EuroAussie Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 I agree with you, but my point was a bit different. I feel that Gibson players generally speaking can also be quite open to appreciating other brands, Martins in particular and have quite a wide tonal pallete, with Gibson at the core. However I felt that on the AGF the Martin lovers are a bit more narrow in their definition of what makes a good guitar. You will find a lot of respect on the Gibby forum for Martin, Collings, Seagulls and Taylor .... OK, Taylors might be pushing it As for the AGF Board, I do see lots of love for Martins, but with all due respect EA, I don't think loving Gibsons is seeing the light as much as accepting other tonal palettes. I've played some mighty impressive Martins and if one came to me at the right price I would gladly switch out a Gibson or two, for variety's sake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smurfbird Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 Yes, agreed. I find the Martin-Taylor fans in particular on those boards to be less open to differences. Though certainly not all. Then again if I had only my experiences at the local GC to go by, I might be a bit biased against Gibsons, too. But then I like to try all guitars put in front of me and I will even commit the sacrilege of putting .10s on my J-200 once in awhile for recording purposes. (It adds an interesting layered effect when mixed with another track with .12s... I know several Martin fans who are "surprised" by my Gibsons, since you know how many are "dogs." People love to repeat something they heard thirty years ago, that's for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bohemian Posted May 29, 2013 Share Posted May 29, 2013 "I can't take seriously a forum where Taylors are the gold standard" BINGO Or where "Wade" is a "legend". The reality is that the AGF was concurrent and parallel with the Taylor Forum and both competed with the Acoustic Guitar Magazine Forum. The Acoustic Guitar Magazine Forum referred to the Taylor Forum as the Taylor Mutual Admiration Society and Worship Center. I have the distinction of being the first person to have been thrown out of the Worship Center for calling Taylor guitars what they were: Mass produced acoustic appliances with paint grade, knock down necks, with cutesy less than functional pointy pickguards and bridges and expedient but poorly executed copies of the Lowden headstock, marketed and priced as if they were hand made jewells. Matter of fact the hall monitor , who in my opinion had neither the experience, intellect nor temprerament to be a hall monitor, did not have the courtesy to e mail me but publically posted, and I was quote "Banned for Life", for crimes against humanity I assume. . "yes Bob Taylor used show up there to, people were so rude to the guy in some of the threads that I guess he pulled the plug on the Taylor Guitar forum thing." No, they were not rude to Bob Taylor. They asked reasonable questions which Bob Taylor refused to answer. The AGF group is also Martinesque. Must not sully CFM IV's countenance. Verbotten. Try it , you'll find out. And don't dare post facts. "I was an active member of the AGF back around 2001, and Chris Martin used to participate regularly. That was the year he introduced Micarta fretboards & bridges on 16-Series guitars. A lot of people gave him hell for it (including me), and shortly thereafter he dropped off the board. Specifically he was ripped for replacing the ebony fingerboard and bridge on the 000-16S-GT nwith plastic and without notice and at the sanme time dgrading form the Waverlies to cheap tuners, and at the same time raising the price. His defense was the fine print that they reserve the right to change specifications, problem here.. folks ahd them on order assuming they were getting ebony and Waverlies, and Martin did not have the courtesy to even notify the dealers who were left holding the bag.. CFM IV is also the guy that claimed he "designed " the CEO 5 which was "designed" by the members of the Acoustic Guitar Magazine Forum at his request. Every single specification of the CEO 5 came from the AGMF with the exception of the gag me gold tuners and frets, the pearl and the label... everything else was on the original 1916-17 Ditson/Martin and the suggestions from the AGMF. Try posting that on the AGF Why is it so necessary to validate info here by referring to the AGF.. largely mindless followers of "legends" such as Wade Hampton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jalex Posted May 29, 2013 Share Posted May 29, 2013 "I can't take seriously a forum where Taylors are the gold standard" BINGO Or where "Wade" is a "legend". The reality is that the AGF was concurrent and parallel with the Taylor Forum and both competed with the Acoustic Guitar Magazine Forum. The Acoustic Guitar Magazine Forum referred to the Taylor Forum as the Taylor Mutual Admiration Society and Worship Center. I have the distinction of being the first person to have been thrown out of the Worship Center for calling Taylor guitars what they were: Mass produced acoustic appliances with paint grade, knock down necks, with cutesy less than functional pointy pickguards and bridges and expedient but poorly executed copies of the Lowden headstock, marketed and priced as if they were hand made jewells. Matter of fact the hall monitor , who in my opinion had neither the experience, intellect nor temprerament to be a hall monitor, did not have the courtesy to e mail me but publically posted, and I was quote "Banned for Life", for crimes against humanity I assume. . "yes Bob Taylor used show up there to, people were so rude to the guy in some of the threads that I guess he pulled the plug on the Taylor Guitar forum thing." No, they were not rude to Bob Taylor. They asked reasonable questions which Bob Taylor refused to answer. The AGF group is also Martinesque. Must not sully CFM IV's countenance. Verbotten. Try it , you'll find out. And don't dare post facts. "I was an active member of the AGF back around 2001, and Chris Martin used to participate regularly. That was the year he introduced Micarta fretboards & bridges on 16-Series guitars. A lot of people gave him hell for it (including me), and shortly thereafter he dropped off the board. Specifically he was ripped for replacing the ebony fingerboard and bridge on the 000-16S-GT nwith plastic and without notice and at the sanme time dgrading form the Waverlies to cheap tuners, and at the same time raising the price. His defense was the fine print that they reserve the right to change specifications, problem here.. folks ahd them on order assuming they were getting ebony and Waverlies, and Martin did not have the courtesy to even notify the dealers who were left holding the bag.. CFM IV is also the guy that claimed he "designed " the CEO 5 which was "designed" by the members of the Acoustic Guitar Magazine Forum at his request. Every single specification of the CEO 5 came from the AGMF with the exception of the gag me gold tuners and frets, the pearl and the label... everything else was on the original 1916-17 Ditson/Martin and the suggestions from the AGMF. Try posting that on the AGF Why is it so necessary to validate info here by referring to the AGF.. largely mindless followers of "legends" such as Wade Hampton. Bohemian, the "Legend" thing was not supposed to be taken seriously. Wade was actually known for his skills as a Dulcimer player back in the day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EuroAussie Posted May 29, 2013 Share Posted May 29, 2013 Why is it so necessary to validate info here by referring to the AGF.. largely mindless followers of "legends" such as Wade Hampton. Bohemian, so are you saying that you got kicked out of the AGF ? I remember reading a post of yours yesterday I think. Regarding Wade, as you probably know Im same as you on the AGF. I have had lengthy spells in sin bin for my less than holy behavious, but I have to admit Wade is a legend and Ive learnt a lot from him and have generally agreed with 95% of his observations. To me he's the only regular poster that is worth reading or following, as he does add real value .... except the painful repetitve support of JP strings... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobouz Posted May 29, 2013 Share Posted May 29, 2013 The reality is that the AGF was concurrent and parallel with the Taylor Forum and both competed with the Acoustic Guitar Magazine Forum. "I was an active member of the AGF back around 2001, and Chris Martin used to participate regularly. That was the year he introduced Micarta fretboards & bridges on 16-Series guitars. A lot of people gave him hell for it (including me), and shortly thereafter he dropped off the board. Specifically he was ripped for replacing the ebony fingerboard and bridge on the 000-16S-GT nwith plastic and without notice and at the sanme time dgrading form the Waverlies to cheap tuners, and at the same time raising the price. His defense was the fine print that they reserve the right to change specifications, problem here.. folks ahd them on order assuming they were getting ebony and Waverlies, and Martin did not have the courtesy to even notify the dealers who were left holding the bag.. Two things: In my earlier post, I mentioned being an active member of the AGF in the period around 2001. When I referred to the AGF, I actually meant the Acoustic Guitar Magazine Forum. If there was another AGF, I never knew about it or was involved with it. I recall the Taylor shut down taking place, and the AGMF opening a special section for the Taylor people. Apologies if I've confused anyone regarding a different AGF. The AGMF is also the forum where Chris Martin would post from time to time, and where the debate about Micarta took on epic proportions. It was not just the 000-16S-GT that got the Micarta treatment - the change encompassed all GT models in the lineup at the time, which had previously sported striped ebony fingerboards and bridges. The change occurred part way into 2001 with no announcement, and dealers often remained unaware of this significant change until a customer in-the-know would point it out. Also note that 2001 is the year Gibson once again began sleeping with Guitar Center, and not long after, many devoted longtime dealers got squeezed out of Gibson's high-volume marketing plan. Ah, the good old days! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiloMinderbinder Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 Then you occasionally get the Martin owner who 'saw the light' and realised the Gibson magic ... few and far between. You can count me in that crowd. I had an HD-28V that I really liked, but it sometimes felt like playing a gong. Still love Martins but can't see owning one again anytime soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiloMinderbinder Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 ........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
generaldreedle Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 I find some of the old attitudes towards Gibsons amusing. My guitar teacher, who is a great guy and I really like, told me that Gibson makes uneven quality compared to Martins or Collings etc., and said stay away from them. He was exposed to them under the prior manufacturing plant or whatever. Then I brought by new J45 Custom to him today for my lesson and he loved it! THought it was beautiful and sounded great, tried to take off with it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brannon67 Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 Yeah, its amazing, Some people are just A$$es and smug about what they like and dont like. If you play Gibson, Martin, Taylor, Cort, Ovation, whatever, just enjoy it and play on. I dont have time for tight A$$, smug, people with their noses up in the air, just because they pay $10,000.00 or more on a guitar and think they are better or superior then everyone else. Music is music,and playing is playing. If you can afford a $10,000.00 or more guitar, more power to you. Im not knocking you, but the attitudes sometimes make me sick to my stomach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brannon67 Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 I cant believe people were rude to Bob Taylor and some others, just because they did not like Taylor guitars, or when Taylor changed something on their guitars, etc. If you dont like it, dont buy it. Plain and simple. No need in being an jerk about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissouriPicker Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 I kind of enjoy The AGF. There are so many partisans there and that makes it very easy (and fun) to play The Devil's Advocate if you like...lol...Easy to get some of them all-riled-up.. While Martin has a good representation there, I believe that Taylor is easily "the favorite son." I don't really have a problem with any of them. You just have to get used to a lot of threads revolving around "help me decide which guitar," "what tone wood is best?," "mahogany or rosewood?," "what guitar is best for fingerpicking?" I think a lot of it is because there are so many members. In that kind of situation you often have a few leaders and scores of followers. If someone says something, the uninformed repeat it and eventually it becomes the truth to the uninformed. Here in this forum, we're a smaller group and usually more focused on a particular thing. I think there's a lot more acceptance of other guitars in this forum. A lot more self-critiquing also. However, over the last year maybe, I've noticed more people talking about Gibsons, in a good way. Some people are definitely more enlightened. Also, I don't personally know Wade Hampton, but in the half-dozen or so contacts I've had with him he seems like a pretty decent guy. Again, I have no real problems with The AGF, but it's definitely not like this forum. At least not to me. I did have some luthier take issue with my comments about no guitar is worth more than 3000 or so to me. I made no personal attacks. Simply said I wouldn't pay much over 3000 for a guitar. The guy was all uptight because he said he put a lot of workmanship and pride into his guitars. I told him that he was surely a great craftsman, but that his skills really mean nothing to me. He told me that sometimes his 6-year-old son helps him pick the wood for a guitar. I asked him why that was better than someone at Gibson or Taylor picking the wood for a run of 50-60 guitars. Anyway, his pride had been hurt. YOU WILL run into people like that. Still, I'll go there because there are some good folks there, just like here. It's just that this place has less drama and stress....and there are some real comedians and artists in this forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiloMinderbinder Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 The AGF has a lot of good people and information. Like anything and anywhere, you gotta avoid the nonsense. IMO, one of the reasons Taylors get such positive support is the religious element. I think Bob Taylor is some kind of evangelical Christian and lots of church players seem to support the company because of that. Good or bad, it is what it is, and if it makes them happy, fine by me. I just remember when I joined that forum (formerly the TGF), I was really shocked about all the Christians and Taylors thing. Just wasn't something I was ever exposed to. I've have had my own share of Taylors and I like them just fine, but I tend to like Gibsons better. There are some models I wouldn't mind having, but I could say that about lots of makers, including Gibson of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bram99 Posted June 1, 2013 Author Share Posted June 1, 2013 You can count me in that crowd. I had an HD-28V that I really liked, but it sometimes felt like playing a gong. Still love Martins but can't see owning one again anytime soon. Same here....I played mostly Martins for about twenty some odd years and was always really happy with them. But I started looking at the J45, eventually got one and have never looked back....since then I got an LG 2 and now am totally digging Gibson guitars. My taste has changed and the sound of my D28 doesn't do it for me now.....I have tried to go back to it, but every time I pick it up it only takes a few mins for me to put it down and pickup one of the Gibsons... .it doesn't mean the D28 is bad, quite the contrary it is a great guitar...and I am not going to trash talk it...(cause i am giving it to my son when he is a bit older).. I think the fanboy behavior on the web (be it Mac versus Windows, Gibson versus Martin etc.) is pretty goofy.... Guitars are about personal taste, so to help my Martin understand our seperation, I have relied on the George Costanza break up technique ... "It's not you, ...it's me." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vacamartin Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 The Gibson sound came over me and captured me. Nothing can change that fact. My Martin, Loar, RK, etc are terrific....but the Gibson is like a religious experience>total conversion! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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