BluesKing777 Posted February 3, 2016 Posted February 3, 2016 it is quiet around the place, so..... I was interested in harmony singing a bit, but had no idea what you are supposed to do, though I enjoyed the Fabs, Beachies, CSNY etc. In one band I was in many years back, we had 3 or 4 singers, except...only one mic! But it wasn't knowledgeable harmony singing, just melding lead lines I suppose. So in one band, we rehearsed some that we could bravely call 'backup vocals' at a rehearsal studio forever and forever, but when we got to a couple of small gigs, the others plain old chickened out even though they all got a Shure SM58 each at great expense to management. I was in a duo and trio with a woman singer, but she actually sang 40 times louder than me and twice as deep, so that didn't work out. And really, I just don't know anybody AT ALL that could do harmony singing. And I know many singers...... So jump to 2015 and we buy the TC Helicon which does auto harmony and lets you plug your acoustic straight in, adds echo/reverb etc like a producer maybe.... AND VOILA!!!! Here we have a new recording by BK and the Bikkies: may delete after an hour....... https://soundcloud.com/bk7-3/fell7 BluesKing777.
blindboygrunt Posted February 3, 2016 Posted February 3, 2016 Not sure what i think of that BK. Just to be perfectly Frank. Sounds in equal parts great and then , with certain parts it sounds a tad robotic. I know it is a robot so i should be impressed with the parts that it works in. Your use of it is spot on . but wouldnt expect less as your knowledge of what makes a good tune is huge ... In the right hands it woukd sure help a solo guy in a pub corner , and it woukd really impress your average punter with his gin n tonic. In the hands of someone who has no capability of knowing when to stop or start it , it would murder songs all day long. The cheesy guy with the midi systems 20 years ago spring into my mind .. Hmmmmm Fun though right?!
BluesKing777 Posted February 3, 2016 Author Posted February 3, 2016 Thanks BBG, that was quick - I only just turned the thing off! Yes, just experimenting and having fun, though sadly, the Bikkies are 400,000 better singers than anyone I have played with. I don't know what to do, either. Not sure of the pub in the corner with the gadget - even the most cretinous audience appreciates some honest solo guitar and vocal - it is just too organic and somehow genetic. But like you said, those old keyboard bits, well, less said......couldn't find themselves a guitarist. On the video demos of the gadget, one of the girls just uses one backup and only in a chorus or two, and it sounds great. I left the Bikkies on to demo it. But I know a few here bought the gadget, so I do have fun with it at home and use it quite a bit. At a pub, no! 3 songs in and it would be trodden on by someone, wouldn't it? BluesKing777.
blindboygrunt Posted February 3, 2016 Posted February 3, 2016 I think i'd make use of one if playing solo. Just in one or two songs. Like a harmonica rack , sounds great , but not in every song. Each thing is good for a man who goes solo. My trouble is , i dont have a voice like the angelic girl in the promo vids , i mean how would 3 of her not be better than one. But my old goose farting in the fog voice , another human pretty voice harmony hides mine and sounds better , but to multiply what comes out of me , might not be that fantastic
j45nick Posted February 3, 2016 Posted February 3, 2016 That's a little spooky. It's worth playing around with, for sure. Can you program it for different types of harmonies, or does it just have a default mode?
blindboygrunt Posted February 3, 2016 Posted February 3, 2016 That's a little spooky. It's worth playing around with, for sure. Can you program it for different types of harmonies, or does it just have a default mode? I havent got one , but it seems theres quite a few options. Between country style harmonies , soul style , one boy one girl , two girls , two boys ... Etc. Octaves above or below or both ...... Its a clever little box for sure.
BluesKing777 Posted February 3, 2016 Author Posted February 3, 2016 It is spooky, isn't it? The model I have is the cut down version for plain and simple (dopey?) acoustic guitarist/singers. You can't program anything as such, but you alter every single thing. The main idea is to pick a preset you like - my track was Preset #3 for example, and I trimmed the harmony levels a bit, but the delay, reverb, compression and a host of mixing person jobs is done for you....you don't need the harmonies to enjoy some echo! If you are a smarty techie, you can make your own presets, save them to your little area of the memory in order of the songs and harmony demands for your live set. I might need a bit longer to do all that! I had a vision of the Bikkies backing singers being painted on to a backdrop for the gig...... Sorry, sorry, sorry - the guitar was my Aura D18 straight in to the gadget with no intentional processing after plugging in. BluesKing777.
fortyearspickn Posted February 3, 2016 Posted February 3, 2016 I can just hang on, singing the lyrics on key to the proper melody, while playing. Even OK with another singer. But, if I were to attempt singing in harmony - it would be a bridge too far over troubled water. I would suspect technology can help many who are not too far gone, as am I.
BluesKing777 Posted February 3, 2016 Author Posted February 3, 2016 Oh, the gadgetry! There is a weeny computer chip in the Helicon and another in my Aura system in my guitar! Both work in real time live, not saved and processed. Incredible really. The vocal harmonies are made by the gadget analysing what guitar chords you are playing and deciding the key for vocals. And the guitar sound is an Aura 'image' of a mixture of what a 1937 Martin D18 sounds like through a vintage Neumann U67 mic and my guitar through the pickup! All recorded straight through the TC Helicon to my iMac using headphones for monitors from the Helicon. But there is no thinking about any of that as you do it - just play and sing as you would live with great sound in the headphones, some lost in the conversion to Soundcloud. Whoever makes this amazing stuff, the only reason we aren't living on Jupiter or Mars, is that the kid designer doesn't want to leave Mama yet! BluesKing777.
kwalker201 Posted February 3, 2016 Posted February 3, 2016 Oh, the gadgetry! There is a weeny computer chip in the Helicon and another in my Aura system in my guitar! Both work in real time live, not saved and processed. Incredible really. The vocal harmonies are made by the gadget analysing what guitar chords you are playing and deciding the key for vocals. And the guitar sound is an Aura 'image' of a mixture of what a 1937 Martin D18 sounds like through a vintage Neumann U67 mic and my guitar through the pickup! All recorded straight through the TC Helicon to my iMac using headphones for monitors from the Helicon. But there is no thinking about any of that as you do it - just play and sing as you would live with great sound in the headphones, some lost in the conversion to Soundcloud. Whoever makes this amazing stuff, the only reason we aren't living on Jupiter or Mars, is that the kid designer doesn't want to leave Mama yet! BluesKing777. Some of the presets, one would never use. But some are great if you turn down the vocals harmonies and then they seem to blend in so much better.
MissouriPicker Posted February 3, 2016 Posted February 3, 2016 I kind of like the sound and I appreciate being introduced to this hardware. I'll likely take a look at it. Anything that might make me sound better is worth my time. On this recording it sounds like you've added a bit of chorus. I can add chorus, reverb, Equalize, and gain already. Is this device a link between the guitar and the amp, like a DI box? What's it doing that your amp doesn't do?
BluesKing777 Posted February 3, 2016 Author Posted February 3, 2016 I had a thread last year when I bought it, but here is a video from Sweetwater with a chap explaining the gadgetry WAY better than I can: BluesKing777.
j45nick Posted February 3, 2016 Posted February 3, 2016 I had a thread last year when I bought it, but here is a video from Sweetwater with a chap explaining the gadgetry WAY better than I can: BluesKing777. Pretty clever, for sure. And to think we used to get along with one microphone........or even nuthin'.
BluesKing777 Posted February 3, 2016 Author Posted February 3, 2016 All fun! I am getting ideas while using it that any future collaborating musician projects might think too tricky! Keep to the solo muso stuff. The main diff these days is the power of the DSP computing chips. Probably about 10 years ago, I was the guinea pig vocalist/guitarist for my friend when he got the latest greatest and most powerful available Mac tower with all the stuff - Pro Tools through a huge mixer with 64 channels out or something. It didn't have enough computing power to have the delay or reverb 'live' as you recorded, so you had to add it after and sit around waiting for ages while it processed the whole file. If you didn't like it, back to scratch..... Now any nonghead can fiddle away to their heart's content - live and 'on the fly'. The presets I used are tame - there are some wacky sounds in the box if you want them. Like the 'Cher' effect..... I will do one wackyo later if ya like. Except I need to pedal the computer a few more hours, wel about 6 hours more really. :mellow: BluesKing777.
Cougar Posted February 4, 2016 Posted February 4, 2016 The vocal harmonies are made by the gadget analysing what guitar chords you are playing and deciding the key for vocals..... I wondered how they did that. Of course, my synth can read the left hand chord in real time and add a couple of backing arpeggiators to make like a trio or quartet. I used that in this piece, though I generally like to play all the parts myself....
Cougar Posted February 6, 2016 Posted February 6, 2016 And really, I just don't know anybody AT ALL that could do harmony singing. And I know many singers...... Aw c'mon. It can't be that tough. Here's an easy example.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lllcsgSMo70
j45nick Posted February 6, 2016 Posted February 6, 2016 Aw c'mon. It can't be that tough. Here's an easy example.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lllcsgSMo70 They get a lot of mileage out of a few words, but that's the essence of good songwriting. They've always sounded great together. It's hard to get past the piezo "quack" of that guitar, however. It would sound great on a guitar like the JB, with or without a pickup.
EuroAussie Posted February 7, 2016 Posted February 7, 2016 I think the tricky thing with that recording was that your tone / pitch was in the quite low registers and the TC Helicon struggled a bit with that. I find it is best when singing in the mid to high registers, with some force. In other words great for choruses or softer numbers, but at a higher range. I used it extensivelly at my first solo gig (yes, i did it, and it went down just fine!) but i used it subtely. The most common harmony I use is an octave up, but with low blend. What it does however do is sort of 'round' of your voice with higher frequencies, so I want to do Thom Yorke, its perfect for that. Its also great if you are doing a female singer. I sang Everything Is Fee by Gillian Welch with the octave up setting and it was a nice blend of my lower register and the higher, The third setting that I like is High / Low, and i use that, again subtlely, on several choruses. So yes, its a great tool, but one really needs to be clear how to use it on each song and use it ...... sparingly.
BluesKing777 Posted February 7, 2016 Author Posted February 7, 2016 I think the tricky thing with that recording was that your tone / pitch was in the quite low registers and the TC Helicon struggled a bit with that. I find it is best when singing in the mid to high registers, with some force. In other words great for choruses or softer numbers, but at a higher range. I used it extensivelly at my first solo gig (yes, i did it, and it went down just fine!) but i used it subtely. The most common harmony I use is an octave up, but with low blend. What it does however do is sort of 'round' of your voice with higher frequencies, so I want to do Thom Yorke, its perfect for that. Its also great if you are doing a female singer. I sang Everything Is Fee by Gillian Welch with the octave up setting and it was a nice blend of my lower register and the higher, The third setting that I like is High / Low, and i use that, again subtlely, on several choruses. So yes, its a great tool, but one really needs to be clear how to use it on each song and use it ...... sparingly. Cool! Braving it on the road! Do you use the presets or your own settings? Amp or PA? Stereo or Mono? Used subtly, can be really nice, but I didn't like it in Mono through my amp at all.... BluesKing777.
BluesKing777 Posted February 7, 2016 Author Posted February 7, 2016 They get a lot of mileage out of a few words, but that's the essence of good songwriting. They've always sounded great together. It's hard to get past the piezo "quack" of that guitar, however. It would sound great on a guitar like the JB, with or without a pickup. I'm with you, Nick - I can't believe it when someone so famous plays live with such a horrid quack...I mean are they down to their last coin? Martin Retro guitar with Aura, new Martin with one Aura image, Gibson with Baggs element through an Aura pedal, many many many others - all great if you want to plug straight in, but not that sound, please! A friend dragged me to see his (quite famous) blues mate performing and the first chords had exactly Lindsays' quackery and let me tell you, if it wasn't a friends of friends thing going on and I didn't HAVE to stay, I would've been in my car and gone after the first song but sat through an excruciating 3 set evening and then met the dude and had to keep my big mouth zipped. . And with their vocals, are they harmonizing or just singing together? BluesKing777.
j45nick Posted February 8, 2016 Posted February 8, 2016 And with their vocals, are they harmonizing or just singing together? BluesKing777. That's a really good point, actually, but it's what they always do. You sort of get used to it, but it isn't very musical when you come down to it. Certainly ain't the Everly Brothers or the Beach Boys.
BluesKing777 Posted February 8, 2016 Author Posted February 8, 2016 That's a really good point, actually, but it's what they always do. You sort of get used to it, but it isn't very musical when you come down to it. Certainly ain't the Everly Brothers or the Beach Boys. The machine won't do them either! More chance of Stevie/Lindsay than Everly Bros Kathy's Clown parts. (One holds the word while the other goes up and down and around and ...back? I like the machine best with one harmony set to drunk (too much humanization) - sounds like Keef. Sounds bad recorded! BluesKing777.
EuroAussie Posted February 8, 2016 Posted February 8, 2016 They are all existing presets, however Ive adjusted the levels lower. Went through a Marshal AS-100D amp and in mono aI believe. Will be going through a bigger PA this Friday nite, where I wil seperate the vocals and guitar. Cool! Braving it on the road! Do you use the presets or your own settings? Amp or PA? Stereo or Mono? Used subtly, can be really nice, but I didn't like it in Mono through my amp at all.... BluesKing777.
BluesKing777 Posted February 8, 2016 Author Posted February 8, 2016 They are all existing presets, however Ive adjusted the levels lower. Went through a Marshal AS-100D amp and in mono aI believe. Will be going through a bigger PA this Friday nite, where I wil seperate the vocals and guitar. It will sound sensational in a PA in stereo pushing more air! (You do realise you need to have your guitar plugged through the TC for the harmonies to work? Just checking, when you said 'separate' the guitar.) A friend has a nice little PA with A&H mixer and 2 nice JBLs - keeps saying to bring the Aura D18 guitar and the TC over so he can hear it in his rig, but it has been a bit hot. And humid.... My only little complaint about the TC is all the leads you need to operate in stereo, guitar and headphones monitor. BluesKing777.
EuroAussie Posted February 8, 2016 Posted February 8, 2016 I have the set up as you have BK. Guitar into the Aura Spectrum then into the TC, then to Amp / PA. What I meant as seperate is that you have the option on having the guitar and vox running out out of the tC with just one XLR cable to the amp / PA, or you can have an XLR out for voice and for guitar. So on the amp, in small venues I have the one XLR out for voice and guitar, but for Fridays gig, which is in a larger venue, through a full PA I will seperate the vox and guitars. Ill most likely recor the gig so might post couple vids where im using the little black box. It will sound sensational in a PA in stereo pushing more air! (You do realise you need to have your guitar plugged through the TC for the harmonies to work? Just checking, when you said 'separate' the guitar.) A friend has a nice little PA with A&H mixer and 2 nice JBLs - keeps saying to bring the Aura D18 guitar and the TC over so he can hear it in his rig, but it has been a bit hot. And humid.... My only little complaint about the TC is all the leads you need to operate in stereo, guitar and headphones monitor. BluesKing777.
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