cunningham26 Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 I dont know how an epi would age, but lake placid blue fenders will eventually go almost sherwood green, which is a pretty sweet upgrade if you ask me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott0 Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 I'll add also that the color of light on a guitar finish, even "natural" light outdoors, also will change one's perception of "color." Ditto in some applications with the color of the underlying wood. m even monitor settings have a big impact on color. was having a telephone convo recently with marty bell, a well known guitar refinisher here in socal about refinishing my tv pelham blue es-355 and when i told him it's transparent, he said there's no such thing as transparent pelham blue. i mentioned there's one sitting in my lap at that very moment, he pretty much demanded a photo of it before moving on in the convo, so i snapped a pic and sent it over, his reply was "well, that's not pelham blue." i had to point him to the epi site showing the guitar listed as tv pelham blue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Zeplin Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 I dont know how an epi would age, but lake placid blue fenders will eventually go almost sherwood green, which is a pretty sweet upgrade if you ask me! If what I am seeing is lacquer checking then I would assume that it has a nitro finish? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capmaster Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 As with all features of musical instruments, figuring and colours are a matter of taste. For me a very Les Paul guitar is flamed or quilted with a burst or transparent finish, and so all of mine are. I prefer translucent finishes in general but also own opaque guitars and basses, in most cases due to lacking availability of other finishes, in just two cases deliberately. These are my MIM Fender Floyd Rose Stratocasters in Candy Apple Red and Lake Placid Blue. I like these colours very much on Strats. However, the other two MIM Floyd Rose Strats of mine are bursts. By the way, my favorite finishes are Natural and Antique Natural. I dont know how an epi would age, but lake placid blue fenders will eventually go almost sherwood green, which is a pretty sweet upgrade if you ask me! Well, I wouldn't see this as an upgrade of my LPB Strat, but I also don't think I will live to see that. even monitor settings have a big impact on color. was having a telephone convo recently with marty bell, a well known guitar refinisher here in socal about refinishing my tv pelham blue es-355 and when i told him it's transparent, he said there's no such thing as transparent pelham blue. i mentioned there's one sitting in my lap at that very moment, he pretty much demanded a photo of it before moving on in the convo, so i snapped a pic and sent it over, his reply was "well, that's not pelham blue." i had to point him to the epi site showing the guitar listed as tv pelham blue. Sorry, but I am pretty sure that Pelham Blue is not transparent. It might be slightly translucent though like e. g. Silverburst finishes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott0 Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 Sorry, but I am pretty sure that Pelham Blue is not transparent. It might be slightly translucent though like e. g. Silverburst finishes. deja vu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott0 Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 this one's mine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capmaster Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 deja vu. this one's mine That's not even translucent, let alone transparent. The pigment has a very high opacity, caused by a high refractive index. There's just a very thin coat of lacquer which lets grain and figure come through due to different polymer soakage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 As far as color goes, I've lived nearly 50 years with it one way or another as a photographer and in printing. The only way to get a real "truth" in color is basically with a spectrophotometer. Even technique with that instrument can make a degree of difference. Maybe it's one reason I'm kinda cautious on referring to various colors. There are so very many variables, not the least of which is the human eye. "We" tend to make a color look like we think it is; our memories even become involved when we look at an object we're convinced has a certain "color" regardless that light reflected from it may not match light reflected from it under other conditions. As for whether Pelham Blue may or may not be transparent or translucent under certain conditions, pigments are in suspension with some sort of medium before being placed on a surface one way or another. Unless there are sufficient pigment particles to entirely cover that surface, the cured medium will be at least "translucent." if the pigment particles entirely cover the space between the "air" and the guitar's wood, it's likely not to be considered translucent or transparent, regardless the pigment. Again, a number of variables are involved too. m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott0 Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 That's not even translucent, let alone transparent. The pigment has a very high opacity, caused by a high refractive index. There's just a very thin coat of lacquer which lets grain and figure come through due to different polymer soakage. even marty said after seeing the photos it's transparent. in fact, he stated he could not do what i needed done due to the transparent finish. trans·par·ent 1. (of a material or article) allowing light to pass through so that objects behind can be distinctly seen. "transparent blue water" synonyms: clear, crystal clear, see-through, translucent, pellucid, limpid, glassy, vitreous More a quick glance proves you can clearly see the grain underneath the color. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott0 Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 marty's follow-up email confirming our convo Marty Bell <martyrokk@cox.net> to me Scott on this color it cant be done, on transparent colors you will still see where the holes were , we would have to reclear the whole top to get them to be smooth to the touch but they will be clearly visible.sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott0 Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 pat wilkins is another highly regarded guitar refinisher in socal, here's his email where he also refers to the finish as transparent Pat Wilkins <pat@wilkinsguitars.com> to me Hi Scott I can fill the holes on your guitar but unfortunately there's nothing that I can do to make the holes disappear and make your guitar look like it never happened. The best I could do it make the area around the holes match the blue but since it's transparent you will always see the holes as darker spots. The only way to make it look like it never happened is to refinish the entire top in a solid version of the color that you have now. If that's something you will consider then write back and I can give you a quote. Peace Pat Wilkins Wilkins Guitars 15734 Stagg St Van Nuys, Ca 91406 ph 818 909 7310 fax 818 909 7439 www.wilkinsguitars.com pat@wilkinsguitars.com you can google pat's name and marty's as well to read plenty of reviews re: how well-regarded they are at what they do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capmaster Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 pat wilkins is another highly regarded guitar refinisher in socal, here's his email where he also refers to the finish as transparent you can google pat's name and marty's as well to read plenty of reviews re: how well-regarded they are at what they do It seems unsensible calling a finish of such a high opacity transparent. In my opinion, he wanted to say that the wood's texture is visible due to the very thin coat, and that an increased thickness would possibly make the holes disappear. This doesn't mean that the finish as such is transparent or translucent. According to definitions provided by Wikipedia, transparent means that you may look through a substance like through clear glass, and translucent says there is a certain degree of opacity which may blur the view of the coated surface profiles. When looking at them from the centre to the rim, some burst finishes are completely transparent, some change from transparent to translucent, and some from transparent over translucent to opaque. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott0 Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 It seems unsensible calling a finish of such a high opacity transparent. In my opinion, he wanted to say that the wood's texture is visible due to the very thin coat, and that an increased thickness would possibly make the holes disappear. This doesn't mean that the finish as such is transparent or translucent. two of the most highly respected guitar finishers on the planet both described the finish as transparent. it's odd to me you're trying to claim that they don't understand paint & color and the terminology of those. you're more than welcome to your opinion on the conversations i've had with both of these guys, but i'm the one that actually had the conversation with them and i know full well what their expert views are, i don't need to have an opinion on it, i have the facts on it. either way, i was simply relating the conversation earlier, it's not a problem with me if you think these 2 guitar finishers don't know what they are talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capmaster Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 even marty said after seeing the photos it's transparent. in fact, he stated he could not do what i needed done due to the transparent finish. a quick glance proves you can clearly see the grain underneath the color. This is a trick of the light due to the coat following the texture of the surface. As you say, you may see the grain underneath, but you definitely cannot look through the finish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralph F. Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 Czech it out! http://www.guitarcenter.com/Epiphone-Les-Paul-Standard-Plain-Top-Electric-Guitar-100237216-i1320937.gc Ralph F. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capmaster Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 two of the most highly respected guitar finishers on the planet both described the finish as transparent. it's odd to me you're trying to claim that they don't understand paint & color and the terminology of those. you're more than welcome to your opinion on the conversations i've had with both of these guys, but i'm the one that actually had the conversation with them and i know full well what their expert views are, i don't need to have an opinion on it, i have the facts on it. either way, i was simply relating the conversation earlier, it's not a problem with me if you think these 2 guitar finishers don't know what they are talking about. Would never dare to think that, they just don't name things right. I often experienced that with very skilled artisans, electricians, metalworkers, car mechanics and luthiers. Into the bargain, my ex-wife is a paintress but confuses these items since I know her although she should know. Since I coated billions of tablets and checked each of several ten thousands of them for quality, I know very well what it's about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott0 Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 Would never dare to think that, they just don't name things right. I often experienced that with very skilled artisans, electricians, metalworkers, car mechanics and luthiers. Into the bargain, my ex-wife is a paintress but confuses these items since I know her although she should know. Since I coated billions of tablets and checked each of several ten thousands of them for quality, I know very well what it's about. well, whatever the name of the finish is, neither guy can fill in the bigsby holes and keep the original finish, they both state they would have to reshoot the entire top in solid pelham blue. i'm not opposed to that, but was hoping to keep the whatever you want to call it factory finish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capmaster Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 well, whatever the name of the finish is, neither guy can fill in the bigsby holes and keep the original finish, they both state they would have to reshoot the entire top in solid pelham blue. i'm not opposed to that, but was hoping to keep the whatever you want to call it factory finish. That's completely understood. I think I would want to keep such a special factory finish as original as possible, too. To my eyes, finishes which mimic the wood texture underneath have a certain charm, and I think it contributes nicely to an instrument's appearance. Despite of being coated with an uncoloured high-gloss finish, I do like this property of the Silverburst stain on one of my 2011 L6S guitars very much. My Worn Ebony SG Standard bass looks similarly in this respect. In contrary, all the other guitars and basses of mine with an opaque finish show a next to even surface. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crust Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 What is there about the color that you don't like. It's the best color, ever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pin Posted January 4, 2014 Author Share Posted January 4, 2014 Hi crust, I am a dyed in the wool conservative. Although I do own a cherry red Epi ES345 I would have much preferred to have got it in sunburst if they had done such a beast. But they didn't. At least the cherry red is transparent and the grain of the wood shows through. But no, I am not a fan of self-colour guitars whatever the make. Sunburst (of some description) every time for me. But as colours go there is something particularly grating I find with Pelham Blue - no idea why - just how it is. No problem with others liking it (or any colour) but not for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott0 Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 this thread turned out to be fun, a variety of banter to & fro! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis G Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 For me, Pelham Blue is kind of like Gretsch or Ovation. You like it or you don't. That said, I think it looks good on some guitars, on others, well, not so much. I like an SG, 339, Casino, et al, but a Les Paul?? Nah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supersonic Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 Crust, did that 355 come with the pickguard in the box? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crust Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 Crust, did that 355 come with the pickguard in the box? yes, I didn't want to screw in the holder bracket. It did come with the entire pick guard and attachment hardware, even the stick on Epiphone E, but I do not want to drill holes in this beautiful instrument. I might install it on the Dot Studio I have, I think I might at some point. I have a number of things in mind I might do with that Dot, maybe put a frequensator tailpiece on it too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyphre Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 I love certain guitars in Pelham Blue. Les Pauls, 335 types in particular. I only like bursts in tobacco and transparent blue. I prefer my guitars to be black or ivory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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