Raising The Action

[jchabalk]

I had my SJ-200 set up a few years ago and got the action set up a little on the low side. It was the right thing at the time but now i'd like it to be a bit higher. I'm getting a good deal of string buzz, especially if i use a capo.

 

What do you guys recommend? Should i just add a shim and call it a day? Or replace the saddle? The idea of a shim never really seems right to me but 1) i've never done it and 2) it seems like a pretty regular and accepted way of raising the action.

 

I suppose i could always get a few shims, use them to find the right height and then make up a new saddle at that height.

[jedzep]

I've used the method to find a desired new height before replacement with a saddle on my B25 and my D18. Instead of shimming the entire length I used 2 quarter inch long pieces of ebony to raise the saddle on two 'feet', placed a little in from the orig saddle ends. In both cases I replaced the saddle eventually, but the B25 actually sounded noticeably brighter after the temp arrangement. You can also shim with old saddle material, cut and sanded to fit.

[Versatile]

Personal preference is for shim adjustment...

 

Other aspects to consider are string gauge and neck relief...both can affect string height/playability...

 

Happiness is a well set up guitar...

 

V

 

[RusRob]

I say replace. In theory the saddle should sit completely to the bottom of the saddle slot and the slot should be almost to the bottom of the bridge. This gives you enough material to support the forward tension on the saddle to keep it from splitting the bridge. By placing shims under the saddle you are raising the pivot point of the forward torque and increasing the possibility of splitting the bridge. Also more contact surface between the saddle and the bridge should give better vibration transfer into your soundboard.

 

Now that is the theory but as with anything, individual results will vary, neck scale, strings, guitar and how you play are the variables in that equation.

 

But I would opt for replacement.

[zombywoof]

I tend to like a higher action so am never really happy with most guitars when I first get my hands on them. I would just shim it until you get a new saddle slapped in it. Stewmac offers a nifty set of bolt like things that hold the strings in the bridge so you test the action before you do the final setup.

[Run]

Quote:

"I say replace. In theory the saddle should sit completely to the bottom of the saddle slot and the slot should be almost to the bottom of the bridge. This gives you enough material to support the forward tension on the saddle to keep it from splitting the bridge. By placing shims under the saddle you are raising the pivot point of the forward torque and increasing the possibility of splitting the bridge. Also more contact surface between the saddle and the bridge should give better vibration transfer into your soundboard. "

 

I agree with this and would a shim work well sitting on a piezo pickup ? Installing a new saddle is not a big deal if it's done carefully.

[strat-o-steve]

Nothing wrong with the shim method. If you just can't wrap your head around the idea of using shims, some guitarists have a few additional saddles made for their guitars so when the weather changes, they can simply swap out the saddles for a higher or lower one accordingly.

[Dave F]

I would check the neck bow first. I usually set mine between .000" to .005" before I make a saddle and I set my action very, very low.

 

I have a few saddles for some of my guitars that tend to move with the seasons.

 

Sometimes humidity will change them a little bit so I just give the old truss rod a 1/4 turn and everythings okay.

 

They do sell bone material for shims that they recommend you glue to the existing saddle.

[RusRob]

I suppose i could always get a few shims, use them to find the right height and then make up a new saddle at that height.

 

 

It sounds like you answered your own question right there.

 

Personally that is the only time I have ever used a shim under a saddle. I have had a couple of clients that have wanted to change the action on their guitars much like you do. It is pretty easy to throw a couple of shims in, have them play it and adjust it to the hight they want and then make a new saddle accordingly.

 

 

If you opt for making a new saddle it is really easy when you have the old one. Just shim it to the hight you want using strips of veneer or even cardboard. Find the hight you want and then take the bridge out and lay it over your new blank and trace the top curve over it. I use 180 grit sticky paper stuck down to a piece of 1/4 plate glass. Hold the new saddle and run it across the sandpaper in long smooth strokes only going it one direction. get the curve close to the pencil line and then switch to 240 grit. At that point I hold the saddle against a square piece of wood laid on the sandpaper to make sure I have a nice square edge on the new crown.

 

When you get up to your line then look at your old bridge and look at it from the side and see how rounded the top is. match the same profile as your old bridge. Then finish it off with some 400 git and then 800, 1000 and finally 1200. That will put a nice smooth surface on the top of the bridge for your strings. Now the only thing you have to do is match the correct hight with your shims by sanding the bottom of the saddle. (don't try to sand the top down to get to your final hight).

 

It should only take about 10 minutes and you will be playing. You may want to leave it just a bit higher than you actually want it and play it for a little while. You can always run it over the sandpaper a few times to fine tune it to your exact hight. Remember do not try and cheat by sanding the top of the saddle, only sand the bottom.

 

It is pretty simple and you you can easily make a couple different ones for seasonal changes Your saddle should come out easily with very little effort. If it is hard to get out then it is too thick and you should thin it down until it can be pulled out with just 2 fingers.

 

 

@ Dave F, I would never glue in a saddle. I have run across a couple that have been glued in and it serves no purpose other than making it a PITA to replace.

[Dave F]

I don't glue the saddle to the bridge. I glue bone to bone to give me a taller saddle to work with. I very seldom do that. I normally just make a new one. I keep a lot of blanks with the top radius ready to finish off

[RusRob]

Ahhh... I guess I misunderstood what you said. Yes you can glue bone to bone with a little CA glue and that does work well. I have cut slots in a nut a little too deep before and I just sand off a little bone from a scrap and re-fill the slot and re-cut it.

 

Although there are some that glue the saddle in to the bridge. I have usually found it in saddles that are slotted all the way through the drop off on the bridge sides. It looks nice to have a shaped saddle but they are a pain to remove. The last one I did I ended up breaking the saddle in pieces to get it out and ended up scratching the bridge up in the process.

[j45nick]

Although there are some that glue the saddle in to the bridge. I have usually found it in saddles that are slotted all the way through the drop off on the bridge sides. It looks nice to have a shaped saddle but they are a pain to remove. The last one I did I ended up breaking the saddle in pieces to get it out and ended up scratching the bridge up in the process.

 

 

A slot-through saddle can be a little bit of a pain at string-changing time, but you can always use a bit of blue tape to hold in position until you get a couple of strings on it if necessary. I do prefer the look of a slot-through saddle, and have them on all my Gibson flat-tops.

[Hotfoot]

A Fender Acoustic Bass I once owned came with instructions for shimming the bridge (which was a piezio pickup, and recommended using business card strips. The thinking being that the cards do not compress, and are really only wood, anyways. I've used this method on at least a dozen guitars with satisfactory results. I use my Friskar paper cutter to cut the strips. Easy and cheap...just like Old Wanda!

[Dave F]

A Fender Acoustic Bass I once owned came with instructions for shimming the bridge (which was a piezio pickup, and recommended using business card strips. The thinking being that the cards do not compress, and are really only wood, anyways. I've used this method on at least a dozen guitars with satisfactory results. I use my Friskar paper cutter to cut the strips. Easy and cheap...just like Old Wanda!

An ovation I just sold came with a pack of shims.

[RusRob]

An ovation I just sold came with a pack of shims.

 

 

Well there you go...

 

I am not sure that many luthiers would agree that shimming a saddle is the proper way to do it but just like everything else, ask 20 people what they think and you will get 20 different answers.

 

I don't think there is a right or wrong way in doing anything as long as the end results are the same.

[E-minor7]

I pushed shim to underline that it's a fair solution as long as we're talking minor variations.

Wonder if it works over 2 1/2 mm. Probably.

A new saddle of course is #1 - tho not always necessary.