Bass...think I'm getting it now

[Izzy]

I wanted to thank ya'll for your input on the bass thread I made when I was trying to figure out bass (and to Rabs for suggesting I try fx).

 

I quit trying to make myself learn bass and just worked with what I knew and...I sort of accidentally have been creating bass lines with rythm guitar? VERY rudimentary, mind you...I got no funk or whatever sexy thing bassists have (hi Searcy )

 

Here's an example of my guitar as bass use:

 

https://soundcloud.com/izabellizima/stranger/s-3FUsZ

 

The work is coming along and I have like 14 songs...went to meet a drummer and now a new problem:

 

Meeting people to work with. I realized quickly that getting people to do what you want is hard enough when they're willing, I can't imagine what it would be like to meet someone who had input and opinions. Mind you, I'm not against input if I am collaborating, but when a work is finished and I just want to re-create what I made.

 

Am I crazy or is it unreasonable to expect a creative person (muscicians) to just bend to my wishes? Is that frame of mind pase?

I mean, I'm not Artie Shaw, but I think I have a big band era mentality. :huh:

[moparguy]

If its a finished song that YOU yourself wrote, with no other input, and you have it the way you want it to sound, then its not unreasonable to expect or even demand that the other musicians play it like YOU want it played. If they wont do it your way then tell them to hit the f*&$ing road and find someone that will!!!! Nice tone to your voice, has a certain pureness to it, for lack of a better description

[jaxson50]

Damn good stuff Izzy! I love your voice.

[moparguy]

Almost Karen Carpenterish

[quapman]

Not to sound harsh here Izzy but my 2 cents here is this....

 

Either you're talented enough to pull it off all by yourself and tell your band members what you want them to play or you have to succumb to others input and opinions.

 

When I was playing in a band(25+ years ago) we had almost 40 original tunes.

There were 4 of us. Between me and our drummer, the bulk of the tunes were pretty much our ideas, but nonetheless, collaborations with each other.

Of those 40 tunes,, I may have had 3 that I wrote all the parts for.

Thankfully my bandmates were receptive enough to learn what I had written.

 

Don't forget, you are in a group. And unless you are talented enough

to front the entire thing, you have no choice but to collaborate.

 

And to be honest,, the best tunes we wrote as a group were the ones where everyone wrote their own parts.

That to me is what makes a band.

It's a collaboration,, it's not one person.

 

Izzy, your vocals are stellar,, but you may need to rely on others to help out with the rest. Don't think you have to go it alone.

 

Good band mates will listen to your ideas. And for example, a great bass player will take your simple bass lines and work magic on them.

Just let it happen.

[STEVIL]

That was really cool, very nice! I completely drifted somewhere else with your voice Izzy. Beautiful stuff - you have real talent!

[Searcy]

I'll have to wait till I get to something with speakers before I can listen Izz but I usually like your stuff.

 

To me the whole reason for playing with other people is to let their talents and limitations push the song in a direction it would not have gone in if you had done it by yourself. I have spent most of my musical existence as a bass player and have always found it frustrating when my ideas were rejected to chants of "just play root 5th!"

 

So yea, love ya but I think you're crazy for asking creative people to work on a project and not create. There's a reason good session players get paid so well.

[AndyK]

Izzy, if you have a very clear idea of how your songs should be, then that's great. Yes, I agree that the other band members are equally important, but many band members are happy just to play and not to have an opinion on songs. It might take time to find the right people for you, but there are lots of musicians out there.

 

[edit] Just listened to the song - I have to concur - you have a lovely voice.

[badbluesplayer]

Yeah, Izzy, there's two kinds of bands. The first kind is where everybody's a partner. That's what you have when you start out. Everybody has to be equal in a way that makes everybody happy. Everybody has to agree on creative issues. Everybody decides who's in and who's out and what music you play.

 

The other kind of band is when it's one person's band. They are the big cheese and they have the "gravitas" to control the band simply by force of personality. The band leader hires and fires, has creative control and stuff like that.

 

You can't be the band leader in the second type of band until you have the "whatever it takes." Until then, you have to keep everybody happy. Share, be nice, no hitting.

[Pin]

Am I crazy or is it unreasonable to expect a creative person (muscicians) to just bend to my wishes? Is that frame of mind pase?

I mean, I'm not Artie Shaw, but I think I have a big band era mentality. :huh:

 

Maybe the answer Izzy is Band-in-a-box. The drummer, keyboard, brass etc do exactly what you tell them to do and no ego arguments. The same is true of going the you-play-it-all synth route.

 

What you miss by going the loner route is the sparking off of other people - creative mishmash if you will.

[DanvillRob]

I actually liked that a lot!

 

You have a talent for songwriting, and you have a lovely voice.

 

I like the song because it's a mix between a torch-song and a blues tune.

 

I know what I'd do with it, but you're the writer and you need to do with it what you want.

 

I'd back you on guitar any time....a real talent.

[charlie brown]

Sounds Great, Izzy! (Don't forget to breathe, though. )

 

Do you do "open mic" nights, or any other such opportunities, to get your

music "Live," in front of people? (For some, it's easy, for other's...the shy

types...it's nearly impossible.) But, it you can do that, I'd strongly suggest

you give it a try, at least. Nice songs, and a great voice...needs to be shared

and heard, beyond the forum...IMHO.

 

CB

[AndyK]

As a songwriter, there should be no problem in saying to the rest of the band, "this song is finished" - i.e. I don't need any input on it. Once you start playing with other musicians, you may well find you start to bounce off their musical ideas and write songs together. This is what happened to me, after years of writing on my own.

[Pin]

For some reason I couldn't connect to Soundcloud when I posted before so hadn't heard the song. And then I did manage to connect.

 

Izzy, you should be OUT there - really out there! That's a great song, and you lady, are a great singer and write great songs. You have real soul in your belly and it comes through beautifully. I'd sooner listen to you any day of the week than most of what gets pumped out on the airwaves.

 

As to the arrangement etc - a song like that is best kept very simple - gentle arpeggios / few notes - minimalist bass and drums. The music you have played is "spiritually" (if you know what I mean and I am sure you will) just right for the song but it does need a more professional touch to the arrangement.

[moparguy]

Maybe the answer Izzy is Band-in-a-box. The drummer, keyboard, brass etc do exactly what you tell them to do and no ego arguments. The same is true of going the you-play-it-all synth route.

 

What you miss by going the loner route is the sparking off of other people - creative mishmash if you will.

I think I misspoke on this. I completely agree with the input of others, but if its how you want it, then its how you want it, but others ppls creativity can turn a good song to a great one. I want to say again, your voice is fantastic!!!

[Cougar]

Nice tone to your voice, has a certain pureness to it, for lack of a better description

 

Yeah, your voice is awesome. When you hit a note, you are right on the note. No wavering. Solid, but not overpowering. I SO want to add keys to that piece....

[jaxson50]

Izzy, have you tried recording this with out any percussion? After listening to it several times I think current percussionionst is holding back the flow of the song. The vocal track is the focus of this piece, the drummer should be adding dynamics to the flow and emphasizing them.

[Searcy]

Damn girl! Finally got to something with some speakers on it. That may be my favorite of yours yet!!

 

You're vocal style reminds my just a bit of Joan Osborne.

 

[Rabs]

hey.. great track once again, simple and beautiful which are how some songs are meant to be. Your lyrics and vocals can carry basic tunes cos they are so good and make up for basic music. (nice subtle echo ;))

 

As for working with other people. As already stated above.. Some bands have a leader and some bands are totally collaborative and sometimes maybe theres two main writers and the rest are just there to fill in the gaps.. Theres no right or wrong, as with everything you need to find what (and who) works for you and the only way to know is to try it.

 

I was in bands when I was about 18-23 ish and I will tell you theres nothing like being in a good band that vibe off each other. You literally get lighting in a bottle sometimes when everyone is in tune (mentally) and on top of their game. There really is nothing else like that feeling.

 

So id say go for it and try playing with other people... Also I will say that I learned more about playing when in a band than at any other stage in my life, so it also can help your playing skills in ways you cant do alone. So is worth it just for that.. You can always go back to doing it solo at any stage you want and have nothing to loose by doing it.

 

You can also look at this as just having two different projects and still work on your solo tunes AND work on other stuff with other people.. See how each develop and what your happiest doing. Many band members even in big bands have solo projects, the band is the day job and the solo stuff is their personal project where they develop their own ideas.. There are no real rules, its all good :)

[Greybeard]

I wanted to thank ya'll for your input on the bass thread I made when I was trying to figure out bass (and to Rabs for suggesting I try fx).

 

I quit trying to make myself learn bass and just worked with what I knew and...I sort of accidentally have been creating bass lines with rythm guitar? VERY rudimentary, mind you...I got no funk or whatever sexy thing bassists have (hi Searcy )

 

Here's an example of my guitar as bass use:

 

https://soundcloud.com/izabellizima/stranger/s-3FUsZ

 

The work is coming along and I have like 14 songs...went to meet a drummer and now a new problem:

 

Meeting people to work with. I realized quickly that getting people to do what you want is hard enough when they're willing, I can't imagine what it would be like to meet someone who had input and opinions. Mind you, I'm not against input if I am collaborating, but when a work is finished and I just want to re-create what I made.

 

Am I crazy or is it unreasonable to expect a creative person (muscicians) to just bend to my wishes? Is that frame of mind pase?

I mean, I'm not Artie Shaw, but I think I have a big band era mentality. :huh:

 

 

 

Izzy, I love your voice! You have a captivating style that is very smooth and easy to listen to.

 

Musically, what you hear in your head and what you play for the background to the song fits nicely, but experienced musicians will also hear something in their heads that they will "feel" is right for the song or for parts of it. I think that is just a natural thing when working with creative people.

 

You can be firm in what you want in there as the creator of the song and that will get you what YOU want. But as an aspiring artist, please give some time to listening to what others may bring to your songs. There are great things to learn when you play with other musicians that becomes an addition to your overall knowledge and a bridge to more ideas in your future. The little time spent listening to those ideas will pay off in a big way in your future. I'm not trying to be critical here but just trying to pass along something from my own experiences. I learned more by listening and playing with others over the years than I ever learned all by myself. Its a great way to break down your own mental barriers and unleash ideas that you didn't know you had until you learned another way of doing something.

 

Keep at it Izzy. You may be the next Nora Jones with that smooth voice of yours.

 

GB

[Rabs]

This is all reminding me of an open mic night I went too a while back..

 

It was a REALLY strange night to say the least, only about ten people turned up type thing (mostly the performers lol :))... And right at the end of the night this lady walks in.. She also plays basic tunes in this case with just a basic riff all the way through.. But her voice was so good it didn't matter, it made the whole weird night worth being there for... I recorded it, check it out.

 

[milod]

Izzy... Sounds good and I agree on the vocal ability. The backing is unique and "fits."

 

But consider this too: As time goes on, you may take a different perspective on the song you wrote. You may change the tempo, concept of backing - and even vocal timing. It may take a while, but if and when you do, it would be pretty commonplace to do so.

 

m

[sellen]

Nice Izzy

[Pin]

This is all reminding me of an open mic night I went too a while back..

 

It was a REALLY strange night to say the least, only about ten people turned up type thing (mostly the performers lol :))... And right at the end of the night this lady walks in.. She also plays basic tunes in this case with just a basic riff all the way through.. But her voice was so good it didn't matter, it made the whole weird night worth being there for... I recorded it, check it out.

 

 

Thanks for that Rabs. Yes, she does have a nice voice.

 

But, to tell the truth what got me was the venue. The Plough & Harrow! It has been 40 years since I have been in there! And quite possibly the last time standing against that fireplace with a pint and *** (EDIT:now that is strange - I used the English slang expression for a cigarette and it got blotted out) At least it is nice to know that it isn't one of the many thousands of pubs that hasn't yet closed down.

[Izzy]

Thanks for the support and the insight. I know I could use pro-mastering and I could polish the guitar (re-record the melody with better frills and such), but I've no idea who to get to do that or how much to tweek the tracks before handing them over. I'll be damned if I go to CL and hire some dude who is like, "hand over $30 a track."

 

As Pin mentioned, there is such a thing as going solo which has the advantage of aiming frustration at yourself only and, once you learn to handle the technology required to synchronize the sounds you want onstage, you get your way no questions.

BUT

I saw Andrew Bird live and he had a guitar straped to his back, a violin at his side and peddals, midi things that required his hands and feet (barefoot entertainer). He was so skillful it sounded perfect but wow. He was all alone on stage and I thought, "pressure much?" That would take serious determination an I don't like the idea of being alone onstage.

 

As many of you have stated, the bad of being a tyrant like Trent Reznor of NIN is you miss out on growing but its hard not to be, as an only child.

 

I met up with a drummer and we payed one of my songs three times. Though he listened to the track twice and kept the beat as I'd kept it, he added things here and there and I was like, "uhm, NO" in my head. This makes me feel like I may be tyranical. At least this dummer is in two other bands and has solo projects so he could care less about adding or morphing my stuff so the issue is practice (fixable).

 

I think part of the issue with tweeking my work is...rights. I know it's shallow and it's EARLY to think of it, but I want sole custody of my infants. I don't even show my stuff until after it has been copyrighten. I am not so narrow minded that if someone added, say, way better drumming I wouldn't re-submit legaly with due credit, but it is that serious to me that I would take the trouble to credit you before we played it publicly your way. I don't care if its just the drums, you made it its yours and I'm not taking it...I'd sooner buy it. *hands drummer legal document and cash