Bass...think I'm getting it now

[Searcy]

Well now you've hit on something legit I think. Is the drummer embellishing to accentuate the song? Punctuating the vocal lines and the story being told? Or is he/she trying to show off their best Neil Pert chops?

 

In other words... are they playing for the song? I have a habit of over playing bass lines on the first attempt. Those who are used to working with me know this and know I will edit myself as we work out the song. They also know I'm open to suggestion and don't get offended if I have to be replaced on a project because I'm not getting the feel down. I just has an entire 12 bar bass solo cut from a project I was asked to work on and I'm cool with that. It didn't fit the over all vibe... it was a hell of a solo though.

 

You might been to sit and have a heart to heart with your drummer and explain the musical direction you invasion. Make sure you see eye to eye.

[Greybeard]

Thanks for the support and the insight. I know I could use pro-mastering and I could polish the guitar (re-record the melody with better frills and such), but I've no idea who to get to do that or how much to tweek the tracks before handing them over. I'll be damned if I go to CL and hire some dude who is like, "hand over $30 a track."

 

As Pin mentioned, there is such a thing as going solo which has the advantage of aiming frustration at yourself only and, once you learn to handle the technology required to synchronize the sounds you want onstage, you get your way no questions.

BUT

I saw Andrew Bird live and he had a guitar straped to his back, a violin at his side and peddals, midi things that required his hands and feet (barefoot entertainer). He was so skillful it sounded perfect but wow. He was all alone on stage and I thought, "pressure much?" That would take serious determination an I don't like the idea of being alone onstage.

 

As many of you have stated, the bad of being a tyrant like Trent Reznor of NIN is you miss out on growing but its hard not to be, as an only child.

 

I met up with a drummer and we payed one of my songs three times. Though he listened to the track twice and kept the beat as I'd kept it, he added things here and there and I was like, "uhm, NO" in my head. This makes me feel like I may be tyranical. At least this dummer is in two other bands and has solo projects so he could care less about adding or morphing my stuff so the issue is practice (fixable).

 

I think part of the issue with tweeking my work is...rights. I know it's shallow and it's EARLY to think of it, but I want sole custody of my infants. I don't even show my stuff until after it has been copyrighten. I am not so narrow minded that if someone added, say, way better drumming I wouldn't re-submit legaly with due credit, but it is that serious to me that I would take the trouble to credit you before we played it publicly your way. I don't care if its just the drums, you made it its yours and I'm not taking it...I'd sooner buy it. *hands drummer legal document and cash

 

 

Learning the recording and mastering technology is another thing that just takes time and practice. It helps greatly if you have someone who already knows the application to give you some advise and guidance to get you started. Most of the DAWs have extensive Help files that can get you through some confusing aspects of what you are wanting to do. But what slows things down is that the different DAWS oftentimes call something by a different name than you would call it and you have to blunder your way around to find what you want.

 

You might also want to look into a book called "The Art of Mixing A Visual Guide to Recording_ Engineering_ and Production 2nd ed. by David Gibson that is pretty understandable and avoids a lot of the jargon.

 

What you say about giving musicians credit for their work is very admirable Izzy because there are a lot of people who don't credit anyone for what they steal. Studio musicians often only get paid by the session and often don't get any credit on the recording at all. With a professional studio an understanding of what kind of credit is given is usually agreed to upfront. Although musicians with friends who are willing to help are most often helpful because of the friendship and know that someday their friends will reciprocate.

 

You do seem to be very protective of your work and have a right to be. However, if you are serious about being a song writer, there will come a time when you have to kick your work out of the nest and let it fly. A good example is someone like Carol King who I admire greatly for her great body of work. If you look into what she has written, you might be surprised at how many different versions of her songs have been re-recorded by different artists. You might also be surprised to see how each of the artists have changed the original song to make it over in their style.

 

There are only two songs that have been recorded by different artists with both versions reaching number one on the Billboard charts. One was called "Go Away Little Girl" recorded by Steve Lawrence and Donnie Osmond and the other was called the "Locomotion" recorded by Little Eva and Grand Funk. Both were written by Carol King and Gerry Goffin. Did you know that there are over 500 versions of the song "Will You Still Love Me Tomorrow" recorded, also written by Carole King?

 

The point is that there is a process for protecting your work and being successful with allowing it to be re-styled into something bigger than you may have imagined. Carole King was successful at recording some of her songs but she was also very successful at letting them go to other artists.

 

You say you want to go "solo". But time is against you when you try to do that. You will have to take the time to learn everything you need to make your songs sound professional enough to get studios to listen to them. Getting them to listen to a song is hard enough when you have a good demo. But its really hard to get them to listen to an amature sounding recording.

 

So, you have to decide what it is you want out of all of your efforts. Even if you are only going to sing everything yourself, it would still be good to get some fellow musicians to play along with you and build what your final product is going to be. It really starts to be fun when you get with the right people.

 

GB

[surfpup]

Izzy, have you tried recording this with out any percussion?

 

I agree with this. The high hat is not really adding anything. Your voice is beautiful and the sparse bass and guitar parts support it perfectly.

 

Also I notice a lot of hiss/hum in the left channel. I think this is the vocal mic. If you can't get rid of it, a great tip is zero out the level on that mic when you are not actually singing. You can do this post performance (in the mix) or just by punching in the parts you need to sing. Cutting any "live" mic when it's not needed reduces the noise floor on your recordings tremendously.

[Izzy]

@ GB

 

Wow, I didn't realize Carol King had written so much and been covered so extensively. I'd be prefectly fine with someone covering or tributing me no problem so long as I am credited. Hell, I'd be flattered. See, I am not against my work being used, I just want it to be done faithfully by my people while I play/record it OR my name to be mentioned if recorded by others. Just don't pretend its yours, that's sad when people do that. Will check out the literature you suggested. Youtube can only teach so much. Lots of it is training your ear and tweeking once you've heard it in your car and on the stereo and on the iPod. Seriously, how can a song sound so different from system to system and room to room

 

@ surfpup and jax

 

I was scared to dim the gaps on vocals because I used delay AND was hoping the rumble effect I used would cover it up (guess it didn't), but I have gone back now and carefully cut out the portions that are unafected by the delay. Thanks pup.

 

When I hear the song without the tist tisk tisk tisk...it feels empty, BUT I will leave it out for the next week so I can get used to its absence. I mostly used it as a marker and got used to hearing it. :unsure:

 

Thanks guys.

[jaxson50]

IMO this song can be done two ways, simple, clean acoustically with a defined bass line, I wouldn't touch the lead guitar line, leave it the way it is, maybe just perfect it a little. Or it could be a real torcher with heavy percussion building up each verse and crescendoing into the chours line. It is that good, it has bones. Either way it has to be your vision and not someone else's, you need to decide what you want it to sound. Perhaps start out simple clean and raw then let it explode on the second chorus and modulate into a torcher....your voice is haunting, that is the dynamic center of this work, the current percussion line does not add anything. That being said, I can not get the song out of my head.

[milod]

Copyright © firstname lastname, year

 

If you're concerned, technically there's a copyright at the moment of creation, but the lawyers recommend adding this one way or another to everything written. Having the notice on the web page with the audio would be a good idea. Or, use Youtube even with some simple photo material including a title that notes the copyright.

 

I once copyrighted a batch of what could be called a specialized variety of choreography and the lawyers handling it - since it was rather a different sort of material - recommended that I "publish" with stills and the above copyright notice.

 

m

[jaxson50]

1369698236[/url]' post='1380263']

I agree with this. The high hat is not really adding anything. Your voice is beautiful and the sparse bass and guitar parts support it perfectly.

 

Also I notice a lot of hiss/hum in the left channel. I think this is the vocal mic. If you can't get rid of it, a great tip is zero out the level on that mic when you are not actually singing. You can do this post performance (in the mix) or just by punching in the parts you need to sing. Cutting any "live" mic when it's not needed reduces the noise floor on your recordings tremendously.

 

What he said!

[rocketman]

Great work! So I've heard enough of your stuff to say that it's time for you to start looking for a manager. This person will hook you up with a producer and then you can have all the creative inputs you want.

 

Trust me I've gone through a lot of my stuff and I've changed some around a lot. Others have too. Listen to Lifeson's solo for YYZ at 2:27 here:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCcnUXLqKJA

 

Now listen to how he plays it consistently live (at 2:30 here):

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_P7x7e19j-8

 

In the studio version he ends the first lick on an E note (with B on the bass), but at the end of the second lick he also ends on the E note (this time with C on the bass). I think he realized it was better to end the first lick on F#, which goes along with B on the bass, and then transition to second lick down to an E, which goes along the C on the bass. This completes a natural progression of defined anchor notes in a solo. Of course he does all this naturally, where I need to think about it.

 

It's a subtle point but one that shows that even Alex changes things around. I think it's good to get all inputs. Then make your decision. You are the creator so you get the final word. Do it in a way that is appreciative of others though.

 

My world is full of egos. Try getting into a room of 30+ Ph.D.s and you'll get disparate opinions, each one claiming there's is the best. I work around this by feeding their egos and then letting know what decision was made and why. Of course I give them all a big thanks for their inputs. It seems to work well all the way around.

[Izzy]

Copyright © firstname lastname, year

 

If you're concerned, technically there's a copyright at the moment of creation, but the lawyers recommend adding this one way or another to everything written. Having the notice on the web page with the audio would be a good idea. Or, use Youtube even with some simple photo material including a title that notes the copyright.

 

I once copyrighted a batch of what could be called a specialized variety of choreography and the lawyers handling it - since it was rather a different sort of material - recommended that I "publish" with stills and the above copyright notice.

 

m

 

I made sure to get it copyrighten...pending, but the electronic files are in. I'll be sure to put the © with my name, thanks.

 

@ Rocketman

 

A manager! Shouldn't I get a band together and then see if I can even play live. I may not be able to do shows. It's hard work repeating things in private, polishing performance, getting everyone (who isn't getting payed to be there) to work on the stuff, let alone gigs and getting the work listened to. Or is that what they do? They don't take money up front do they? :unsure:

 

I feel like that guy from Rush just got really good at that solo and can tweek it each performance because he's gotten that used to the...scale? The song, I guess, is what he has down pat in the live vid. Very cool, btw. I'm not a Rush fan (please don't hate me, people, great mmusic but the dude's voice just gets to me). That vid made me wanna check them out again.

[milod]

Izzy...

 

No, do it now.

 

Technically and legally it already is copyrighted. Period. But, do the notice wherever "published," and you could at least halt the use of your material by others. It's kinda a "hands off my stuff or else" notice.

 

Going through formal and paid copyright "registration" basically is there to help you sue for damages if the material were "stolen."

 

EDIT:

 

Do the notice as I'd written it above. The word "Copyright," then the copyright symbol, then your name.

 

m

[jaxson50]

1369720873[/url]' post='1380363']

I made sure to get it copyrighten...pending, but the electronic files are in. I'll be sure to put the © with my name, thanks.

 

@ Rocketman

 

A manager! Shouldn't I get a band together and then see if I can even play live. I may not be able to do shows. It's hard work repeating things in private, polishing performance, getting everyone (who isn't getting payed to be there) to work on the stuff, let alone gigs and getting the work listened to. Or is that what they do? They don't take money up front do they? :unsure:

 

I feel like that guy from Rush just got really good at that solo and can tweek it each performance because he's gotten that used to the...scale? The song, I guess, is what he has down pat in the live vid. Very cool, btw. I'm not a Rush fan (please don't hate me, people, great mmusic but the dude's voice just gets to me). That vid made me wanna check them out again.

 

I think you should find a manager first. Your strength is yourself, writing songs and singing them, a good manager will get you set up with professional group of musicians who will know how to work in a studio and work quickly. If you were working with a band for a year or two and cowriting these songs with other band members then it would be a different story. The next question is how to find a good manager..

[Valeriy]

Izzy, of course, you can do your own things alone and ask others to make as you see. But here, I think, it will be quite good to get acquainted with stories with other musicians because there is a question regarding the time spent. For example, Paul McCartney while he had the band “Wings” he quickly worked and also quite quickly he was releasing his good albums. Although he had a tension with other musicians of the band (because of Linda in this band). But when he disbanded the “Wings” and was left alone, he began to work much more slowly. For example, his album Flowers in the Dirt, a good album, but he spent for it 3 years. And anyway even in this album he had a helper, Elvis Costello, as a co-author in some songs.

 

Another example, Ian Gillan when he was invited in Deep Purple he laid down a condition that he will come to them in Deep Purple only with his friend bass player Roger Glover because together they composed songs then. Gillan, perhaps, understood that he alone will be lost as a songwriter. By the way, another pair from that Deep Purple, virtuosos with conservatoire education Lord and Blackmore, unsuccessfully spent a lot of time and were already on the verge of collapse before the arrival of the self-educated persons Gillan&Glover.

Of course, at the time there were no computers, now by means of a computer it became simpler to do music being alone, but the experience of others can be all the same useful.

By the way, I tried your thing on my guitar, although other song, which it reminds on intonation, a little interferes.

[rocketman]

A manager! Shouldn't I get a band together and then see if I can even play live. I may not be able to do shows. It's hard work repeating things in private, polishing performance, getting everyone (who isn't getting payed to be there) to work on the stuff, let alone gigs and getting the work listened to. Or is that what they do? They don't take money up front do they? :unsure:

 

I feel like that guy from Rush just got really good at that solo and can tweek it each performance because he's gotten that used to the...scale? The song, I guess, is what he has down pat in the live vid. Very cool, btw. I'm not a Rush fan (please don't hate me, people, great mmusic but the dude's voice just gets to me). That vid made me wanna check them out again.

 

I think you can find someone willing to help you along with your live work. They usually work on commission. You've got some nice talent, so you should try to find someone. A good manager will find your musicians for you. Don't feel that you need to do this on your own. Just don't sign anything long term.

 

Not a Rush fan. That's it. I'm never responding to one of your threads again!! Ha ha ha. No worries on Rush. A lot of people don't like them.

 

BTW, the scale is Spanish Phrygian (my favorite scale!).

[Riffster]

Great song Izzy, it's got that 90's angst all over it. Very nice voice too. I am very impressed.

 

How did Rabs convinced you to use effects? you were ever so adamant about it the time I posted about a vocal reverb/delay pedal.

 

Sorry, I did not read the entire thread but a search did not yield Library of Congress, you can copyright with then for a fee. Looks like you can upload "a collection of unpublished work for a flat fee of $35 if you do it online using their tool:

 

http://www.copyright.gov/eco/

[jaxson50]

Finding a good recording engineer would be a good idea, but one thing about managers you need to know, there are a lot of sharks out there.

[Rabs]

 

How did Rabs convinced you to use effects? you were ever so adamant about it the time I posted about a vocal reverb/delay pedal.

 

Its just an old Jedi mind trick :P

 

;)

[Riffster]

Ha I guess Rabs, I am scratching my head.

 

By the way Izzy, when I attended the free recording classes at Guitar Center there were a lot of guys there that do tracking, mixing and mastering for aspiring artists on the "cheap", as a side job. Then again this is Nashville.

[Rabs]

I agree with this. The high hat is not really adding anything. Your voice is beautiful and the sparse bass and guitar parts support it perfectly.

 

Also I notice a lot of hiss/hum in the left channel. I think this is the vocal mic. If you can't get rid of it, a great tip is zero out the level on that mic when you are not actually singing. You can do this post performance (in the mix) or just by punching in the parts you need to sing. Cutting any "live" mic when it's not needed reduces the noise floor on your recordings tremendously.

I actually liked the hiss and hum.. it sounded like a coming storm :)

[surfpup]

Then again this is Nashville.

 

A town where the waiters in most restaurants know more about recording and mixing than I do!

[Izzy]

edit

[Izzy]

I was adamant of using it BEFORE learning to work with EQ and compression. Live I have an issue with pedals that get you on key. What I realized with this song is that the sparcity of it called for delay. I made very sure to learn to use EQ and compression first and that's my priority as well as taking the vocals a few times and getting that track right so that I don't have to hide or modify. The idea that I would have to buy an fx peddal for vocals makes me a little ill, but if I have a few songs with echo or delay... I don't use it in most songs because I have more instruments and the feel is not right for that, but its looking like it may be useful if I play live.

 

As for the engineering, now that my work is copyrighten with the government office (did it a few days ago) I feel loads more comfortable showing the work to people.

 

Everyone is saying my music sounds 90s....showing my age and influence, lol.

[Riffster]

A town where the waiters in most restaurants know more about recording and mixing than I do!

 

I hardly talk to some of my guy neighbors in my cul-de-sac because I never see them, in 7 years I actually had never talked to one of my neighbors. So we had an impromptu cookout yesterday and turns out 2 of my neighbors are producers and one is a publicist and they all work with big shots in town and know most of the session players in the biz.

 

This guy has a home studio right in front of my house and I did not know.

 

We talked about the "loud wars" and I gave them my opinion on the subject, they say that's how Radio wants stuff recorded, I don't buy it.

 

And Izzy I am just giving you a hard time, reverb, echo and delay are simply essential in some songs. Sometimes they even make the song, they become one with the voice.