merciful-evans Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 10 hours ago, Leonard McCoy said: It's a combination of a shielding issue as well as the then-new plastic backplates they used back then as far as I remember. Do a quick Youtube search to be the wiser and how to go about it. ahh... period correct plastics hum. That's not a fault. It's a feature. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard McCoy Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 (edited) On 1/18/2021 at 5:13 PM, ChuckStoat said: Gonna Re-Re-Up this thread as I have similar problems also with a 2017 Les Paul Classic (including noise diminishing almost completely when I touch anything metal on the guitar). It was checked out by a tech during a set up about a year ago. He said that it wasn't a grounding issue and that to really do anything about it would probably require replacing electronics. It wasn't really clear if he meant pickups or just like wiring and pots. Honestly didn't have a great experience with the guy. Be that as it may, it seems like the issue probably has to do with RF interference and this guitar being particularly sensitive to it. Which would indicate shielding as a possible remedy, but given the exposed pickups on the Les Paul Classic wondering if there would really be any benefit in shielding cavities if the pickups are left uncovered? Also might be a reason why these sorts of problems seem to be common on the Classic in general (given internet comments) with the uncovered pickups. A related question as I know very little about electrical stuff. My other single coil guitar (Telecaster) has the same issue, but not as bad. Would that make sense given that the output on the Gibson is higher (ergo noisier)? Check out these two videos below whether that's what you're experiencing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0h-mbpU8AxE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2PoPZ9OcMA Edited January 19, 2021 by Leonard McCoy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckStoat Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 1 hour ago, Leonard McCoy said: Check out these two videos below whether that's what you're experiencing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0h-mbpU8AxE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2PoPZ9OcMA Ah - no that isn't what I am talking about. Actually I did have that issue but it seems to have alleviated over time maybe with some laquer curing and also moving to an apartment that maybe leads to less static electricity. But there are some examples of the problem I am talking about in both of these videos. The guitars have a pretty noticeable background buzz which mostly goes away when he touches the strings. This sequence from the second vid gets at it. Starting at around 13:36 when he sets the guitar down you hear the buzzing which cuts out when he lays his fingers across the strings. Then at 13:45 there is an audible click when he touches the strings and the sound goes away then when he lets go the buzz is there prior to when he takes the jack out. https://youtu.be/_2PoPZ9OcMA?t=816 That is my problem - including the clicking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickc Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 (edited) As stated earlier and correctly by a few contributors despite some very clear confusion of others about how an electric guitar works and is grounded, the strings are grounded through the bridge (Nashville) or tailpiece (ABR-1) via a single wire that connects the bottom bridge/tailpiece post typically to one of the pots and on to the output jack. It is common to see this ground missing in Les Paul wiring diagrams so it is possible that when a guitar is modded, the ground may be missing or disturbed. The bridge/tailpiece post ground wire is very simply pushed into place through a small hole inside the guitar before the post is installed and the post is then push fit into the guitar so that it makes contact with wire. Rather hokey, so it is no wonder that sometimes this mechanical contact fails. I have seen some pro players guitars with a very clear, external ground wire connecting to the bridge on top of the guitar; probably ABR-1, using a little wire popping out of the bottom, rear corner of the bridge pickup. Whatever, if the ground wire is working, the guitar will NOT buzz loudly until grounded by the player. I have owned three Gibsons for over 25 years and none of them have ever had ground issues. They do not buzz when plugged into an amp. The OP is describing a grounding fault. Alex Lifeson's guitar below. A Nashville with an external ground. Edited January 20, 2021 by rickc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckStoat Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 Thought I would follow up on this with the result/cause/fix. I took it to a good local tech and after checking everything out they found that it wasn't a ground issue. What it was was a big lack of shielding combined with RF noise in both of the apartments I've lived in since purchasing the guitar. The open '57 Classic pickups, and according to the tech, particularly sub-par shielding on the humbucker leads, made it particularly susceptible to this. For electrical type reasons I don't particularly understand, there is a sort of grounding effect when you touch the metal for the RF noise that makes it go away (probably also some clicking from static due to the plastics, but that is somehwhat negligible in the scheme of things). The fix? New pickups with covers and superior shielding on the lead wires. Pretty much has taken care of everything. Plus I prefer the look of covered pickups and had kind of wanted to at least cover the original pickups anyway (though obviously that is personal taste. Kind of a bummer to have to spend $400 on your $1700 guitar, but they sound even better than the original pickups (which I liked pretty well outside of the noise), look great, and frankly, it beats moving to find a place with less crappy wiring, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Pepper Posted April 2, 2021 Share Posted April 2, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, ChuckStoat said: Thought I would follow up on this with the result/cause/fix. I took it to a good local tech and after checking everything out they found that it wasn't a ground issue. What it was was a big lack of shielding combined with RF noise in both of the apartments I've lived in since purchasing the guitar. The open '57 Classic pickups, and according to the tech, particularly sub-par shielding on the humbucker leads, made it particularly susceptible to this. For electrical type reasons I don't particularly understand, there is a sort of grounding effect when you touch the metal for the RF noise that makes it go away (probably also some clicking from static due to the plastics, but that is somehwhat negligible in the scheme of things). The fix? New pickups with covers and superior shielding on the lead wires. Pretty much has taken care of everything. Plus I prefer the look of covered pickups and had kind of wanted to at least cover the original pickups anyway (though obviously that is personal taste. Kind of a bummer to have to spend $400 on your $1700 guitar, but they sound even better than the original pickups (which I liked pretty well outside of the noise), look great, and frankly, it beats moving to find a place with less crappy wiring, etc. So I guess now you have a $2100 guitar. On my acoustics that don't come with ebony pins that I have to spend $20 to get is kind of a bummer. $400 extra to rectify the situation is a absolute travestly. Edited April 2, 2021 by Sgt. Pepper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merciful-evans Posted April 3, 2021 Share Posted April 3, 2021 Its good to know you got it sorted ChuckStoat. The 57 Classics in my LP are noisier than I think they should be. When I mentioned it to the luthier I use he said 'some of them just are'. I agree that covered pickups look better too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merciful-evans Posted April 3, 2021 Share Posted April 3, 2021 On 4/2/2021 at 3:40 AM, Sgt. Pepper said: So I guess now you have a $2100 guitar. On my acoustics that don't come with ebony pins that I have to spend $20 to get is kind of a bummer. $400 extra to rectify the situation is a absolute travestly. How much difference is there in sound ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct Posted April 3, 2021 Share Posted April 3, 2021 I would love to know what these apparently RF proof pickups are, and what constitutes "superior shielding". I've used '57 Classics pretty much since they came out and this is a first of it's kind story for me. rct 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinch Posted April 3, 2021 Share Posted April 3, 2021 3 hours ago, rct said: I would love to know what these apparently RF proof pickups are, and what constitutes "superior shielding". I've used '57 Classics pretty much since they came out and this is a first of it's kind story for me. rct It DOES beg the question! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merciful-evans Posted April 3, 2021 Share Posted April 3, 2021 3 hours ago, rct said: I would love to know what these apparently RF proof pickups are, and what constitutes "superior shielding". I've used '57 Classics pretty much since they came out and this is a first of it's kind story for me. rct The 57 Classics in my ES-339 are quiet and well behaved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Pepper Posted April 3, 2021 Share Posted April 3, 2021 If you have florescent lights and maybe it was one with a ballast and a dimmer switch, in the house they are murder on amps. I helped a friend troubleshoot a noise issue in her amp. As soon as she turned the fluorescent lights off in her upstairs loft the amp was back to normal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct Posted April 3, 2021 Share Posted April 3, 2021 ''57s are some of the best pickups Gibson has ever made, in my experience. Any guitar with those in it that I have ever owned and gigged, quite a few, has been silent, like all of my guitars. No amount of pickup changing or vastly superior shielding could ever make any of my guitars any quieter. My suspicion is a "tech" that had a guy in front of him that did not know which end was dangerous if you get me, and he went with it. That's my suspicion only. I sure would love to hear some corroboration from others that have installed RF proof pickups with superior shielding in order to curb what was, to me without holding it in my hands, a fairly obvious, fairly simple ground problem. rct 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckStoat Posted April 3, 2021 Share Posted April 3, 2021 There are a number of threads on various sites, including this very one started in 2017 and then revived a couple of different times by different people about noise issues with this specific model and year of Les Paul - 2017 LP Classic. Plus some other people with different years/models who seem to have similar problems looking for guidance. I chose to follow up on my question to assist anyone else who might be trying to track down a fix, not as a referendum on the value or quality of Classic '57 pickups. My guitar was checked out by two completely different techs, at different shops, at different times, neither of whom found a ground issue. This time, it was suggested that the best bang for the buck that would give the best result would be to replace the pickups with ones with covers as opposed to the open ones that came stock on the guitar (over for example having the pickup cavity shielded). Important to note, particularly for anyone who does have a similar issue, that I think the two places I have lived in since I bought the guitar are particularly "noisy". My guess is that someone in a place with better wiring/less extraneous electronic equipment in the room would likely not have such a significant issue. The new pickups achieved the desired effect. It is much less noisy and I am much happier with it. With respect to the shielding on the pickup leads, reading my previous post, I can see that it might come across that I was saying that the BULK of the issue was due to the leads/shielding. That is likely not the case. However I can say that having seen the shielding on the leads from both the Classic '57 and the replacement pickups (Seymour Duncan Antiquity btw), the Duncan shielding is visible thicker and more robust. With that being said, I do want to apologize to members of the Classic '57 community for any perceived slight of the shielding being used on their preferred pickup. tl;dr - If you have a 2017 Les Paul Classic with uncovered pickups and are having noise issues it is probably not a ground issue and you may find that the easiest, if sadly not inexpensive, way to remedy the problem is to cover or replace the pickups, or move to a place with better wiring. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Pepper Posted April 4, 2021 Share Posted April 4, 2021 (edited) 6 hours ago, ChuckStoat said: It is much less noisy and I am much happier with it. So tell me if I am wrong but after 2 techs looked at and giving their expert opinions about the issue, and you spending an extra $400 its only less noisy? Humbuckers are supposed to buck the hum, weather they have covers on them or not, hence the name of the type of pups? I have owned and wired up many guitars with singles and hums. I am also and electrician. And if you touch the string and the noise goes away you have a ground issue. I feel you may have been taken for what is called a ride. But if your happy after spending $1700 and then another $400 good on ya. Pickups can go microphonic and make all kinds of weird sounds if the coils get loose and that is why pups are wax potted, but a good tech should have been able to diagnose that. Edited April 4, 2021 by Sgt. Pepper 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merciful-evans Posted April 4, 2021 Share Posted April 4, 2021 11 hours ago, ChuckStoat said: With that being said, I do want to apologize to members of the Classic '57 community for any perceived slight of the shielding being used on their preferred pickup. tl;dr - If you have a 2017 Les Paul Classic with uncovered pickups and are having noise issues it is probably not a ground issue and you may find that the easiest, if sadly not inexpensive, way to remedy the problem is to cover or replace the pickups, or move to a place with better wiring. As I said. Both my LP and 339 have 57s. The 339 has covered pickups. Maybe that's what makes the difference? but I'm not going to do anything about it. Its not that bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tazman Posted March 3, 2022 Share Posted March 3, 2022 My 2005 LP was doing the same think. It seemed to be getting worst everyday but it may just have been because I was more aware it it.I FOUND THE PROBLEM. It was the power supply to my IPad. I have a good power supply for my Amp and pedal board but had recently plugged my IPad into it. When I moved the offending IPad to another power supply, the problem went away. Now it only happens when I touch the IPad power cable. I hope this helps others. Tazman Star Idaho Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
worshiplespaul Posted October 10, 2022 Share Posted October 10, 2022 On 12/22/2017 at 1:50 AM, jmjohnson said: Your grounds are fine. You can tell because the noise goes away when you touch metal on the guitar, so it is clearly connected to ground; the same thing will happen if you just hold the guitar and touch any other grounded metal - like say on the amp, or via a wire to the ground lug on an outlet- because YOU are being grounded. The guitar, and your body, act like big antennas picking up all the RF noise in the air. When you just hold the guitar, your RF noise gets radiated into the electronics/pickups. But when you are grounded and hold the guitar, you act as a big shield for the guitar and all the noise you collect is dumped to ground instead. Just a thought, but shouldn’t that be true for other brands and types of guitars like fender strats and teles and gretsch and prs guitars ? I face this problem only with my gibsons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidblast Posted October 11, 2022 Share Posted October 11, 2022 On 10/10/2022 at 4:54 AM, worshiplespaul said: Just a thought, but shouldn’t that be true for other brands and types of guitars like fender strats and teles and gretsch and prs guitars ? I face this problem only with my gibsons. it's the nitro finish. the others are polyurethane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinch Posted October 11, 2022 Share Posted October 11, 2022 3 hours ago, kidblast said: it's the nitro finish. the others are polyurethane Good point! I too have found Gibsons to be noisier than other guitars (picking up RF noise), but then again, when do I not touch the bridge or any metal part? Certainly not while playing. A small price to pay for the tone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidblast Posted October 11, 2022 Share Posted October 11, 2022 12 minutes ago, Pinch said: Good point! I too have found Gibsons to be noisier than other guitars (picking up RF noise), but then again, when do I not touch the bridge or any metal part? Certainly not while playing. A small price to pay for the tone. yea but it's so annoying it eventually stops being a problem, but it takes time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
worshiplespaul Posted October 11, 2022 Share Posted October 11, 2022 50 minutes ago, Pinch said: Good point! I too have found Gibsons to be noisier than other guitars (picking up RF noise), but then again, when do I not touch the bridge or any metal part? Certainly not while playing. A small price to pay for the tone. You’re right but my point is if other guitars can get it right, including ones with humbuckers, why can’t gibson fix this issue. Considering its a problem being faced by a majority of gibson owners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinch Posted October 11, 2022 Share Posted October 11, 2022 4 minutes ago, worshiplespaul said: You’re right but my point is if other guitars can get it right, including ones with humbuckers, why can’t gibson fix this issue. Considering its a problem being faced by a majority of gibson owners. Could be the nitro finish, like kidblast said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidblast Posted October 14, 2022 Share Posted October 14, 2022 On 10/11/2022 at 11:02 AM, worshiplespaul said: You’re right but my point is if other guitars can get it right, including ones with humbuckers, why can’t gibson fix this issue. Considering its a problem being faced by a majority of gibson owners. Getting Gibson to change from nitro finishes is like expecting the pope to tell priests they can marry, not gonna happen Besides Gibson, I believe Martin is the only builder that still uses nitro, they just make acoustics so probably never notice it there. It's one of those "it is what it is" things that we have no way to change it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
worshiplespaul Posted October 14, 2022 Share Posted October 14, 2022 26 minutes ago, kidblast said: Getting Gibson to change from nitro finishes is like expecting the pope to tell priests they can marry, not gonna happen Besides Gibson, I believe Martin is the only builder that still uses nitro, they just make acoustics so probably never notice it there. It's one of those "it is what it is" things that we have no way to change it. I think PRS uses nitro finish as well in their core line. I don’t think nitro is the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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