martin mmv

[blindboygrunt]

any you guys had a play on a martin mmv ?

seems a good alternative to a d28 , samples on youtube sound good ... 'simpler' bracing , whatever that means and i believe it had a mortice and tenon neck joint , but how much would that matter?

 

seem like a bit of a bargain

[EuroAussie]

'MMV' Martin - never heard of it ... ?? :blink:

[BigKahune]

.

 

MMV is basically a cheap D-28 that's been stripped down and made with lower quality materials. I think they're made for some large retailers, kind of like Gibson USA "exclusive" electrics.

 

Seems like Martin has really been pushing more lower end and mid level guitars into the market in the last few years.

 

.

[ParlourMan]

Mileage may vary

[EuroAussie]

Right, thanks for that Bk.

 

BBG, if youre interested in a D-28 on a budget my advice would be to buy used. I personally found that Martins sound awfully tight when new, and the best 28's Ive played are ones that have had at least 10 years worth of play. They cost much less than new and sound a lot more balanced and less tight.

 

 

.

 

MMV is basically a cheap D-28 that's been stripped down and made with lower quality materials. I think they're made for some large retailers, kind of like Gibson USA "exclusive" electrics.

 

Seems like Martin has really been pushing more lower end and mid level guitars into the market in the last few years.

 

.

[stein]

Right, thanks for that Bk.

 

BBG, if youre interested in a D-28 on a budget my advice would be to buy used. I personally found that Martins sound awfully tight when new, and the best 28's Ive played are ones that have had at least 10 years worth of play. They cost much less than new and sound a lot more balanced and less tight.

That is a hell of a good piece of advice, but you NEED to add this:

 

Don't buy a Martin blind. You need to try before you buy, because there is at least as much variation in one D- to another as any guitar there is.

[retrorod]

.

 

MMV is basically a cheap D-28 that's been stripped down and made with lower quality materials. I think they're made for some large retailers, kind of like Gibson USA "exclusive" electrics.

 

Seems like Martin has really been pushing more lower end and mid level guitars into the market in the last few years.

 

.

In my opinion a D28 is fairly 'stripped down' as is......Jes, Sayin'...it is fairly plain-looking to a sunburst Gibson with MOP inlays!

[Rambler]

In my opinion a D28 is fairly 'stripped down' as is......Jes, Sayin'..

He-heh. Those MMVs have a modified x-brace, bolt on neck and low profile neck (the neck would be as off-putting to me as the other factors. Dont like those necks). Wont have quite the low end rumble of a higher end Martin.

 

For the same buckeroos, you could land and Eastman style 28 with an adi top and vintage appointments, All depends on how you feel about home grown vs the other kind.

[BigKahune]

In my opinion a D28 is fairly 'stripped down' as is......Jes, Sayin'...it is fairly plain-looking to a sunburst Gibson with MOP inlays!

 

That's Martin, not much bling until the 40s. I would agree the 28 is fairly plain looking, but you left out that the 28 has a set neck, 5 ply top binding, 3 ply back binding, marquetry on the back center seam, bone nut, bone saddle, etc - in comparison to the MMV.

 

 

@Rambler - Isn't the neck a mortise&tenon that is secured with a bolt and glued.

 

 

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[Rambler]

That's Martin, not much bling until the 40s. < Actually, the 30s issues (snowflake inlay, herringbone purfuling, and flowerpot h/s) had more going on than postwar models, fyi. Dead on, tho, the the mmvs bolt on neck

[Dave F]

any you guys had a play on a martin mmv ?

seems a good alternative to a d28 , samples on youtube sound good ... 'simpler' bracing , whatever that means and i believe it had a mortice and tenon neck joint , but how much would that matter?

 

seem like a bit of a bargain

 

I like the 10 year old Martins, they start sounding great and usually if there's any problems they'll show up by then.

I recently bought a 12 year old 000-28EC for $1800 and it's quickly becoming my favorite.

 

On the other hand, getting a new guitar is always nice.

I'm not sure what price range you're looking at but some of the Martin quality basic models can be bought reasonibly at quite a few places like Maury's, Elderly's and My Favorite Guitars.

Here's a sampling of some of the current prices you can get if you contact the stores. They all have to adhere to the MAP.

Supposingly the D18 is the basis for all the Martin Dreads. A few hundred now can save you hundreds later on.

Look at these prices and then look what the used ones are selling for. Should not be that far off.

If you buy a bolt on MIM Martin and try to trade up or sell it you'll be shocked.

If these were out of my price range, I'd be lookin at Taylor or Takamine instead of the lower end Martins.

Martin D-18 $1,734.00

Martin D-28 $1,874.00

Martin D-35 $1,943.00

Martin D-28P $1,874.00

[bobouz]

If you buy a bolt on MIM Martin and try to trade up or sell it you'll be shocked.

Note that many non-dovetail Martins are made in the USA, such as those from the 16 series, and they should hold their value reasonably well. If I recall correctly, the MMV primarily utilizes 16 series design features & represents a solid value.

[EuroAussie]

 

If these were out of my price range, I'd be lookin at Taylor or Takamine instead of the lower end Martins.

 

 

 

Why on earth would you recommend to look for a Taylor when he has a clear interest in Martin ??

 

I could not imagine how a Taylor will satisfy when one is looking for a Martin tone, couldnt be anymore different. I think buying 2nd hand Martin would be the best option, and as you saide a well played in 10 year old Martin that has opened up.

[Rambler]

Note that many non-dovetail Martins are made in the USA, such as those from the 16 series, and they should hold their value reasonably well. If I recall correctly, the MMV primarily utilizes 16 series design features & represents a solid value.

Id be thinking a pre-owned MMV or style 16 would loose about half its value on the resale market. Too much competition (see: Eastman) at that price point.

[Mojorule]

What does an Eastman offer that a Recording King doesn't? If I wanted the Martin 18 series sound and didn't have the wonga for a US instrument, I'd be looking at the RK 10 series. All-solid hog back and sides, all-solid sitka top, real unbound hog neck, nice-looking tort body binding, real rosewood board, real rosewood bridge, bone nut, bone saddle, and scalloped, forward-shifted X-bracing. All for around 200 Euros/USD. On the 000-18 equivalent there's even a 1.75 nut which the current Martin doesn't have. Every sound sample I've heard was good. True, for 28 lovers, the rosewood series are more expensive than 200 smackers, and rosewood really isn't my bag, but I can't imagine that they are not equally good, and they are still cheaper than Eastmans, I believe. PM has a 12-fretter in rosewood, I think. Again more expensive, but so are the Martin equivalents. Verdict, PM?

[ParlourMan]

I've waxed lyrical on this before, so will be brief this time, those looking at Martin's and not having the funds to do more than look could do an awful lot worse than give a Recording King a go. I have both a rather posh Martin and the Recording King equivalent, sure there's fit, finish elements where you can see the guitar which cost the most, but on a straight on musical instrument evaluation the sound of one does not express that it cost more than 8-9 times the other.

 

If I fancied a cheap, but decent enough instrument, recording King is probably what I'd look at first.

[bobouz]

Id be thinking a pre-owned MMV or style 16 would loose about half its value on the resale market. Too much competition (see: Eastman) at that price point.

Could be, but I'd guess closer to a third of it's original price. Of course, that depends on how good of a deal you made at the time of the original purchase! If a particular model is well regarded, it seems more likely that when trying to resell the instrument, you'll find someone willing to pay a fair price for a USA-made Martin compared to an equivalent Chinese-made Eastman.

[stein]

Can I join the argument? Or is this mostly for Brits or Europeans?

 

I would add FIRST of all, that if one is looking for a "Martin" sound, the cheaper Martins don't exactly deliver that sound. Going with a different brand (like Taylor, Eastman..etc) might not be a step away from that sound, but a step closer.

 

Another point I would make, is USED prices are generally 60% of new SALE prices. I don'y buy this saying that certain brand guitars hold thier value more. Literally, I don't BUY them. There are some cases that a guitar's new price increases, effecting the used price. And better guitars of more value tend to stay valueable. But the reality is, the more you actually take out of your pocket buying new, the more you loose in dollars at resale.

 

Now, this last thing might be better posed as a QUESTION for those across the pond: what exactly is the used prices compared to new prices?

 

I guess another thing I often wonder about, is what the prices are in general, and the price differences between American guitars and Chinese. I realize that being an American in America, there are certain advantages and feelings that go along with it. We don't have to pay for shipping and customs, and we might tend to look at it more as a patriotic thing.

 

It isn't that quality doesn't account, but more of a bar that has to be met. If a Chinese instrument approaches the price of what we pay for an American instrument, it doesn't work too well. As a result, we don't really have too much of a high end Chinese guitar market. This causes me to wonder if there are major differences in prices for them in Europe, or if it is just a matter of feeling different about it.

[EuroAussie]

 

 

Now, this last thing might be better posed as a QUESTION for those across the pond: what exactly is the used prices compared to new prices?

 

 

 

 

Stein, in my neck of the woods (central europe) there is barely a used guitar market for brands like Gibson, Martin and Taylor. Fact is that most of those guitars are beyond the budget of most folks here and they just dont sell that much, so there is a very small second hand market. Of the few Ive seen on the 2nd hand market they are only discounted by 20-25% from retail.

[stein]

Stein, in my neck of the woods (central europe) there is barely a used guitar market for brands like Gibson, Martin and Taylor. Fact is that most of those guitars are beyond the budget of most folks here and they just dont sell that much, so there is a very small second hand market. Of the few Ive seen on the 2nd hand market they are only discounted by 20-25% from retail.

Now, that is SIGNIFICANT info. Very different for you than for me.

 

If I were in your situation, personally I wouldn't let a price difference of that amount have much effect, at least not compared to which guitar I LIKED better. And for a market that small where guitars are rare, I would be shopping both new and used with most emphasis on FINDING one, as opposed to new/used.

 

Or put another way, if I was able to find one I liked, I wouldn't be trying to find a used one so I could save 20%.

[EuroAussie]

 

Or put another way, if I was able to find one I liked, I wouldn't be trying to find a used one so I could save 20%.

 

For sure Stein, if THE guitar comes up you snap it up. Thats what happned with my Aaron Lewis SJ, bought it same day I saw it, on instinct and 18 months later it still is my favourite Gibson. But interestingly thats the only Gibson, I bought locally. Two were bought in Germany through our Guitar Centre equivalent (Thomann) and three in the US.

 

In a way its good that we have such a small 2nd hand market, otherwise I have a feeling I would be buying and trading guitars like there's no tomorrow looking in earnest for that holy grail .... not healthy !

[Mojorule]

For sure Stein, if THE guitar comes up you snap it up. Thats what happned with my Aaron Lewis SJ, bought it same day I saw it, on instinct and 18 months later it still is my favourite Gibson. But interestingly thats the only Gibson, I bought locally. Two were bought in Germany through our Guitar Centre equivalent (Thomann) and three in the US.

 

In a way its good that we have such a small 2nd hand market, otherwise I have a feeling I would be buying and trading guitars like there's no tomorrow looking in earnest for that holy grail .... not healthy !

 

What EA says is true, Stein, and your reaction is pretty well on the money. I bought my Woody Guthrie from Thomann. That route is theoretically open to all here in Europe, and it is a sensible route given that company's warranty and returns policy. (Their handling of issues is not without problems that have been discussed here in the past, but the policies themselves are quite good in principle.) Yet while the odds might not quite be 100-1 on, I would still put substantial sums of money on there being only one Gibson Woody Guthrie in Hungary. And reasonable amounts on there being no more than ten Bozeman instruments within its borders. Perchance fewer. This is largely to do with typical salaries here, as EA suggests. But there are expats and some homegrown nouveaux riches with serious money, and it is notable that there is no Gibson acoustic dealer in the whole country, even on a small scale, whereas in Prague you can find new Gibson acoustics on the wall. I just don't think there is the demand even among those who can afford the things. There is no awareness of the acoustics really - no tradition of people playing them and hearing them live. With more samples and providers online, this will eventually cease to be the case, and money will be the only factor limiting availability. But at present, I think that guitarists here with some money to spend on a decent acoustic will buy a Martin or a Taylor if they can, and a nice Czech Furch if they can't. Even people here who shop at Thomann probably don't think to look for Gibby acoustics at present. In contrast, new Gibson electrics can be found in Hungary, and if you know where to look, some really interesting second-hand Gibson leccies come up too. I really would have expected to win a big pot of cash had I bet on there only being a single Howard Roberts Fusion hereabouts, and on its being mine, but I saw a sunburst one on sale in Budapest two years ago. It sold quite quickly too, so somebody here knew the quality of what was on offer. The same shop has also had an ES 335 Studio for sale recently, in cherry red. They may have been cheap back in the day, but they are rare as rare in Europe. Even in the UK they don't come up all that often, and most of the UK-based ones I've seen in the flesh or on the web were black. So there is a culture of buying and playing Gibsons on the electric front here, which is only limited by poor salaries. Quality second-hand acoustics of any make are like hen's teeth, though - I once saw a 1970s Guild jumbo with serious wear in Budapest for about 800 Euros... Other than that, none of the quality used acoustics I've seen here were for sale, and still you can count them on one hand: our local bluegrass star's Furch, a famous songwriter's Lowden, and a Martin D35 which had travelled with a renowned bluegrass band from EA's neck of the woods.

 

As a footnote, you may be interested to know that the UK market in quality acoustics, while considerably larger than Hungary's, is also likely much smaller than that of any US state of similar size. As you can tell from the forum there are quite a few Brits with Gibson acoustics, and on ebay and Craigslist you will find secondhand Gibsons. But it's not as though they are lying around in every closet there either. A major city of 100K residents or more will typically have a couple of new J45s and either a Hummingbird or J200 on sale in its shops. One of the 45s may be a rosewood custom. It's not as though there are loads of examples sitting there to be tried out. You don't see that many out and about at gigs either. So there aren't loads flowing into the second-hand market. Really the internet is the best source of Gibsons in terms of variety and the chances of trying a few out - you have more chance of hitting the perfect J45 by buying from an online warehouse with a good returns policy than by going to your local shop. That said, in my hometown somebody did recently put up a 1948 SJ in natural finish which was a bit unusual. Would have liked to have the cash to bid on that one...

[ParlourMan]

I live in a reasonably wealthy place, a small banking principality... the reality is I'm 100 times more likely to see a car worth 100k than I am to see anyone with a couple of Gibsons. Horrible 80's point metal guitars yes perhaps (well, we do border Germany}, but classy and historic acoustics not so much. I've played a few that some mates have through in France but most of the other bands are kicking about with lower end gear.

 

The biggest music dealer here would be fairly small-time by UK dealer standards.

 

I guess a lot of the would be musos are going down the DJ route now that it's become an industry and the fact there are gigs aplenty to be had by comparison to live music gigs. Definitely that way here...

[j45nick]

Sounds like it might be worth the price of a plane ticket to the US for those living in the former eastern bloc countries just to buy a couple of those cheap US used Gibson acoustics. I'm assuming you could get used guitars into the country with minimal customs problems. I can see there being an issue with new guitars, but most countries are more lenient with used products.

 

I think EA has it sorted out by cajoling business associates to do it for him.

 

Seriously, in the US right now I could buy a late model J-45 TV plus a comparable SJ or 'bird for about 2500 euro. My last two Gibson purchases (used) were a Fuller's 1943 SJ and an L-OO Legend. Total cost for both: about 3600 euro.

 

Lots of people don't realize just how good we have it in the US.

[Dave F]

If these were out of my price range, I'd be lookin at Taylor or Takamine instead of the lower end Martins.

 

 

 

Why on earth would you recommend to look for a Taylor when he has a clear interest in Martin ??

 

I could not imagine how a Taylor will satisfy when one is looking for a Martin tone, couldnt be anymore different. I think buying 2nd hand Martin would be the best option, and as you saide a well played in 10 year old Martin that has opened up.

 

 

 

I stand by the premise of a first option if you cannot afford the better guitars of buying a used quality instrument.

My personal third preference is to take a higher end Taylor or Takamine over a low end Martin. I just believe they're better.

Been there, done it and would do it again.

 

Biggest thing is to stay within your limit so you don't have buyer's remorse or worse have to sell it off.

I learned to play on on a cheapo Kay (still have it), went through a few cheapo electrics that I literally wore out, bought a decent Ovation in '70 which I still have, then played a used MIJ strat ( which I passed on to a younger player) for my main guitar for over twenty years.