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Any of you guys kind of always felt that .012's, and acoustic guitars in general,tuned to pitch too stiff & hampers your playing?


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that was a freebie... marketing....

 

Seeing as you knew him so well, Zurdo, did Johnny Cash tell you anything else, or just that he found Martin's boring and hated them? I'm quite sad to find out Johnny Cash was so self-unaware, I mean, he could have had a guitar from any company he wanted, they would have been thrilled to get a name such as Cash attached to them yet he stuck with freebies he detested... nay... hated all those years, eh? What a remarkably weak-minded individual he must have been, spending all those years doing the same job with tools he hated, a pathetic man really with these new facts exposed. Sounds like a complete waste of a life to me. Did you never fancy trying to broaden his mind by telling him he may look further afield than these tools of the trade he hated so much?

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I'm slowly moving all my acoustics except the '70 D-18 to 11's, and if I down tune, 12's.....my fingers just too old to fight those honking strings!!!

newtones also do a low tension string

btw merseybeat , and anyone else who may be reading , the volume loss mentioned here ,and many other places online is certainly there , but it really is close to unnoticable in my experience ... i ch

I'm not one to complain but this one just flew off the table of reasonable discussions, hit a wall exploded into a million pieces,

 

but somehow -- still lived on

 

It's a guitar forum, this is what happens... Could be worse, we could be debating the effects of sneezing into a soundhole to open up a guitar (No, I'm not joking)

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In Johnny Cash's day Martin's WERE boring..

Zuro didn't need know Cash personally to have heard it somewhere...be familiar with the Martin Guitar & conclude it most probably so.

At 67 years old (I read here).. he will know the Martin Guitar back then very well.

There were no signature models...not even a lick of herringbone on the things...

Back in the day there were wide spread complaints at the plain boring limited line up they produced ..(and may I ,Gruhn & many others add).. over built.

Mike Longworth said so himself. And Chris Martin said it was one of the issues when he took over the company.

 

P.S.I think Ill try the .011's..milk no sugar

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In Johnny Cash's day Martin's WERE boring..

Zuro didn't need know Cash personally to have heard it somewhere...be familiar with the Martin Guitar & conclude it most probably so.

At 67 years old (I read here).. he will know the Martin Guitar back then very well.

There were no signature models...not even a lick of herringbone on the things...

Back in the day there were wide spread complaints at the plain boring limited line up they produced ..(and may I ,Gruhn & many others add).. over built.

Mike Longworth said so himself. And Chris Martin said it was one of the issues when he took over the company.

 

P.S.I think Ill try the .011's..milk no sugar

 

 

So what stopped him from playing something else, seemed unfussed about breaking plenty other "rules", generally described as a bit of a libertine by many, yet he stuck with it? comes across like a chord that doesn't ring true....

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So what stopped him from playing something else, seemed unfussed about breaking plenty other "rules", generally described as a bit of a libertine by many, yet he stuck with it? comes across like a chord that doesn't ring true....

 

Maybe he just used the tank like guitars for shows & tours... and kept the great Pre War ones at home. Rosanne should know : )

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Maybe he just used the tank like guitars for shows & tours... and kept the great Pre War ones at home. Rosanne should know : )

 

But if he thought they were so boring, why wouldn't he go for something more "showy" for shows? He was Johnny Cash, he could have had Martin build him anything he wanted (furniture included). It really doesn't make much sense, no shortage of money (sure it'd have been free anyway along with a "Thank you for the advert Mr Cash"), certainly no shortage of profile prestige, most certainly no shortage of other builders who'd have loved to have Johnny boy take to the stage armed with their wares. It makes no sense from any angle.

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But if he thought they were so boring, why wouldn't he go for something more "showy" for shows? He was Johnny Cash, he could have had Martin build him anything he wanted (furniture included). It really doesn't make much sense, no shortage of money (sure it'd have been free anyway along with a "Thank you for the advert Mr Cash"), certainly no shortage of profile prestige, most certainly no shortage of other builders who'd have loved to have Johnny boy take to the stage armed with their wares. It makes no sense from any angle.

You know I dont think Martin Custom built much of anything in the 70's. No Custom Shoppe as they call it.

By the 70's the old stuff had pretty much dried up off the market at the cheap prices that the 60's had around.

It really was a low point for the acoustic guitar back then..Gibsons were terrible..I dont know of anyone making good acoustics in the 70's and most of the decades around the 70's.

These last 25 years have been like a revival for the acoustic guitar. Private small shoppes making a good attempt at the great Pre War guitars seem to be everywhere.

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You know I dont think Martin Custom built much of anything in the 70's. No Custom Shoppe as they call it.

By the 70's the old stuff had pretty much dried up off the market at the cheap prices that the 60's had around.

It really was a low point for the acoustic guitar back then..Gibsons were terrible..I dont know of anyone making good acoustics in the 70's and most of the decades around the 70's.

These last 25 years have been like a revival for the acoustic guitar. Private small shoppes making a good attempt at the great Pre War guitars seem to be everywhere.

 

 

So you're saying even Johnny Cash couldn't get what he wanted by the biggest acoustic manufacturer of the time? That's quite a tough one to swallow. If you're saying Johnny Cash may have thought the generic models were a bit rough but so was most others, it's quite different to what was said above. It just seems strange that in the heyday of rock n rollers, the excess boys, they could all get whatever they wanted, when they wanted it day or night, but Johnny Cash couldn't when all he wanted was a half-decent guitar.

 

Lest we forget he's probably the most iconic 'user' on a global scale, custom shop or no custom shop, I'd have guessed when Mr Cash called they'd do a fair bit of listening. I must take this one to the AGF the next time I get Gibson-bashed. So it seems in all that time in business they've never learned to please their best advert, nor how to attach a bridge properly to a guitar when ramping up the numbers. I might have to light a wee candle for Martin & Co. Tough times indeed. :D

 

 

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2kD1YUtA5o

 

Please note that no Martins or indeed any guitars were harmed during the making of this film.

 

Hahaha,,, :D :D

 

I'm trying to get our singer to do a mock-up of that very song, we'll be doing a gig in December in a new bar that's opened up in town. It had been closed for a wee while there, but in it's former business life it was indeed a gay bar.

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Hahaha,,, :D :D

 

I'm trying to get our singer to do a mock-up of that very song, we'll be doing a gig in December in a new bar that's opened up in town. It had been closed for a wee while there, but in it's former business life it was indeed a gay bar.

 

Best take your Martin, then...

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I would..... but I hate it! :D :D

 

Ah, but you've not tried it with 11s and a 0.60 mm pick - no attitude in your Mart. On the basis of Taffmutt's experiment, I can only deduce that you will get something like Gibsonesque growl out of the blasted thing if you string it with 9s and hit it with one of those felt ukelele picks.

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I dont know of anyone making good acoustics in the 70's and most of the decades around the 70's.

A lot of Guild's production was consistently good (owned four of them through those years).

Even with the rosewood bridge plate, Martin continued to put some gems out there, such as a 1970 00-18 I hung onto for over twenty years.

Gibson's production was obviously not stellar, but again, good ones still emerged from time to time. Had a very lively '72 Heritage Custom, even while it was burdoned with the heavy duty double-X bracing.

 

Generalizations are at times useful, but they do not cover every base & can lead to missing out on some wonderful instruments from various eras.

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So you're saying even Johnny Cash couldn't get what he wanted by the biggest acoustic manufacturer of the time? That's quite a tough one to swallow. If you're saying Johnny Cash may have thought the generic models were a bit rough but so was most others, it's quite different to what was said above. It just seems strange that in the heyday of rock n rollers, the excess boys, they could all get whatever they wanted, when they wanted it day or night, but Johnny Cash couldn't when all he wanted was a half-decent guitar.

 

Lest we forget he's probably the most iconic 'user' on a global scale, custom shop or no custom shop, I'd have guessed when Mr Cash called they'd do a fair bit of listening. I must take this one to the AGF the next time I get Gibson-bashed. So it seems in all that time in business they've never learned to please their best advert, nor how to attach a bridge properly to a guitar when ramping up the numbers. I might have to light a wee candle for Martin & Co. Tough times indeed. :D

 

...Dont swallow it, just put it to the side and ponder it : )

Im not exactly sure but the previous relative running Martin was a kind of broken dude that didnt have a good handle on the thing.

 

Similar to Gibson...I was long after a Gibson J200 especially in the 80's, though I had never played one. Gibson put out that limited J200 Rosewood Celebrity...I was out to buy it. Only one on 48th Street It sounded like crate..the salesman my friend who knew our whole family coming in there..refused to sell it to me.

I tried to get them to do something with Gibson to get me a good one..Friend said there is no hope... I even appealed that if they could get the guitar in pieces, Ill pay Martin to build it..no. Im not famous but I was desperate & would pay. It just was not done.

 

Same with furniture,in the UK it was nothing for those craftsmen to change a little this or that to my specs..here..forget it..it came as it came..period. And this is the highest end stuff.

 

In general relating to the state of the acoustic guitar in the 80's from "The history of George Lowden and his guitars" I dug this out.

As a result of a rampant fashion for all things electronic in music, sales of acoustic instruments slumped worldwide.

By 1988 the market was still quite flat for acoustic guitars and world wide prices were about half in real terms to what they are now.

"David Magagna(former Vice Pres. of CF Martin told me...In the late 60's I could have gone into a large NY store,shown a guitar,not a Martin by the way..(he means Gibson) and the owner would have said to me,that's the worst guitar I've seen in quite a while..Ill take fifty!

While in the 80's Id have gone into the store and shown a truely great guitar and the owner would have said to me,thats the best guitar Ive seen in years,but I cant buy one, untill I get rid of all these on my walls.."

 

Things were not like they are now.. nor how they were & are in the UK where sensible people reside.

(Ill go to the mirror and tell myself to sod off now)

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Ive likened the feeling of walking into a room full of Martin guitars to walking into a gay bar..

I mean really, all those plain..unimaginative, dreadnaughts hanging there wall to wall. Square headstocks..no ornament..all looking the same..theres not a pretty thing amoungst em.

Now isn't that interesting. "Walking into a gay-bar".

 

I kinda see what you mean, but have to take full consequence. Yeah, the Marts can appear rather masculine in all their puristic plainness. Then again, aren't gays known for a lot of bling and vanity. Aren't some of the Gibson's more gay, when it comes to it. The Hummingbird, the Firebird, , , the Doves in Flight, the Dove itself. And wouldn't those guitars make their players look more masculine by the simple fact of contrast, , , or is it opposite - does the nature of an instrument cast its ooouuuze upon the helpless handler. I wonder : Is the average Martin player a bit more feminine looking than the Gibsonist, or does he actually come across more 'workingman'. The latter, I believe, , , especially if he puts on a checkered shirt and rolls up the sleeves – still not sure. Continue to speculate : Can a Gibson be played in a checkered shirt ? No way a HB, but maybe the J-45, , , the workhorse ! Yes, the workhorse almost demands a checkered shirt. Do gays wear checkered shirts, , , naaah, don't think so, , , or maybe that's exactly what they do. Leads me to ask what to wear when approaching the next Martin-salon. Something silky, , , maybe creampinknylonish or a brown/black/gray lumberjack jacket. Then what could be expected from the Marts there – which way would they react, how would we connect. Perhaps a daring D-45 might jump off the wall – if so, would I be able to manage, , , could a Bowie tune or some early 70's Stones stuff be the answer if it happened – can material like that be performed on a Mart at all. Not according to Jagger, I presume, , , or Bolan. Aaaarrh Mick, , , he's still so gay, , , and see the way he still swings that bursty square. Hardly makes him more macho, , , btw. would that archeolocigal Stone under any circumstance be able to lift a plain Mart dread. No way, , , the combo just wouldn't fly, he better stick to those birds, bees'n'butterflies.

 

Now one little piece of math remains : If Mick doesn't get masculinized by playing a blinged Gibson, how on earth could someone be feminized in the company of 'straight' C. F. Martins.

Confused and wondering here. . . .

Should we call rationalist of the Board, mister PM. No, for heavens sake, , , he probably would regard the whole Q. a boyband, , , and besides tends to see old lesbians everywhere -

 

The Acoustic Monk

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Staggering amount of stereotyping going on....

 

The irony is loads of people here are inadvertently talking about the where & who people choose to share their 'special little man' with... that's probably the gayest part of this thread. Does it matter to anyone? Are straight men really that convinced gay men would find them attractive? Even if they did, would you be so threatened by it? Who are you more scared of them or yourself? Is there anyone left in the whole world who wont accept that absolute cutting edge of fashion, art, music tends to be born out of the gay /gay friendly / forward thinking and unbiased scene? ...then watered down to a beige acceptability for the testosterone monkeys in the "normal" world of course.

 

FFS lads, live & let live, they're just people... They'd probably be more aghast at the thought of you touching them as what you are are at the thought of them touching you.

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Now isn't that interesting. "Walking into a gay-bar".

 

I kinda see what you mean, but have to take full consequence. Yeah, the Marts can appear rather masculine in all their puristic plainness. Then again, aren't gays known for a lot of bling and vanity. Aren't some of the Gibson's more gay, when it comes to it. The Hummingbird,the Firebird, , , the Doves in Flight, the Dove itself. And wouldn't those guitars make their players look more masculine by the simple fact of contrast, , , or is it opposite - does the nature of aninstrument cast its ooouuuze upon the helpless handler. I wonder : Ist he average Martin player a bit more feminine looking than the Gibsonist, or does he actually come across more 'workingman'. The latter, I believe, , , especially if he puts on a checkered shirt and rolls up the sleeves – still not sure. Continue to speculate : Can a Gibson be played in a checkered shirt ? No way a HB, but maybe the J-45, , , the workhorse ! Yes, the workhorse almost demands acheckered shirt. Do gays wear checkered shirts, , , naaah, don't think so, , , or maybe that's exactly what they do. Leads me to askwhat to wear when approaching the next Martin-salon. Something silky, , , maybe creampinknylonish or a brown/black/gray lumberjack jacket. Then what could be expected from the Marts there – which way would they react, how would we connect. Perhaps a daring D-45 might jump off the wall – if so, would I be able to manage, , , could a Bowie tune or some early 70's Stones stuff be the answer if it happened – can material like that be performed on a Mart at all. Not according to Jagger, I presume, , , or Bolan. Aaaarrh Mick, , , he's still so gay, , , and see the way he still swings that bursty square. Hardly makes him more macho, , , btw. would that archeolocigal Stone under any circumstance be able to lift a plain Mart dread. No way, , , the combo just wouldn't fly, he better stick to those birds, bees'n'butterflies.

 

Now one little piece of math remains : If Mick doesn't get masculinized by playing a blinged Gibson, how on earth could someone be feminized in the company of 'straight' C. F. Martins.

Confused and wondering here. . . .

Should we call rationalist of the Board, mister PM. No, for heavens sake, , , he probably would regard the whole Q. a boyband, , , and besides tends to see old lesbians everywhere -

 

The Acoustic Monk

 

Nah!

Gibsons in general are shapelier and prettier.The J200 is the most voluptuous guitar ever made..(and it comes in Blonde or Brunette)

Men are just not pretty.

 

Concerning walking into a room full of Martins ,I liken to the feeling of walking into a gay bar.

When I was young my best friend was a homo, Im not.

I can hardly bare to look at myself in the mirror much less another dude..yeech!

During the disco days he'd take me around NY stoned and Id end up in a club look around ..and there wasnt a pretty thing in sight..

Similar feeling to walkin into a room full of Martin Dreadnaughts..blah!

 

People look at things different..

I had two Masterbuilt Fender Stats made..in Pink.

To me its like Im getting my hands on Betty..or Diana..something beautifull.

Before I bought the Braz Lowden I was hot on Madonna so i designed a Martin 00 Madonna model.

Since I couldnt get my hands on her i could build the next best thing : )

I submitted it to Martin for a quote..they didnt take me seriously....(thank God when i think back)

But it was gonna be sexy..blonde super Flamed select fiddleback maple body & neck...Italian Alpine spruce top..Ivory Pyramid bridge..pearl torch..Cross on fingerboard..PreWar 00 shape 45 trim..a gothic back strip..Meow!

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Nah!

Gibsons in general are shapelier and prettier.The J200 is the most voluptuous guitar ever made..(and it comes in Blonde or Brunette)

Men are just not pretty.

 

Concerning walking into a room full of Martins ,I liken to the feeling of walking into a gay bar.

When I was young my best friend was a homo, Im not.

I can hardly bare to look at myself in the mirror much less another dude..yeech!

During the disco days he'd take me around NY stoned and Id end up in a club look around ..and there wasnt a pretty thing in sight..

Similar feeling to walkin into a room full of Martin Dreadnaughts..blah!

 

 

 

Truly mind-boggling.

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