Murph Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 So is everyone basing the sound coming from high quality lap top speakers. Bose. Desktop. They sound great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuitarGeordie Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 "Ya pays ya money and takes ya choice." In the 60's, I was offered a Ford Mustang for my Healey 3000. For me no contest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tpbiii Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 Like them both. To me, one sounds like a Martin D18 and the other a Gibson Hummingbird. Yea, that is pretty much my take. We have vintage examples of both and we have done an lot of pairwise comparisons -- but it never occurred to me to compare a Hummingbird to a D-18. They are both iconic models and the old one at least have well known tone pallets, but they generally show up in different places and in different combinations and genres. I am fond of saying now that many of our guitars are essentially perfect -- except not for the same music. Thanks or taking the time to do do this. It is a nice comparison. Best, -Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-minor7 Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 Yea, that is pretty much my take. We have vintage examples of both and we have done an lot of pairwise comparisons -- but it never occurred to me to compare a Hummingbird to a D-18. Well, in your case the comparison would highly asymmetrical as the 1962 Bird in your house is the double-mellow version : Rosewood saddle in a plastic bridge. In fact it would be a good idea for you - if I may suggest - that you brought a rosewood bridge/ceramic saddled Southern Jumbo or Country Western from that same year or 63 home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 "Ya pays ya money and takes ya choice." In the 60's, I was offered a Ford Mustang for my Healey 3000. For me no contest. I hope you kept the Healey. It's the only vintage English sports car I would own (although I might be tempted by a good E-type). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tpbiii Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 Well, in your case the comparison would highly asymmetrical as the 1962 Bird in your house is the double-mellow version : Rosewood saddle in a plastic bridge. In fact it would be a good idea for you - if I may suggest - that you brought a rosewood bridge/ceramic saddled Southern Jumbo or Country Western from that same year or 63 home. We actually had a 63 for awhile. We also have a 54 SJ -- that is as close as we can get to your example. The short answer is the plastic bridge -- at least in our example -- has much less impact than you would think. That why we never changed it. The tonality with the two birds was essential the same -- oddly the 62 is a bit louder. I expect it has more to do with bracing than bridge-saddle materials, although my experience in this area involves mostly a lot of different kinds of guitars. The largest effect of bridge/saddle materials seems to be volume. Of course, bridge and plate size and placement makes a difference, sometimes quite a lot -- to find out what, you just have to play the instruments. The standard practice (long ago) of replacing large RW bridgeplates on 70s Martins is a compelling piece of evidence. We have no 60s CW or SJ. We do have 43 and 54 SJs. You can find the tonal evolution of those instruments (as well as the period J-45s) is quite dramatic. IME, the earlier the guitar the better. None of them have the fullness and blended sound that are characterize those 60s Hummingbirds and even the 54 has diminished power. I don't know how the 60s CWs stand up -- we had a couple of square shoulder late 60s J-45s once, but that was after the Norlin changes were in full swing. That was before I understood what I was missing -- they were gone by the end of the 70s. Best, -Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldCowboy Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 IMHO and experience, a better comparison might be made between a Martin D-35 and a Gibson 'bird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinder Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 IMHO and experience, a better comparison might be made between a Martin D-35 and a Gibson 'bird. I’d go with that-the D35 I think would be a hair louder and more boomy, but that solid warmth and expansive midrange would be there in both cases. Would love to hear that comparison if anyone has the boxes to put side by side! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Owl Smith Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 I prefer the Hummingbird. To me its a typical reaction when i hear Martin and Gibson. The Martin is single dimensional (in a good way) while the Gibson just has more body, depth, overtones and mojo. I can agree with this statement entirely. What i find real amazing is the big difference between the Martin D18 & the Gibson Hummingbird whilst both of them are spruce tops and mahogany back and sides and they sound definetely not the same despite this: i have realized this the very day i had the opportunity to try them both. Nevertheless, it remains quite difficult to explain what's going on with a sound with words. The fact is that one's reaction would be individual when faced to such a kind of situation. To this one, the D18 would be better and to that one the HB would be the best. IMHO, the Hummingbird is definetely the Queen of them all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-minor7 Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 I can agree with this statement entirely. What i find real amazing is the big difference between the Martin D18 & the Gibson Hummingbird whilst both of them are spruce tops and mahogany back and sides and they sound definetely not the same despite this: i have realized this the very day i had the opportunity to try them both. Nevertheless, it remains quite difficult to explain what's going on with a sound with words. The fact is that one's reaction would be individual when faced to such a kind of situation. To this one, the D18 would be better and to that one the HB would be the best. IMHO, the Hummingbird is definetely the Queen of them all. Well spoken - but don't forget the 2 have different scale-length. And of course that the respective brands make their bread from bein' different and caring a lot this basic fact. Someone here had a daring and highly abstract moment a couple if years ago when claiming Marts were rooted in Spanish guitars and Gibsons in archtops. The Board must have room for wild shooting theories like this and if nothing else, the idea shows a picture. Apart from that I wonder why no one mentions the types of projection. In my (humble) view and ear-canals there is a vital clue there. Oh, and Mr. Smith. , , , , perhaps the HB is a queen, yes, but talking royalty, have you played a Firebird ? 2015 ~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Owl Smith Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 Well spoken - but don't forget the 2 have different scale-length. And of course that the respective brands make their bread from bein' different and caring a lot this basic fact. Someone here had a daring and highly abstract moment a couple if years ago when claiming Marts were rooted in Spanish guitars and Gibsons in archtops. The Board must have room for wild shooting theories like this and if nothing else, the idea shows a picture. Apart from that I wonder why no one mentions the types of projection. In my (humble) view and ear-canals there is a vital clue there. Oh, and Mr. Smith. , , , , perhaps the HB is a queen, yes, but talking royalty, have you played a Firebird ? 2015 ~ Thanks for your words. As regarding wild theories available here & there on guitars, sometimes one can hear or read things that sound curious; what matters the most is what your own pair of ears can feel and one's personal judgement would have a proper ground on that but one basis: the individual would judge in first and last resort. As regarding the types of projection, the fact is that kinda thing remains quite difficult to explain with words: i'm aware this argument sounds rather disappointing, but projection is quite a difficult thing to deal with because this is one thing when a player hears the sound of the guitar they're playing here & now and this would be something quite different when guitar is played by someone else. The fact is when you hear a D18 and a HB, the both projections are quite present, obvious, certainly significant but definetely different, because the volume and the timbers of them both guitars are not the same, and articulation would differ as well. As far i can remember, projection delivered by the D18 remains big, quite direct, immediate, almost nervous, responsive & brilliant especially trebles which sound very clear (as regarding bass strings, the fact is their sound is quite moderate & that's the main point). On the other hand, projection delivered by a HB seems much more complex, rich and very warm: shades are much more subtle, this lady is truly responsive and bass strings sound big, profound and noble. As regarding your question about the Firebird, the answer is negative. At this point i'm not sure that anything would ever match a HB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinder Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 Em7, that Firebird of yours is majestic. Would love to track one down somewhere along the tracks to complete the aviary here at Jinder Towers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blindboygrunt Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 Em7, that Firebird of yours is majestic. Would love to track one down somewhere along the tracks to complete the aviary here at Jinder Towers... Jinder , you’re a tart You can’t have them all !! 😂😂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EuroAussie Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 Jinder , you’re a tart You can’t have them all !! 😂😂 Or can you ... ? Ahm, Tom ... ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinder Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 Jinder , you’re a tart You can’t have them all !! 😂😂 Haha I can’t have them all...but I can WANT them all!! 😂 I’m just a sucker for big Maple boxes with pretty stuff on. I had someone complain the other day about me bringing my Texan to a gig, the chap said “I was expecting one of your cowboy guitars with all the glamorous stuff on like I’ve seen you playing in the past, how am I supposed to imagine lonesome prairies when you’re playing such a plain guitar?” I didn’t know quite how to respond...he had the type of Lancashire accent where you can’t quite figure if the owner of said accent is all jokey bonhomie or actually poised to commit manslaughter! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-minor7 Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 As regarding the types of projection, the fact is that kinda thing remains quite difficult to explain with words: i'm aware this argument sounds rather disappointing, but projection is quite a difficult thing to deal with because this is one thing when a player hears the sound of the guitar they're playing here & now and this would be something quite different when guitar is played by someone else. Yes, the difference between hearing a guitar while playing and sitting in front of it is baffling - and sometimes we tend to forget. Not seldom I let my pals get behind one of my acoustics to hear it 1 1/2 meter away, , , , , eeeeh usually kind of strange. But I tend to be very sensitive to various types of projection and always notice how much room a box brings out. To my ears'n'feel the H-birds are 'shallower' than the J-45's and definitely the F-bird not to mention, , , , the Dove. Still that's a virtue I like a lot about the Hummingbird : It 1 to 1 shows you what it's given - no way of hiding there (might not be seen that way by fx Jinder) Em7, that Firebird of yours is majestic. Would love to track one down somewhere along the tracks to complete the aviary here at Jinder Towers... Thanx ^ it is a castle-guitar and much more so than a wild street-jiver. And it's necessary to be aware of that specific power. It must be handled with precision else the grand mother takes over and leaves you quite foolish. Thus one has to be in the mood for a Firebird. It's not the guitar grabbed for loose doodling. But knowing your skills, there's no reason why you wouldn't enjoy it. See if you can find one for a test-flight - and take my words when I say it's not a Dove at all. I frequently experience it as the queen, , , if not the King of my entire herd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuanCarlosVejar Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 Well spoken - but don't forget the 2 have different scale-length. And of course that the respective brands make their bread from bein' different and caring a lot this basic fact. Someone here had a daring and highly abstract moment a couple if years ago when claiming Marts were rooted in Spanish guitars and Gibsons in archtops. The Board must have room for wild shooting theories like this and if nothing else, the idea shows a picture. Apart from that I wonder why no one mentions the types of projection. In my (humble) view and ear-canals there is a vital clue there. Oh, and Mr. Smith. , , , , perhaps the HB is a queen, yes, but talking royalty, have you played a Firebird ? 2015 ~ Em7, Often times I have said an Hbird is all a man may ever need (even though I am a maple guy through and through) but your Firebird (and acoustic firebirds in general) make me want to change my mind haha! Would you do a youtube demo for us? Thanks JC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-28 Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 Well spoken - but don't forget the 2 have different scale-length. And of course that the respective brands make their bread from bein' different and caring a lot this basic fact. Someone here had a daring and highly abstract moment a couple if years ago when claiming Marts were rooted in Spanish guitars and Gibsons in archtops. The Board must have room for wild shooting theories like this and if nothing else, the idea shows a picture. Apart from that I wonder why no one mentions the types of projection. In my (humble) view and ear-canals there is a vital clue there. Oh, and Mr. Smith. , , , , perhaps the HB is a queen, yes, but talking royalty, have you played a Firebird ? 2015 ~ That is one nice acoustic there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-minor7 Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 Would you do a youtube demo for us? This one has been up before, but at your request. The test clearly shows the extra power compared to the HB, but the recording has too much bass. The F-bird surely has a lot of low end, but not as overwhelming like here. Another interesting thing is that the F doesn't produce the same aerosol of overtones we would hear from the rather similar Dove. It's as if the F is straighter, yet with the same rich projection - as mentioned earlier, much more embracing than the tighter and focused Hummingbird. My playing is restless - guess I was excited about the new flier, , , (eeeehh, besides restlessness has been among my weaker spots). But here we go - https://soundcloud.c...firebird-custom That is one nice acoustic there. ✓ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 This one has been up before, but at your request. The test clearly shows the extra power compared to the HB, but the recording has too much bass. The F-bird surely has a lot of low end, but not as overwhelming like here. Another interesting thing is that the F doesn't produce the same aerosol of overtones we would hear from the rather similar Dove. It's as if the F is straighter, yet with the same rich projection - as mentioned earlier, much more embracing than the tighter and focused Hummingbird. My playing is restless - guess I was excited about the new flier, , , (eeeehh, besides restlessness has been among my weaker spots). But here we go - https://soundcloud.c...firebird-custom That's one powerful guitar. I remember this recording from a few years ago. A bit bass-heavy on the Winwood tune, but it makes you pay attention. What tuning are you in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorrisrownSal Posted March 8, 2018 Author Share Posted March 8, 2018 I remember that recording as well... powerful guitar indeed. best part when Em sings a bit near the end. Great voice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-minor7 Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 I remember that recording as well... powerful guitar indeed. best part when Em sings a bit near the end. Great voice. Thanx guys ^ Nick - as you probably sense, the tuning is the usual half step down w. the bass further dropped to D (C#) Btw. the guitar has opened up quite a lot since then. Born in December 2010 it's now approaching the 8th year - that's when things begin to blossom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 Thanx guys ^ Nick - as you probably sense, the tuning is the usual half step down w. the bass further dropped to D (C#) I thought that might be the case. That low E string rattles quite a bit when it's down to C#. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-minor7 Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 I thought that might be the case. That low E string rattles quite a bit when it's down to C#. 'Xcactly, , , and that's the way I like it. The last half of the take actually shows how I wan't the low E to respond to certain hard punches, , , with drama. So the buzzz is right, but bass-volume is too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 'Xcactly, , , and that's the way I like it. The last half of the take actually shows how I wan't the low E to respond to certain hard punches, , , with drama. So the buzzz is right, but bass-volume is too much. Agreed. The rattle isn't distracting: it's part of the character of the guitar. The bass is a bit overwhelming at times, however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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