Gibson Tour Bus

[AnneS]

So I saw that the bus was going to be at my local store and decided to go see if it was carrying any fun models to try, etc. They weren't--there were, like, two electtrics and an Epi acoustic. Not worth keeping the bus air conditioned, imo, but I digress...

 

I frequent the shop from time to time and try out whatever's hanging up. A couple of months ago, I tried the J-35 and found it to be nice enough (but with not nearly enough low end to temp me), yet it seemed the action was weirdly high. One of the guys agreed, but my glance then was cursory, given that I was bewitched by the very lovely J-45 next to it.

 

So today, I decide to try both guitars again, and the minute I get the J-35 into my hands to look at the string height (or whatever was giving me the illusion thereof), I see the problem. And kind of want to bust out laughing... I show it to one of the guys and ask "What's wrong with this picture?" He's inspecting it when the head Gibson bus guy walks up, and after a minute or so, they see it, too: Dang if the saddle wasn't laying in there, upside down!

 

The bus guy whipped out his phone for a picture, asked the shop guy for the invoice date and said "I'm going to find out who let it leave the factory that way."

 

We were all a little incredulous that it has been hanging there since March and no one noticed it. (If I'd only looked more closely the first time...) The Gibson guy was, to his credit, a bit peeved, but in the end, we all had a few laughs about how compensated A strings are the "in" thing and can really help your badly-intonated bar chording sound even worse.

 

Fun interlude, at any rate.

[j45nick]

I'm betting heads will not roll...... but it sort of re-validates a common theme.

[zombywoof]

The "Gibson guy" was a bit peeved but never noticed it. Must have been one of those Certified Gibson Acoustic Specialists that I read about on another forum.

[AnneS]

The "Gibson guy" was a bit peeved but never noticed it. Must have been one of those Certified Gibson Acoustic Specialists that I read about on another forum.

To be somewhat fair, the 'Gibson guy' in the story arrived with the bus a few hours before and likely had neither the time nor inclination to inspect the store's inventory. The shop guys, imo, have some egg on their faces, though.

[michaeljohnr]

Crap.

 

That's embarrassing.

[Jerry K]

It's possible it came from the factory like that but I doubt it. You have to see the workstations where they do the setup and the final inspection station to understand why it's not too likely (for one thing they test every string on every fret in the final inspection. It would be hard not to notice). If the guitar has been in the shop several months the strings have probably been changed and someone in the shop has probably messed with it.

[guitarstrummer]

It's possible it came from the factory like that but I doubt it. You have to see the workstations where they do the setup and the final inspection station to understand why it's not too likely (for one thing they test every string on every fret in the final inspection. It would be hard not to notice). If the guitar has been in the shop several months the strings have probably been changed and someone in the shop has probably messed with it.

 

I agree, possible but not probable. I wouldn't think the pick-up would even work with the saddle upside down, meaning they couldn't even check the electrics at the factory to make sure they worked. For it to come from the factory like that there would have to of been several people in the process who didn't spot it. A more likely explanation is that the strings were changed at the store and the saddle fell out during the string change and it was put back in upside down. I know my saddles have fallen out several times during string changes.

[retrorod]

So I saw that the bus was going to be at my local store and decided to go see if it was carrying any fun models to try, etc. They weren't--there were, like, two electtrics and an Epi acoustic. Not worth keeping the bus air conditioned, imo, but I digress...

 

I frequent the shop from time to time and try out whatever's hanging up. A couple of months ago, I tried the J-35 and found it to be nice enough (but with not nearly enough low end to temp me), yet it seemed the action was weirdly high. One of the guys agreed, but my glance then was cursory, given that I was bewitched by the very lovely J-45 next to it.

 

So today, I decide to try both guitars again, and the minute I get the J-35 into my hands to look at the string height (or whatever was giving me the illusion thereof), I see the problem. And kind of want to bust out laughing... I show it to one of the guys and ask "What's wrong with this picture?" He's inspecting it when the head Gibson bus guy walks up, and after a minute or so, they see it, too: Dang if the saddle wasn't laying in there, upside down!

 

The bus guy whipped out his phone for a picture, asked the shop guy for the invoice date and said "I'm going to find out who let it leave the factory that way."

 

We were all a little incredulous that it has been hanging there since March and no one noticed it. (If I'd only looked more closely the first time...) The Gibson guy was, to his credit, a bit peeved, but in the end, we all had a few laughs about how compensated A strings are the "in" thing and can really help your badly-intonated bar chording sound even worse.

 

Fun interlude, at any rate.

 

Good eye, Anne...

[retrorod]

I agree, possible but not probable. I wouldn't think the pick-up would even work with the saddle upside down, meaning they couldn't even check the electrics at the factory to make sure they worked. For it to come from the factory like that there would have to of been several people in the process who didn't spot it. A more likely explanation is that the strings were changed at the store and the saddle fell out during the string change and it was put back in upside down. I know my saddles have fallen out several times during string changes.

 

Do we know if it had a UST installed?

[rar]

I wouldn't think the pick-up would even work with the saddle upside down, meaning they couldn't even check the electrics at the factory to make sure they worked.

The comment on A-string compensation makes me think that, by "upside-down", Anne meant what I would have called "reversed in the slot". (At first, I thought -- as you evidently did -- that "upside-down" meant the flat side that is normally in contact with the transducer was in contact with the strings. That would, I agree, mess up pickup response pretty badly. But then I got to the part about the A-string.) This would negatively affect intonation of the A- and B-strings, but not necessarily to the extent that you'd hear it when playing scales. I agree that it's a lot likelier to have happened in the shop, either during a string change or an attempt to lower the saddle, than at the factory though. However, I don't find it surprising at all that no one caught it -- it's pretty subtle -- and fail to see why anyone would consider it a big deal.

 

Why in the world should anyone's "head roll" as a result of this? One trivial mistake and you should get the axe, huh? Seems like it would be pretty tough finding enough perfect people to hire if that were the policy.

 

-- Bob R

.

[guitarstrummer]

Do we know if it had a UST installed?

Pretty sure they all come with UST installed.

[guitarstrummer]

The comment on A-string compensation makes me think that, by "upside-down", Anne meant what I would have called "reversed in the slot". (At first, I thought -- as you evidently did -- that "upside-down" meant the flat side that is normally in contact with the transducer was in contact with the strings. That would, I agree, mess up pickup response pretty badly. But then I got to the part about the A-string.) This would negatively affect intonation of the A- and B-strings, but not necessarily to the extent that you'd hear it when playing scales. I agree that it's a lot likelier to have happened in the shop, either during a string change or an attempt to lower the saddle, than at the factory though. However, I don't find it surprising at all that no one caught it -- it's pretty subtle -- and fail to see why anyone would consider it a big deal.

 

-- Bob R

.

That sounds more probable. I saw the comment about the compensated A string but when she said it was upside down I figured the saddle was actually upside down too and the A string side would be lower because of the way the saddle fit in the slot?????

[j45nick]

 

Why in the world should anyone's "head roll" as a result of this? One trivial mistake and you should get the axe, huh? Seems like it would be pretty tough finding enough perfect people to hire if that were the policy.

 

-- Bob R

.

 

 

Surely you understand that the "heads won't roll" comment was tongue in cheek. Nonetheless, someone should be a bit embarrassed, since as Anne points out, the action was unusually high as a result of the reversed saddle, and it had been that way for a couple of months.

 

I can imagine someone less knowledgeable than Anne picking up the guitar and trying to play it, saying "sheesh, the action on this Gibson really sucks'. Thus, are legends born and myths created: "The J-35 is really hard to play".

[Jerry K]

Reversed in the slot, ok could have come that way from the factory. Upside-down would be hard to credit. I thought I remembered seeing little laser measuring devices for compensation/setup at the setup stations.

[guitarstrummer]

I would still find it unusual for a person who installs saddles all day long, every day, to install one reversed.

[j45nick]

I would still find it unusual for a person who installs saddles all day long, every day, to install one reversed.

 

Repetitive task = boredom = mistakes are made

[onewilyfool]

 

 

So today, I decide to try both guitars again, and the minute I get the J-35 into my hands to look at the string height (or whatever was giving me the illusion thereof), I see the problem. And kind of want to bust out laughing... I show it to one of the guys and ask "What's wrong with this picture?" He's inspecting it when the head Gibson bus guy walks up, and after a minute or so, they see it, too: Dang if the saddle wasn't laying in there, upside down!

 

The bus guy whipped out his phone for a picture, asked the shop guy for the invoice date and said "I'm going to find out who let it leave the factory that way."

 

We were all a little incredulous that it has been hanging there since March and no one noticed it. (If I'd only looked more closely the first time...) The Gibson guy was, to his credit, a bit peeved, but in the end, we all had a few laughs about how compensated A strings are the "in" thing and can really help your badly-intonated bar chording sound even worse.

 

Fun interlude, at any rate.

Anne, Anne, Anne......That is NOT a factory problem......That happens because of improper Humidity!!!!

[AnneS]

The comment on A-string compensation makes me think that, by "upside-down", Anne meant what I would have called "reversed in the slot". (At first, I thought -- as you evidently did -- that "upside-down" meant the flat side that is normally in contact with the transducer was in contact with the strings. That would, I agree, mess up pickup response pretty badly. But then I got to the part about the A-string.) This would negatively affect intonation of the A- and B-strings, but not necessarily to the extent that you'd hear it when playing scales. I agree that it's a lot likelier to have happened in the shop, either during a string change or an attempt to lower the saddle, than at the factory though. However, I don't find it surprising at all that no one caught it -- it's pretty subtle -- and fail to see why anyone would consider it a big deal.

 

-- Bob R

Exactlly, Bob--"reversed" is what I should have said, But since I played it within days of its arrival at the store (in mid-March) and noted the weird string height, I do not think it was wrongly strung at the store. Today, I specifically looked at it because I remembered the issue...it looked the same, and now we know why.

 

I played it back in March and it sounded okay, but like I said, it was the J-45 that I was more focused on. Still, the J-35 looked and sounded much better after the saddle was re-seated and the right string was compensated.

[Guth]

I thought I remembered seeing little laser measuring devices for compensation/setup at the setup stations.

 

Obviously someone had installed the batteries backwards in the laser measuring device used at the station that this particular J-35 passed through.

[Jerry K]

I believe they do have something set up to check things like compensation in an automated way. I will look through my photos for it.

 

The final inspector measures action, too, so it isn't that easy to get out the door with reversed saddle.

[rar]

But since I played it within days of its arrival at the store (in mid-March) and noted the weird string height, I do not think it was wrongly strung at the store.

There are shops that routinely do a "set up" -- consisting of sanding the saddle a bit and maybe giving the truss rod a tweak -- when new guitars come in, and it reversing the saddle would be a really easy thing to do in this process. I have no idea whether this shop is one of them, but that's why it seemed plausible to me that it could have happened at the shop even though the guitar was new. I think Jerry's right about the intonation check at the factory, but I can kind of see how it could have happened there too -- say, an initial final inspection failure due to a finish flaw, the saddle getting reversed when the flaw was fixed, and a second "final inspection" mostly consisting of a check that the flaw was fixed. This would mean that someone other than the regular final inspector did the second final inspection, but that happens. (And, speaking of final inspection in Bozeman, Go Cubs!!)

 

I don't see it much matters where it happened, anyway, since it seems like the problem was due to random human error rather than flawed process.

 

-- Bob R

[Jerry K]

Anne, Anne, Anne......That is NOT a factory problem......That happens because of improper Humidity!!!!

 

There is something broken and lacking in a person who acquires the products of artisans and craftsmen, extolls the virtues of these objects and then refuses to accord their makers any respect and instead constantly assumes the worst of them and for many years showers them with abuse. Haven't you ever wondered why everyone who has spent time around the factory feels so uncomfortable with the way you talk about Gibson Acoustic? For you the company is some monolithic entity, devoid of feeling, always trying to rip you off. For us those workers are dozens of people, real people in whose presence you would be ashamed to say the things you say here.

[onewilyfool]

Jerry K....you are really a tragic person.....clearly, this was meant as a JOKE you silly man!!!! So, YOU'VE toured the factory, great, now you can walk on water when it comes to anything Gibson??? Unfortunately, I've only taken the video tour that is on line. BUT, I have more Gibson's than YOU!!! So, based on your logic, I am a BIGGER Gibson fan than YOU!!! Of course, one day, I can only hope and aspire to have as many as 23 Gibson's as some of the other fans on the forum, BUT I'm there in spirit!! I'm trying....I'm doing my best.....please help me to be a bigger Gibson fan, these personal attacks are REALLY helping.....

[j45nick]

There is something broken and lacking in a person who acquires the products of artisans and craftsmen, extolls the virtues of these objects and then refuses to accord their makers any respect and instead constantly assumes the worst of them and for many years showers them with abuse. Haven't you ever wondered why everyone who has spent time around the factory feels so uncomfortable with the way you talk about Gibson Acoustic? For you the company is some monolithic entity, devoid of feeling, always trying to rip you off. For us those workers are dozens of people, real people in whose presence you would be ashamed to say the things you say here.

 

 

I think Wily just has a quirky sense of humor, and you may be taking him far too seriously. I doubt he takes himself very seriously.

 

Irony and humor can be hard to convey on the written page, unless you have the skills of Mark Twain.

[fortyearspickn]

Heads should roll, It's a humidity problem........

Then dismissing the negativity as tongue in cheek and quirky sense of humor, doesn't fly.

OK when it's occasional, but when it's constant and consistent, folks don't accept the "oh, I was only joking".

Might work in junior high, or for David Letterman, but not in the real world.