are the bridge pickup. It is very treble y sounding Who knows...it just sounds good to me

[kaleb]

PAF style pickups (I'm sure any maker will do.), middle position, maybe back off on the neck pickup a bit.

 

Amps and effects have a bit to do with it too. Amps could be a small, Class A style combo (Supro), or Marshall Plexi or Major, or one of his Hiwatts that he used during the Zeppelin III period.

 

Echoplex. Not just for the warm tape sound, but for the famous Echoplex tone coloration (the kind that Eric Johnson lauds about). And a wah is important. More specifically a vintage type Vox/Cry Baby (not a new one). It is simply used for a cocked wah effect, which enhances the quack of the middle position tone.

 

But Jimmy sounds like that no matter what he plugs into.

[RaysEpiphone]

For the OP, you have to remember that "The Song Remains the Same" movie's audio track was rerecorded, meaning it has lots of "Post-Production". It's very obvious if you listen to it.

 

Don't know about the album, as I remember it sounded pretty raw.

[stein]

It sounds a lot like a Telecaster to me. Sounds like a small single ended amp as well.

 

I agree with the OP, it WOULD be interesting to know.

[nrand]

For the OP, you have to remember that "The Song Remains the Same" movie's audio track was rerecorded, meaning it has lots of "Post-Production". It's very obvious if you listen to it.

 

Don't know about the album, as I remember it sounded pretty raw.

 

I chose these two examples because production and everything else considered, these two sounded most like the same or similar guitar being played. Page's performances of this song varied wildly, and in one example I heard it was even in a different key - lower. For me the original recording was one I grew up with and which first sparked my imagination as to what a guitar was capable of. Everyone has their own 'Holy Grail' - this is mine. It was only the other day when it occurred to me to ask the question. I am enjoying the discussion hugely!