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Vintage 58-62 Les Paul Jr on Local Craiglist?


RevDavidLee

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Posted

This just popped up on my local craigslist (no it's not my ad). Here's the link so you can look at the pictures he provides:

 

http://desmoines.craigslist.org/msg/4722350153.html

 

The reason for the "what year is it" is because there are no serial numbers on the back of the head stock. Did Les Paul Jr or other genuine Gibson guitars not have serial numbers on the back of the head stock back then?

 

Just curious for any opinions of whether or not this is a genuine Gibson guitar from that era or not. Vintage Gibson experts please chime in. Thanks! :blink:

 

Oops - admin please feel free to move this to the Vintage Gibson forum. Dang it - messed up. [blush]

Posted

The guitar has been refinished, as stated in the ad (used to be Cherry, is now Natural). Back then the serial numbers were just ink stamped, not punched into the wood. The refinish removed it.

 

As for year, it's 1958-early 1961. The Junior, along with the rest of the Les Paul models, changed to the "SG" shape in 1961.

 

Late '59-early '61 were blackguard, so that puts this one between mid '58 (early '58 models had a different shaped pickguard) to mid '59. Either way, it looks to be in decent condition for it's age...finish wearing and checking, but that's expected...doesn't look like it's been abused.

 

Must have been refinished early on, or badly, if the finish is worn that much...

 

I wouldn't pay $2500 for a refinished guitar that sold for $49.95 in 1958 (which, accounting for inflation, is only about $400 today).

 

-Ryan

Posted

It looks like the real deal. I suspect that refinish is not nitro and I would want to check the dates on the pots but he's asking top dollar for it. I would be a buyer at about if everything else checks out $1200.

Posted

You're far too kind, Ron.

 

-Ryan

 

I'm serious. Sure, I play a Telecaster expert, among other things, on the internet. Jrs? Speials? Double cuts and Melody Makers? Nope. I know nothing, and I learn when You do it so well!

 

rct

Posted

by my crude mathematics in Australia (assuming parity exchange rate with US$, which I think we pegged at for many years) the equivalent today in terms of average wages would be about $1400. I'd really like a junior doublecut and would happily buy at $1400.

Posted

The guitar has been refinished, as stated in the ad (used to be Cherry, is now Natural). Back then the serial numbers were just ink stamped, not punched into the wood. The refinish removed it.

 

As for year, it's 1958-early 1961. The Junior, along with the rest of the Les Paul models, changed to the "SG" shape in 1961.

 

Late '59-early '61 were blackguard, so that puts this one between mid '58 (early '58 models had a different shaped pickguard) to mid '59. Either way, it looks to be in decent condition for it's age...finish wearing and checking, but that's expected...doesn't look like it's been abused.

 

Must have been refinished early on, or badly, if the finish is worn that much...

 

I wouldn't pay $2500 for a refinished guitar that sold for $49.95 in 1958 (which, accounting for inflation, is only about $400 today).

 

-Ryan

 

Thank you very much for the information. You saved me a lot of time & research and since you're younger than me and have more time left in this world I really appreciate it. Thank you Sir! :)

 

I have no interest in buying that guitar. Anything that has a lack of a serial number makes me naturally suspicious. And even if it is the real deal as it may very well be - my days of dropping $2500 or more on any guitar are over - especially given the collection I already have.

 

The Vintage Guitar 2014 Price Guide prices the 58 LPJ DC (Cherry finish) at $4100 - $5100 (with of course no mention of refinishing devaluation) and if that seller is looking at that he probably figures it's a "good deal" for someone. The fact that it was his Dad's Number One guitar makes me wonder why he's selling it - even if he's not a player. Maybe he has no one to pass it down to like a son, or daughter. I dunno - maybe he just wants some extra money. But he'll never get that amount in this market especially here in Iowa. Interesting photos to look at nonetheless.

Posted

I'm serious. Sure, I play a Telecaster expert, among other things, on the internet. Jrs? Speials? Double cuts and Melody Makers? Nope. I know nothing, and I learn when You do it so well!

 

rct

 

It all started when I purchased my 1964 Gibson Melody Maker. It was an oddball guitar. Two solid black single coils in an odd shaped pickguard with reflector knobs. Doublecut with horns halfway between a Doublecut Junior and an SG. The narrow headstock, the odd burst...I wanted to know more about the guitar.

 

So I went to work digging up every detail I possibly could on this guitar. I learned that the pickups in it are repurposed Gibson Lap Steel pickups. The narrow headstock saved them the trouble of gluing on wings. The oddly pointy horns were only seen after about 1963, but before 1966 (when the Melody Maker took the SG shape). It was a transition period. The burst is technically a "reverse burst". They stained the top a dark cherry and then painted the interior a solid yellowish color.

 

Along the way I learned tons about other less-expensive Gibsons. I have a tedency to retain relatively useless information such as this. If other people learn from it, I guess the information isn't entirely useless.

 

Just a 21 year-old college student with too much time on his hands...and yet not nearly enough.

 

-Ryan

Posted

It looks like the real deal. I suspect that refinish is not nitro and I would want to check the dates on the pots but he's asking top dollar for it. I would be a buyer at about if everything else checks out $1200.

Ive never had a p90 guitar, was mildly interested until i saw his price, ouch! haha

Posted

I bought a new Les Paul Jr. in 1958, and I remember there was no serial numbers on the head stock.Isn't it around those years that Gibson started fooling with the serial numbers, <locations,stamped, or stenciled things of that sort>

I kept it for about 20 or so years, and then sent it to my nephew in Texas. I would like to try and contact him to see if I could get it back, but I bet the chances are slim to none that <1> I could even reach him, <2> that he still has it.

I know on my 1960 ES 355 that Gibson was not consistant on the serial numbers. I only found this out when I wanted to see how many 355 were made in 1960 with the same specs as mine.

 

But I agree, I think the sellers asking price is very much on the high side, plus it does not look to be an original case.

Posted

Loves me a double cut Junior! Already got a TV Yellow reissue back in 2011 or I'd be all over this one. Don't think the price is that bad even given the refin. Looked at a bunch in much worse condition and the sellers were asking $3-4000.

 

May not be "collector" quality, but it looks like it might be a helluva player.

Posted

What people are asking for guitars and what they are selling for are two very different things. This guitar is over priced

Posted

What people are asking for guitars and what they are selling for are two very different things. This guitar is over priced

 

I'll give an amen to that [thumbup]

Posted

True enough. But the same would hold true here since the listing does say $2500 OBO.

 

I was just saying the asking price was probably more in line with the instrument's actual condition than some of the "gems" I was looking at a few years ago.

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