Gary Moore Tribute Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 Just posted by Gibson... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWHZoAI8xcw Their are 2 more parts to this UlXWOsqMENc & jXRIbhl3z5c (Sorry about the code but I couldn't add multiple links ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cam011235 Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 Yeah it is shocking what has happened i just cant believe it..i am not american but it makes me angry that they treat there own this way it is terrible ..what is wrong with the government there? we dont want indian made guitars we want american made yet there are bureaucrats that are targeting american companies the raid was not about woods it was about labour hope gibson get through this hope that people dont lose jobs and hope that gibson stay american made what has happened is totally wrong and i will give my support even more to gibson as a result i feel sorry for american people it must be a real worry for them seeing this if it was happening here i would be very worried Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojjett Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 I think Gibson should make it's case a little louder. What bothers me most but not only, is the police state mentality that has arisen scince 9-11. i.e. comando style raids merely to instill fear. Treating honest laborers, citizens, like they're criminals or enemies. I can understand the worry about forests, but this type of action won't deter that. Simply because there's a whole world out there. There has to be a better way of handling this. But leave it to the government bureaucrats & their trained pitbulls to do it this way. :angry: BTW, 2012 is an election year, & employment is going to be a very big issue! Good luck Gibson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malchik Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 What, so they just took all their wood? Did the government find evidence they were using unauthorized lumber? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigKahune Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 What, so they just took all their wood? Did the government find evidence they were using unauthorized lumber? That was Madagascar ebony confiscated in the 2009 raid. In 2011 confiscations included Indian rosewood blanks, guitars, computers, and records. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitefly Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 I think Gibson should make it's case a little louder. What bothers me most but not only, is the police state mentality that has arisen scince 9-11. i.e. comando style raids merely to instill fear. Treating honest laborers, citizens, like they're criminals or enemies. I can understand the worry about forests, but this type of action won't deter that. Simply because there's a whole world out there. There has to be a better way of handling this. But leave it to the government bureaucrats & their trained pitbulls to do it this way. :angry: BTW, 2012 is an election year, & employment is going to be a very big issue! Good luck Gibson. +1 Is brute force and ignorance the way to deal with honest civilians who are just trying to earn some money to support themselves and their families? Has the government there never heard of the term "inquest"? Clearly a civilized approach is not part of their vocabulary! Forgive my ranting but we are talking about an armed raid on a Guitar manufacture!! IMO Gibson stakes a solid claim to American heritage in providing best in class workmanship and innovation since its founding in 1894. It is one of the reasons why I have always wanted a Gibson and if manufacturing were to go off shore I am not so sure I would be that interested in buying another. I want it American made, that's where it belongs! That said, there is always two sides to every story but even if Gibson were in the wrong I can't see why the action taken was deemed necessary. I just hope the outcome for Gibson and their employees is a positive one, good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btoth76 Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 Hi all! Let me share a few thoughts too. First: that kind of manners of authorities are clearly result of the sad 9/11 tragedy, and it's like this all over the world now (here in my small country too). My country has survived quite a few occupations, dictatorships, that always came with militant terror - I felt on my skin what it's like. I am very sad to see where US is heading right now. Don't let it happen! That's the bolshevik way, which is the worst nightmare for humanity. Again, don't let politians use up a tragedy to thread on human rights. As for the second thing I would like to say: harassing small/middle business enterprises is how bolshevism in eastern Europe began in late 40's. Again the signs of the same thing! They want to destroy such businesses to make common people more fragile. They want slaves to work in big industry sectors supervised by the government, instead of skilled people being employed by stand-alone companies. The elder people in eastern Europe used to say in the 80's: by the time we will see "democracy" in our countries, the USA will become a communist state! My last thoughts about this: todays liberals are who will become the bloody leaders of red dictatorship. That's the moral of history, that's how it always been. Take care for Your people and Your country! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angellus Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 theres more to it than that otherwise why have Fender and PRS not been raided in the same way over an international law that india itself is not looking to uphold? The whole indian rosewood needing to be worked in India is an excuse for the goverment to attack Gibson in this way. What it really comes down to is politics and money. Gibson is not making political contributions to the "right" political party. I hope things work themselves out there aint nothing like a Gibson and im going over to america next year to pick my next left handed Les Paul direct from the factory. I have signed the petition have you? https://www.change.org/petitions/the-president-of-the-united-states-resolve-gibson-guitar-inquiry-protect-consumers-and-make-lacey-act-fair lets fill it up with names Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cam011235 Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 That was Madagascar ebony confiscated in the 2009 raid. In 2011 confiscations included Indian rosewood blanks, guitars, computers, and records. yeah its bad this time it has crippled them..they have lost all computers and hard drives..there seems to be a vendetta ..i heard a podcast about it and its seems that this raid could be a bit of a reaction to the 2009 raid..apparently the ebony being sourced from madagscar is only illegal if from the state forest and there is no actual way the feds can prove this so they cannot charge or prove their case..gibson go by the books through a middle man importer and try to do the right thing...naturally gibson asking for the woods to be returned it is possible there is a bit of a vendetta from this situation in 2009 Evidently one of the middle men involved in the wood imports has had some doubts cast over him by feds but nothing proved i think this is why they became difficult in the first place ..it wasnt gibson it was the middle man importer...evidently what happened with the later raid the feds funny because the way the paper work was handled on the import ..the importer brought the wood in and gibson went through him choosing which woods they want..this was enough to make the feds touchy as the paperwork didnt have the gibson name on it..just the importer..which isnt illegal but may make them touchy particularly after the failed 2009 raid it seems that it comes down to interpretation of laws that the feds have chosen to take a subjective interpretation om some aspects of the lacey act and that there is a vendetta against gibson possibly from the failure of the 2009 raid this stinks of bureaucratic inefficiency and departmental prejudice against a respected american company i feel the american people are entitled to be concerned and angry about this situation this rosewood would not have been an issue if it was finished india so it was by interpretation not about the wood but where the labour is done..so who wants an indian made guitar? i want american made ..the government has really messed up here attacking an american company in this way.. they really should be ashamed of themselves..they are putting jobs and a company at stake at a time when their economy is struggling there is something really wrong here also with restricted woods it was advised that traveling with brazilian rosewood guitar would not be advised i have heard if you try to bring one into my country customs will be all over you big time..some old guitars with these types of woods and or ivory etc could fall foul of customs and would require documentation to explain the material or be better of left at home an individual traveling with a guitar such as this in the states is exempt as it is regarded as part of their luggage and is exempt from the lacey act of prohibited animal or plant products..however travelling internationally may be different some customs may have a different version gibson has done nothing wrong or illegal yet the feds has chosen to go this path..it is a very sad day to see this hope gibson gets justice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cam011235 Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 theres more to it than that otherwise why have Fender and PRS not been raided in the same way over an international law that india itself is not looking to uphold? i have signed the petition i think there is a vendetta against gibson from the 2009 raid ..you see the feds failed there..madagascar ebony is only illegal if from a state forest and there is no way that fed can prove it is or isnt from state forest so no legal action could precede gibson never targeted wood from these ares and depended on a middle man importer to source these woods i think the problem is the middle man the feds had some ideas about him but nothing was proved so this is a vendetta from their failed 2009 raid i think to a point they are seriously messed up these feds they have made a huge mistake i am very angry about it it is sad seeing this i feel sorry for people living in america seeing this happen to their country i would be very worried if i saw it happen here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badbluesplayer Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 Most of the axe grinding around here takes place in the lounge. How about posting this stuff over there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitefly Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 theres more to it than that otherwise why have Fender and PRS not been raided in the same way over an international law that india itself is not looking to uphold? The whole indian rosewood needing to be worked in India is an excuse for the goverment to attack Gibson in this way. What it really comes down to is politics and money. Gibson is not making political contributions to the "right" political party. I hope things work themselves out there aint nothing like a Gibson and im going over to america next year to pick my next left handed Les Paul direct from the factory. I have signed the petition have you? https://www.change.org/petitions/the-president-of-the-united-states-resolve-gibson-guitar-inquiry-protect-consumers-and-make-lacey-act-fair lets fill it up with names Signed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metalrulez Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 Signed. Screw Obummer and his thugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitefly Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 theres more to it than that otherwise why have Fender and PRS not been raided in the same way over an international law that india itself is not looking to uphold? The whole indian rosewood needing to be worked in India is an excuse for the goverment to attack Gibson in this way. What it really comes down to is politics and money. Gibson is not making political contributions to the "right" political party. I hope things work themselves out there aint nothing like a Gibson and im going over to america next year to pick my next left handed Les Paul direct from the factory. I have signed the petition have you? https://www.change.org/petitions/the-president-of-the-united-states-resolve-gibson-guitar-inquiry-protect-consumers-and-make-lacey-act-fair lets fill it up with names Hi Angelus, Hey I was curious. How is that you are able to go to the factory to get your next guitar? Have you come to some arrangement with your local dealer and are just going to the factory to choose your new axe. Just curious. Thanks Nitefly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angellus Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 on their website it says they have a shop at the nashville site Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Moore Tribute Posted September 15, 2011 Author Share Posted September 15, 2011 3 More Videos up http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wk2Wk289u48 YbAWfwtCr9g & Ixgpx-7hI5I (Again can't add multiple links sorry)) I have to say personally I feel this dispute is DAFT, it seems to boil down to Indian law exporting WOOD that is unfinished compared to a VENEER, thing is how thin does wood have to be before its a veneer? So it has NOTHING to do with US law and Gibson haven't even been charged with anything! (From either raid) Come on Feds spend your citizens tax money on mush more important issues... Update MORE ADDED! jO_cvfXdY5A, KyYV7Uz5mks & v3RgsNqBLpM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken374 Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 we lost a lot jobs here in Michigan, been off work for over 2 yrs! I do shipping, manufacturing has always been big now we lost millions of jobs. The bull **** now its like if you been out of work for so long they dont even want to talk to ya! this goverment and who is responsible for letting jobs go I can kick there ***! Every country doing this now, giving china all the work! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
straybeat Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 That was Madagascar ebony confiscated in the 2009 raid. In 2011 confiscations included Indian rosewood blanks, guitars, computers, and records. I find all of this to be baloney. I have spent the last 15 years or so being forced by my employers to find vendors in China, India and Mexico (and I didn't like a minute of it). When something comes from China or India it has to be accompanied by a stack of paperwork signed off by both countries (here and there). Not so much from Mexico since it's just crossing the border, generally just a declaration of what the parts are, what they are made out of and where they came from. If I had a dollar for every wrongly made, worthless part I had to send back to be remade I'd be a very rich man! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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