blindboygrunt Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 Without using an almighty ipad anyone got a superb idea for your song lyrics / chords ? I just use a regular ring binder but it always annoys me with its size and cumbersomeness . Been racking my tiny brain for something novel , but nothings coming.. So i thought of you lot. And im well aware that 'professional musicians' shouldnt be using 'cheat sheets ' but hey ho , i do :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparquelito Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 blindboygrunt, My band uses the 3-ring binders on two separate (orchestral grade) music stands. I'm sure there are other bands out there that can play each and every song from memory, without any visual cues, but we are not one of those bands. We have to rely upon them since we literally have up to 200 songs that we can perform, depending upon the venue, and the option for taking requests. That's not to say that there aren't a dozen or so songs that we could perform from memory, but still, the binders are a must for us. The iPad, mounted on a mic-stand bracket, seems to be the going thing, but its field of view is limited to each player on each mic stand. In the end that could get mighty expensive. Our bass player uses one, but he struggles to see the characters on the screen. A guest blues guitar player that sat in with us for quite a few gigs used one, and he liked it a lot. I notice that some live acts (with deep pockets) actually have video monitors down on the stage front, right next to their actual audio monitor speakers. Some technician with a computer keeps advancing the lyrics and chords for the star performer as they perform. That would be quite cool, but again, very costly. I watched a youTube video this past weekend of David Bowie and his band (from right around the Heathen album timeframe) playing an American PBS show, taking requests from callers who phoned in each song request. It did my heart good to see Bowie flipping thru his 3-ring binder, positioned off to the right of his mic stand, to refresh himself on the lyrics!! If it was good enough for David Bowie, then I guess it's good enough for me. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorrisrownSal Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 Grunt I still use an old fashioned music stand, and 60 lyric sheets on paper and laminated. The pages have 3-ring binder holes in them. I go to each gig with each set ordered and zip-tied in place, plus "the extras". Is it cheating? Yep. Eventually maybe I'll have 100 songs memorized, etc. For now I need to be able to briefly glance down at my sheets. Typically the first line in a verse is all I need to trigger my memory. I suppose if I were inclined, the only technology product that might work would be the iPad Pro, which is very big. I think I'd be able to see that. Even so, I would have to learn how to get my songs in there my way, in my keys, with my notes on where we add a solo, and where I capo each song for the ones that I capo. The laminated sheets I make work fine for me, and no one can really see that I occasionally glance there. Or they dont care - maybe they think that's what music stands are for anyway... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blindboygrunt Posted January 25, 2016 Author Share Posted January 25, 2016 Yeah , same here sal. First word of a line or so and im off. It doesnt work playing a song that you dont know the lyrics to. Ive seen guys that have to read basically every line and it comes theough in the performance. Its useful for anyone who may sit in from time to time also , if theyre not faniliar with my particular version of a song. The laminating is a good idea , keeps them upright.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortyearspickn Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 I hated 3 ring binders, until I found a really good one. It's heavy duty white plastic but light-weight. But what I like is - you can drop it and it doesn't pop open with half the sheets hanging out. And, the rings stay perfectly aligned, so you don't have each sheet hanging up each time you turn the page. I use clear plastid insert type holders to put the music sheets in and that helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blindboygrunt Posted January 25, 2016 Author Share Posted January 25, 2016 I hated 3 ring binders, until I found a really good one. It's heavy duty white plastic but light-weight. But what I like is - you can drop it and it doesn't pop open with half the sheets hanging out. And, the rings stay perfectly aligned, so you don't have each sheet hanging up each time you turn the page. I use clear plastid insert type holders to put the music sheets in and that helps. Whered you get such a thing ? This is part of the reason im searching for an alternative ... Wouldnt be the first time i dropped mine all over the pub floor. Or even opened my gig bag and the bloody rings have popped open... Makes me say bad words !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortyearspickn Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 Whered you get such a thing ? This is part of the reason im searching for an alternative ... Wouldnt be the first time i dropped mine all over the pub floor. Or even opened my gig bag and the bloody rings have popped open... Makes me say bad words !! It's a "1 1/2 " sort of clear/opaque - not white - plastic cover. only name I could find on it is: " (IN) Place Innovative binder series " Got it in "Office Depot" which is a big chain "Office Supply Store". Maybe cost $6 ? I'm guessing if you got a big one - say 3" - it would pop open if dropped since the weight of the contents would be double, but I'm sure the metal rings, locking mechanisms are the same as on the 1 1.2" If I ever fill this one up - I'll get another one, not a bigger one. G'Luck ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blindboygrunt Posted January 25, 2016 Author Share Posted January 25, 2016 :-/ Eh ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortyearspickn Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 Amazon -- $9 bucks. http://www.amazon.com/IN-PLACE-Innovative-Binder-Shell/dp/B004GBRJB2/ref=pd_sim_229_1?ie=UTF8&dpID=41Zzpdj-D%2BL&dpSrc=sims&preST=_AC_UL160_SR160%2C160_&refRID=18VBY7PQ22EQJMYG6MZC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EuroAussie Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 Ipad and Onsong is the answer. However it doesnt have to be the 'ipad' - a budget tablet is fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissouriPicker Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 I also use a 3-ring notebook. At first it seemed okay, but now, after several years with the latest one I'm looking for another way. I put it on a strong and heavy-duty music stand, but I still need another way to have songs readily available. The same issues as everyone else---the rings come open and pages fall on the floor, the notebook is tearing at the seams, and at times the bulk of the pages slip down a little and the notebook heads for the floor. It's just not the optimal way. All my songs are in clear plastic sheets, so at least they hold-up well. Also, even though the plastic sheets serve a purpose, they make the notebook thicker and less pliable. I've thought of an IPAD, but I'm leery of having the IPad falling to the floor if I bump the music stand, although that may be the way I eventually go. Guess I could strap it to the stand. Another solution might be to memorize more of my songs. I can do an easy 90 minutes of music on memory, but that keeps me playing the same group of songs every week and I'd rather be able to mix-in tunes I don't play regularly..........Also be nice to have something that makes it easy to keep the songs in the order you are expecting them to be in. No doubt an IPAD would help solve that, but if I go the IPAD route I've got to make sure the font is of a size that I can see and that the song fits on one page...lol......I rarely wear my glasses because I leave them in my car so that I don't lose them. Make sense?....lol....I need to find an IPAD with a 32" screen. For now I'll likely continue doing what I've always done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EuroAussie Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 Larry, if you get OnSong for Ipad or tablet you can increase the font size as much as you want and also put in the time of the song and it will automatically scroll down for you. I also use a 3-ring notebook. At first it seemed okay, but now, after several years with the latest one I'm looking for another way. I put it on a strong and heavy-duty music stand, but I still need another way to have songs readily available. The same issues as everyone else---the rings come open and pages fall on the floor, the notebook is tearing at the seams, and at times the bulk of the pages slip down a little and the notebook heads for the floor. It's just not the optimal way. All my songs are in clear plastic sheets, so at least they hold-up well. Also, even though the plastic sheets serve a purpose, they make the notebook thicker and less pliable. I've thought of an IPAD, but I'm leery of having the IPad falling to the floor if I bump the music stand, although that may be the way I eventually go. Guess I could strap it to the stand. Another solution might be to memorize more of my songs. I can do an easy 90 minutes of music on memory, but that keeps me playing the same group of songs every week and I'd rather be able to mix-in tunes I don't play regularly..........Also be nice to have something that makes it easy to keep the songs in the order you are expecting them to be in. No doubt an IPAD would help solve that, but if I go the IPAD route I've got to make sure the font is of a size that I can see and that the song fits on one page...lol......I rarely wear my glasses because I leave them in my car so that I don't lose them. Make sense?....lol....I need to find an IPAD with a 32" screen. For now I'll likely continue doing what I've always done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluesKing777 Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 Without using an almighty ipad anyone got a superb idea for your song lyrics / chords ? I just use a regular ring binder but it always annoys me with its size and cumbersomeness . Been racking my tiny brain for something novel , but nothings coming.. So i thought of you lot. And im well aware that 'professional musicians' shouldnt be using 'cheat sheets ' but hey ho , i do :) Good question that applies to practicing/playing at home too, BBG! While I love my iPad dearly, the plain old paper page on a music stand is the easiest and doesn't need charging, and is the best to jump a page or 7 or even to completely change your mind. Some tunes I only need a clue, others.... I have used the whole range of binders and don't like the big hard white things any more, so any lessons from SGGW or Homespun, I print and bulldog clip 'em. But I have a pile of these lessons, some free some in binders - the SGGW lessons were WAY better when the dvd came with the booklet... Music books have the same drama, but SOME Hal Leonard books are designed for musos - they have a note at the front saying this and that, but the crux is the songs all have their own page and a blank on one side if needed, and the paper is soft so the book opens flat. The music books that are stiff and don't open are a nuisance. There are some 'soft and skinny' folders out there that are nice, could be hard to find, but better than the big white ones..... BluesKing777. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjl200 Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 I'm with EuroAussie. iSong and a tablet and a air turn pedal it's so easy And IMO worth every penny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flatbaroque Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 I used to 3 ring binders. Now I just use the binders with the full wire spiral binding down the whole margin and the plastic inserts.You can get them with 30 inserts- so that's 60 pages.If your folder drops on the ground nothing falls out.Easy to change order of songs.Sheets protected by plastic too.They are light so using a bulldog clip to keep them on the music stand is good to. Cheers BBG....happy Australia Day Jan 26! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissouriPicker Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 Okay, this Onsong, does it move down the page on its own, or do you use a peddle to jump to the next page? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EuroAussie Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 Okay, this Onsong, does it move down the page on its own, or do you use a peddle to jump to the next page? You set the time of the song, hit play and it scrolls down by itself to the time selected ... if you like you can also give the scrolling a push mid song. Very versatile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidblast Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 I'm still using the 3 ring binder with sheet protectors too, like everyone else, it's just a bit of crutch, needing a first word for a verse as a reminder most of the time, I hate having it there. I think it's more in my head, if it's there I rarely look at it, if it wasn't there, I'd probably turn into a puddle half way thru a song mid set. Maybe I just need to gig more? I found some pretty rugged binders at Staples, the rings lock pretty tightly.. there's a sturdy button on one side to release the lock. so far, these have been pretty reliable. I use them in varying sizes for all my Piano sheet music too. the iPad thingy sounds interesting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tpbiii Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 I have hesitated to respond to this because my response might make me seem odd or arrogant -- I may be both . We actually never use books and we maintain an active song list well above 350 with 100s more chorus. But this is part of a larger compromise that has to do with the genres we play and our goal/approach to music. I don't think of myself as a talented musician at all -- I struggle a lot -- but I seem to have an ability to remember lyrics and a quick memory for simple (think traditional folk) melodies. This approach works for me because I use a method approach (create on the fly) to lead playing, and I would rather have someone else play lead anyway. Generally I play in bands and groups (BG and such) where I have other instrumentalist to participate, and the musical structure of what we do is basically simple -- think mostly major chords and simple basic structures. This approach has both advantages and disadvantages. It is great for social music making where the musicians are basically entertaining each other. If you are working acoustically with strong instruments and stacking vocal harmonies, you need to move -- you can't really do that if tied to a music stand. Also if the artistry is in improvising and fine tuning vocal stacks with strangers, it is good to have the lyrics and rhythm automatic so you can concentrate on the immediately creative part. A performing advantage is to keep the stage clear of clutter. The overall approach makes it a lot easier to put on shows with pick up groups. Also you can practice lyrics and do lots of other things at the same time -- yard work, driving, take a shower, other things to personal to mention. On the down side, this approach never gives the nuanced and carefully crafted performance you can get from focused practice. If you use scripted words, you can focus on other stuff and that can make those parts better. Also there is one less thing that can go wrong on stage.. Our approach is fundamentally flawed when it comes to doing fine-tuned repetitive performance -- that makes us feel inadequate (because we are) but not enough to change \:D/ . In our bluegrass circles in Georgia, you never see music stands and words. At the urban folk jams we occasionally attend, you see them some for sure. "Folk" groups "jam" in a circle, and it is really more of a sequential performance than a jam in a bluegrass sense. At the other end of our range -- Nova Scotia -- books are almost universal, even among major local acts -- so there are regional and cultural norms. We have one Nova Scotia friend who has won Province wide awards in country music and who does hundreds of songs, but who basically cannot work without a book. Even in the bluegrass circles there you see some books there. We do have a iPad clip on holder for a mic stand, but I have never used it -- apparently we have no aversion to wasting money on musical gear] (*,) . But now in our early 7th decade, we expect memory issues and we may have to adjust at some point. Whatever floats your boat I guess. Let's pick, -Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidblast Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 Hi Tom no worries, all opinions are good for discussion here, we all try to leave the egos at the door. depends on how often a person gigs I think. Years ago when I was working much more (a few times a month) I never had a problem. I don't get out to play as much these days, so I think that, and maybe age has changed a few things. I don't read off the chart, it's really a memory crutch.. I would love to not have it there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blindboygrunt Posted January 26, 2016 Author Share Posted January 26, 2016 Tom , you play bluegrass. There only is a couple of dozen lyrics . :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tpbiii Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 Tom , you play bluegrass. There only is a couple of dozen lyrics . :D You are right -- quite unlike blues . Let's pick, -Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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