Acoustic duo frustrations

[kebob]

I so wish I was a better singer so I wouldn't have to rely on others for it. I'm trying to get up an acoustic duo for small venues and get frustrated in finding someone with my passion for advancing the cause. Been working with a woman who fronts a local band (I play in a band as well). Been at it for months now (have about 15 tunes). It'd be so much less hassle just doing my own thing, but my vocals aren't good enough to carry a show.

 

Just venting, I guess. I don't have much patience for working with younger people, I guess.

[livemusic]

I so wish I was a better singer so I wouldn't have to rely on others for it. I'm trying to get up an acoustic duo for small venues and get frustrated in finding someone with my passion for advancing the cause. Been working with a woman who fronts a local band (I play in a band as well). Been at it for months now (have about 15 tunes). It'd be so much less hassle just doing my own thing, but my vocals aren't good enough to carry a show.

 

Just venting, I guess. I don't have much patience for working with younger people, I guess.

 

Hard to find good, dependable bandmates. Move to Nashville, there a million of 'em here. Which means you can't make any money here playing gigs unless you're a star.

[blindboygrunt]

Yip. Been there . musicians eh?

[kebob]

Yip. Been there . musicians eh?

 

I guess. Drives me nuts. We try to practice once a week -- but when we do I can tell she is not putting the time in to learn the vocals. I've got ALL the equipment ready to gig, just need her to show up prepared on the agreed upon tunes. She uses our practices to try and learn her vocals, calling up lyrics on her damn smartphone. Driving me nuts. If I cut her loose, I'm out months of work/progress. Outside of work, this is what I do. Love to able to find someone with the same frickin passion.

 

Sometimes, It's almost like God has cursed me by giving me the skills to be a good acoustic guitar player, but no voice to use with it.

[kebob]

Hard to find good, dependable bandmates. Move to Nashville, there a million of 'em here. Which means you can't make any money here playing gigs unless you're a star.

 

I don't even care about making money. Just want to be tight enough to have people take notice when they hear us and not sound like amateur hour.

[zombywoof]

Being I have never been willing to subject the music loving world to my voice, I spent many years playing in an acoustic blues duo with a lady singer who also sang with the rock band I was with. We got a ton of tunes in the bag quickly mainly because the rock band played a healthy dose of 1920s and 1930s blues already. No age difference between us and that lady could sing - had a real Etta James thing going on with her voice. And this one was never about the money. We played more than a few times for free food. It was more about just making a joyful noise asnd a nice break from the rock band.

 

What I think though really made it work was I never saw us as a duo but always considered my job as being her back up. The way I figured it, good guitar players were a dime a dozen but a lady with that voice was what set us apart from all the others out there. We enjoyed it so much we ended up adding a doghouse bass and another guitar player which freed me up to play some blues fiddle. And as things often go, I ended up sticking a Barcus Berry pickup to the fiddle and began to use it a bit in the rock band.

[milod]

A cupla points, and as an aside, thumbs up to Zomby... I've an acquaintance, btw, who is a heckuva rock, jazz, country fiddler.

 

1. You say your voice is no good. I'd say forget that. Check out Youtube Leo Kottke... Here's one example; Kottke initially did relatively little singing, thinking his voice was no good. But he has a show that features his unique sense of humor, guitar style and some lyrics of his own (check out "Pamela Brown" or "Rings" or the depressingly sad "Louise.") The idea is you aren't a singer, you're not really a picker, you're an entertainer. That's a whole different thing. A lotta folks who have been mediocre pickers at best, and singers with a "poor" voice but great styling, have become great entertainers and have made a living at it. (Kottke's "Pamela Brown" could be taken as emphasizing that! Check it out too.)

 

2. I have nothing against a music stand of some sort with lyrics, jokes, songlist, etc. Heck, in the olden days we used recipe cards for songlists and lyric "reminders." My eyes were a lot better in those days, though. A lighted music stand, a laptop or pad? Why not" I've seen plenty of full time and weekend warrior folks using them for some 60 years. Big bands used 'em all the time. It also offers more flexibility for a given gig if you have material to suit an night's audience 'stedda "canned" performance. Again, don't glue your eyes to it 'cuz you're an entertainer - but it ain't a bad tool. Figure it into your "stage presence." Use a bit of "backtalk" with the partner, 'cuz that's worked since entertainment began. I predict some day we'll have a laptop/pad with all the stomp boxes in it, that then simply goes into a board. If it's a regular gig in a saloon with regulars, tailor it with new jokes, music, etc. - and the "music stand" lets you switch a lot faster and keep the crowd. If you know the tunes, you can pick up new songs every week even with a poor memory for lyrics.

 

3. If you're frustrated, it ain't gonna be fun regardless. Take your strengths as the vehicle, the weaknesses as a passenger, have some jokes and banter you can do well. If you take "music" all too seriously, it will tend to be boring regardless of style for either a solo or duo. Even a bigger band when you come down to it. A guy and a girl can have some marvelous byplay - and comics have been using that in gigs forever.

 

Here's Kottke with a tale of meeting Bob Dylan - takes up as much time as a song and it's fun and funny. He's been doing similar gigs his whole career, I think... I intentionally used vids of him as an older guy - although he's younger than I am. (Okay, exactly one month younger. <grin>)

 

 

.... but if you ain't heard him pick... here's guitar only...

 

[kebob]

Being I have never been willing to subject the music loving world to my voice, I spent many years playing in an acoustic blues duo with a lady singer who also sang with the rock band I was with. We got a ton of tunes in the bag quickly mainly because the rock band played a healthy dose of 1920s and 1930s blues already. No age difference between us and that lady could sing - had a real Etta James thing going on with her voice. And this one was never about the money. We played more than a few times for free food. It was more about just making a joyful noise asnd a nice break from the rock band.

 

What I think though really made it work was I never saw us as a duo but always considered my job as being her back up. The way I figured it, good guitar players were a dime a dozen but a lady with that voice was what set us apart from all the others out there. We enjoyed it so much we ended up adding a doghouse bass and another guitar player which freed me up to play some blues fiddle. And as things often go, I ended up sticking a Barcus Berry pickup to the fiddle and began to use it a bit in the rock band.

 

Yeah, the singer is obviously key. The one I have is good on some things, but struggles with others. She's still a pup and learning. Regarding guitar players, I'm not sure I agree when it comes to acoustic. Yes, there are a ton of electric gun slingers out there, but I don't hear a ton a really good acoustic guys locally -- one's that make an acoustic sound good by itself (percussive, nuances, etc.). That's my niche -- I do it well. I play electric/acoustic in the full band but was 20+ years solely on acoustic.

[mountainpicker]

Those two videos pretty much sum up a Leo Kottke concert, at least the two I've seen. We have a little arts center where I live that seats about two hundred or so. I was sitting in about the third row, maybe twenty feet from him, when he came back from intermission. He was noodling around like he does and I leaned over to my girlfriend and said, "I wish he'd play The Fisherman" which is my all time favorite by him. He heard me, and just went right into it and tore it up. Made my evening. A funny guy with killer chops.

[EuroAussie]

Ive been pretty lucky. Have been playing with a singer for three years and were still going strong, enjoying the company, developing as musicians, performers and the journey.

 

Its a lot like a marriage, you've got to have a good understanding of each others needs and wants, know when to compromise and focus on the unit first.

 

But we were lucky, we clicked from the first meeting and have been able to nurture the relationship. Im aware this is a rare situation so Im conscious of making the best of it.

[Irish]

We try to practice once a week -- but when we do I can tell she is not putting the time in to learn the vocals. I've got ALL the equipment ready to gig, just need her to show up prepared on the agreed upon tunes.

 

Yeah, the singer is obviously key. The one I have is good on some things, but struggles with others. She's still a pup and learning.

 

 

If that's the case, she's not the right one. Politely scrap the duo and look for someone else. It may take some time, but it'll likely be well worth it in the end. Gigging is tough enough without having to worry about someone who doesn't take it as seriously as you do. For the vast majority of players it has to be about the pure, unadulterated enjoyment and personal satisfaction of it, 'cause most folks will never get rich doing it no matter how talented they may be.

 

And that's my $.02 worth. Good luck.

[Andy Trickett]

Oh have I ever been in the particular Hell!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

OK so you get a female vocalist... she needs everything transposed..

 

'Andy can we do 'Ride of The Valkairies' Saturday Night? there is a Lesbian crowd in?'

 

Yep so you put a capo at the fecking (NOTE Mods feckin' is not a swear word, really it's not I promise) aye so you put a fecking capo at the 7th fret and she still moans!!!!!!!!!!

 

How many female vocalists does it take to change a light bulb?

 

Oh just one, she holds the bulb and the world revolves around her..

 

How do you know a female vocalist is at the door?

 

Well she never knows when to come in..

 

My advice? Just play instrumentals

 

Andy

[ParlourMan]

The lad above nailed it, might feel like a further step backwards but clearly this relationship will end at some point. Sounds to me like you'd be better with someone else who shares your motivation levels, expectations, choice of material etc...

 

It's supposed to be fun, right? From the original post it doesn't sound like it's much fun for you at the moment.

[BluesKing777]

Yeah, some good points above....

 

It does sound like this particular duo is over before it really began. I wouldn't worry about lost time - you still learned those tunes, and they don't go away - could be useful.

 

Most of the best things I have been involved in 'worked' from the first meeting and a couple of outfits, the meeting was at a jam night and I don't recall ever having a formal 'rehearsal'. We were on the same 'level' at that particular point in time, knew similar songs and styles and away we go>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have done the other thing (bands)where we rehearsed and rehearsed and rehearsed some more until we were right sick of each other, did a couple of gigs and pffftttt - that was a real waste of time, and money - we were in a full blown rehearsal studio. But we chalk it up to something and push on.

 

Singing.....I always say every guitarist should sing, and I just said it in a thread with one of my tracks yesterday I believe, but there have been a couple of times when I have talked someone in to vocalising because they were such good musicians, BUT, wow, a good friend master musician sang, and recorded, like something was stuck in the Klacker and it was fearful. But GENERALLY, most people can sing with a bit of practice and guitarist/vocalists can sometimes get a whole lot more mileage than an instrumentalist guitarist, and a whole other range of freedom.

 

So, number one, I would work on YOUR voice - even if later you just do backups, that is better than standing there flatfooted with the guitarist grin!

 

Good luck!

 

 

BluesKing777.

 

 

 

Edit:

 

If the singer is an absolute BABE, forget all the above and just put up with it - that's where the money is!

[kebob]

Yeah, some good points above....

 

It does sound like this particular duo is over before it really began. I wouldn't worry about lost time - you still learned those tunes, and they don't go away - could be useful.

 

Most of the best things I have been involved in 'worked' from the first meeting and a couple of outfits, the meeting was at a jam night and I don't recall ever having a formal 'rehearsal'. We were on the same 'level' at that particular point in time, knew similar songs and styles and away we go>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have done the other thing (bands)where we rehearsed and rehearsed and rehearsed some more until we were right sick of each other, did a couple of gigs and pffftttt - that was a real waste of time, and money - we were in a full blown rehearsal studio. But we chalk it up to something and push on.

 

Singing.....I always say every guitarist should sing, and I just said it in a thread with one of my tracks yesterday I believe, but there have been a couple of times when I have talked someone in to vocalising because they were such good musicians, BUT, wow, a good friend master musician sang, and recorded, like something was stuck in the Klacker and it was fearful. But GENERALLY, most people can sing with a bit of practice and guitarist/vocalists can sometimes get a whole lot more mileage than an instrumentalist guitarist, and a whole other range of freedom.

 

So, number one, I would work on YOUR voice - even if later you just do backups, that is better than standing there flatfooted with the guitarist grin!

 

Good luck!

 

 

BluesKing777.

 

 

 

Edit:

 

If the singer is an absolute BABE, forget all the above and just put up with it - that's where the money is!

 

Your last line -- funny you should mention that. She is extremely good looking and frankly, guys will most likely sit there and stare at her for the whole night, whether we suck or not -- which is not a bad thing, I guess.

 

I'm not to the point of throwing in the towel. I'm not new to working with musicians. I'll know when it's time to cut the line. We're not there yet. Although, we're probably at the point where I need to have "the talk". I do backing vocals, but my voice isn't good enough to carry a show.

[tpbiii]

Well ......

 

I guess I don't see the problem. I met a girl some years ago who played guitar and sung for me the night we met. She also plays bass, mandolin, and a bit of fiddle. She has a two octave range and at this point she can pretty well improvise perfect (to my ear) harmonies on the fly. We have a 300+ active song list (always from memory, but as I age, that may not hold) and twice as many again where we can supply two part harmony to someone else's lead. We have band practice once a week and generally play once or twice a week more at jams and shows (I am retired). We play as a duo, we have our own bluegrass band, and we probably play in a dozen or so other configurations in a year.

 

She also bore me two fine (musical) children.

 

And it all took only 46 years.

 

And was (and is) fun.

 

I almost never play without her -- at least close by.

 

 

 

It is a bit time consuming, but in my opinion it works really well.

 

Let's pick,

 

-Tom

[zombywoof]

Well ......

 

I guess I don't see the problem. I met a girl some years ago who played guitar and sung for me the night we met. She also plays bass, mandolin, and a bit of fiddle. She has a two octave range and at this point she can pretty well improvise perfect (to my ear) harmonies on the fly. We have a 300+ active song list (always from memory, but as I age, that may not hold) and twice as many again where we can supply two part harmony to someone else's lead. We have band practice once a week and generally play once or twice a week more at jams and shows (I am retired). We play as a duo, we have our own bluegrass band, and we probably play in a dozen or so other configurations in a year.

 

She also bore me two fine (musical) children.

 

And it all took only 46 years.

 

And was (and is) fun.

 

I almost never play without her -- at least close by.

 

 

 

It is a bit time consuming, but in my opinion it works really well.

 

Let's pick,

 

-Tom

 

Ahhhh. I thought I recalled that you and your wife made beautiful music together. Lucky man. My wife gigged before we settled in together and still plays in a band at her church. But we only goof around when it comes to music as out tastes are polar opposite of one anothers.

[milod]

Tom...

 

I'd say you done good. Great looking guitars.

 

<chortle... if my wife saw I wrote that without a bit of additional clarification that you're lucky to have a good match with a good girl, she'd step on my arthritic foot ... hard.>

 

m

[BluesKing777]

Brutal truth moment....

 

 

Me on solo acoustic guitar - Crowd: 20 people.

 

Me on solo acoustic guitar/vocal - Crowd: 3 people, 1 passed out.

 

Me on backing acoustic guitar / vocalist with voice of an angel but 'unfortunate' face - Crowd: 21 people.

 

Me on backing acoustic guitar / vocalist with stunningly beautiful looks and voice of a peeg - Crowd: 350 people and 50 outside fighting to get in......

 

 

BluesKing777.

 

I made the last one up.....

[kebob]

Brutal truth moment....

 

 

Me on solo acoustic guitar - Crowd: 20 people.

 

Me on solo acoustic guitar/vocal - Crowd: 3 people, 1 passed out.

 

Me on backing acoustic guitar / vocalist with voice of an angel but 'unfortunate' face - Crowd: 21 people.

 

Me on backing acoustic guitar / vocalist with stunningly beautiful looks and voice of a peeg - Crowd: 350 people and 50 outside fighting to get in......

 

 

BluesKing777.

 

I made the last one up.....

 

Haha -- that may not be far from the truth!

[milod]

There's some truth to it but it depends on the venue.

 

Mostly, I think, folks wanna be entertained.

 

I think too, that sometimes the reason the folkie "thing" died wasn't the hated commercialized folks like the Kingston Trio that would be picketed for not being "authentic" enough, but because it generally lost its sense of humor and fun. It was so political that even fellow travelers were looking somewhere else for ... golly whiz, "entertainment."

 

That's also, IMHO, why a lotta music "acts" end up failing. Either they book "wrong" venues or the do the "wrong" show for one reason or another. Some folks want a fun and musical show; some want background to jump up and down; some want a little belly-rubbin' and some want background music appropriate to their age for one kind or another of "hooking up."

 

<sigh>

 

Our OP complains, but the bird apparently does show up. She sees ... something. What? How? That's a function of leadership communication and I don't think any of us really know how to make it all work. In fact, I dislike drudgery as much as anyone. I see the drudgery of a symphony orchestra rehearsal as something I'd not care for. It was tough enough in a college orchestra. Kids today (including kids my age) have lots of options, and to "grab" them takes more than it used to.

 

I dunno. In a cupla weeks we've got a high school rodeo club fundraiser I always support and promote. Their "performance" is usually between 15 seconds and 60 seconds in front of more folks than most of us ever see. But they'll drive for hours to get there; spend more hours prepping for their event; care for their horses, check the pickups and trailers; get something to eat and drive hours home - then take care of the horses and clean out the trailer and... in their venue, the crowd is "entertained" with what they expect and enjoy.

 

It's like a lotta bands, duo, trio, whatever, come to think of it. The kids do it for the joy of it. One of the best kid ropers anywhere some years ago quit rodeo, burned out. Ditto a lot of guitar pickers. Why? Why did it stop being fun? When did it stop being fun?

 

Those all are questions to ask ourselves. If in an ensemble of any sort, music or team roping, service club or workplace, what are we doing to get the job done but also to have a good time and less stress so that better "work" actually gets done?

 

m

[jbuck]

My only bit of advice (probably not worth much around here) but my advice is work on mastering your vocal range. Even if you don't think it's good enough, do your best to master your vocal skill set, whatever that may be. Work on your own style when you get the time. I've heard plenty of people who weren't the most vocally talented but had the lyrics and guitar skills, piano skills, etc to back it all up. I know a lot of people won't agree with me, especially people from my generation, but to me, the lyrics are key. I mean if the person just sounds horrible then that's one thing.. But if they manage to master their vocal range and the lyrics are good, I can listen to it all day. I have the highest respect for musicians who can just pull up a guitar and a microphone and let the music play. If you can find someone who shares your same passion then stick with the duo. But if not, maybe try venturing to your own thing and attempt singing. Pick a style that will suite your voice well. You may be surprised what you end up getting out of it.

[blindboygrunt]

My only bit of advice (probably not worth much around here) but my advice is work on mastering your vocal range. Even if you don't think it's good enough, do your best to master your vocal skill set, whatever that may be. Work on your own style when you get the time. I've heard plenty of people who weren't the most vocally talented but had the lyrics and guitar skills, piano skills, etc to back it all up. I know a lot of people won't agree with me, especially people from my generation, but to me, the lyrics are key. I mean if the person just sounds horrible then that's one thing.. But if they manage to master their vocal range and the lyrics are good, I can listen to it all day. I have the highest respect for musicians who can just pull up a guitar and a microphone and let the music play. If you can find someone who shares your same passion then stick with the duo. But if not, maybe try venturing to your own thing and attempt singing. Pick a style that will suite your voice well. You may be surprised what you end up getting out of it.

 

+1 . or I wouldn't be doing anything

[kebob]

My only bit of advice (probably not worth much around here) but my advice is work on mastering your vocal range. Even if you don't think it's good enough, do your best to master your vocal skill set, whatever that may be. Work on your own style when you get the time. I've heard plenty of people who weren't the most vocally talented but had the lyrics and guitar skills, piano skills, etc to back it all up. I know a lot of people won't agree with me, especially people from my generation, but to me, the lyrics are key. I mean if the person just sounds horrible then that's one thing.. But if they manage to master their vocal range and the lyrics are good, I can listen to it all day. I have the highest respect for musicians who can just pull up a guitar and a microphone and let the music play. If you can find someone who shares your same passion then stick with the duo. But if not, maybe try venturing to your own thing and attempt singing. Pick a style that will suite your voice well. You may be surprised what you end up getting out of it.

 

Thanks for that. Sounds like solid advice to me.

[aliasphobias]

Remember the voice box is a muscle, the more you exercise it, the stronger it becomes. I have never considered myself a singer but never let it stop me. When I play I sing. Think of her dilemma, poor gal probably couldn't play an F chord on a guitar to save her.