Alex Lifeson ES-355

[Wondo]

You know something we don't know? Has Alex been contacted?

[Staxman]

Welcome to the forums Alex .

 

I called customer service again . They do not have the correct trem arms ' date=' another Customer service told me

he knew nothing about it .

Gibson told me YOU approved that neck with the volute in the incorrect place .

I was wondering why you chose the necks " Volute " profile ? I was just wondering if

you really like a fake Volute between the first and second fret .

As you can see from the page I sent you the " admin " basically said you Approved that neck ,

and there is nothing wrong with it ?

Do you feel that is the truth ?

I have never read anything indicating you ask for you volutes in that position ?

 

If I want the volute removed out of my way , I must send it to Restore and Restoration and pay for it.

It is not a defect ?

 

Sorry to be nosey ,

Thanks again and best to you .[/quote']LerxtLee, are you insinuating that Alex himself will be posting here? I cannot imagine why he would want to open himself up to an dragged-out discussion on issues some here have with his own "inspired by" model. But if it is true, excellent and of course it will be a great thing to hear from him directly on the matter.

 

Just to clarify, though, you are making it sound like the AL-355 is a defective dog and I think you are exagerating the volute. As I and others have stated over and over, despite questioning the volute's position as a potential screw-up, and questioning Gibson's honesty as to why it exists, many here still feel this is overall an awesome guitar. If you want proof of how good this guitar plays and sounds with it's "fake" volute, I'd be happy to send you recordings of the Rush Tribute I play in. It friggin' rocks. And no, the trem-arm Gibson put on the AL-355 is sadly not exactly like Alex's original, but it is funcional and is the same longer arm shown in every picture Gibson has published of the AL-355. So even though they may have some naive customer-service folks, I do not agree that Gibson deceived us on the trem-arm or owes us a new one, as you insinuate, to make this a good guitar. And furthermore, the volute is not between the 1st and 2nd fret, it is only slightly to the right of the nut which although odd, shouldn't make hardly any difference to your playing unless you have a very contorted first position technique. If it were between the 1st and second frets, then of course it would be ridiculous and make the guitar unplayable, but it's not!!

 

If you are really able to involve Alex directly in this discussion, bravo I applaud your ability to get him in the loop and it will be great to hear his true opinion on the volute, but let's be real and not blow this thing out of proportion by only giving him your opinion and exagerating things. Yes, we all suspect the volute was perhaps a mistake Alex did not ask for, and the trem-arm is different from his original and customer-service hasn't a clue about it, but Al has the same guitar we do, he knows where the volute is and how the trem-arm looks compared to his original. And judging from an excellent perfomance on it in St. Paul recently, he is ok with it, or at least has accepted it, and it does not impede his playing.

 

Please do not put words in all of our mouths. We do not all have as deep of issues with the AL-355 as you do, nor have all of us been complaining about it endlessly and threatening to sell it as you have.

 

No offense, man, let's just keep this in perspective.

[PJLCC14]

:D :D

[Wondo]

I have run several experiments now, and I have concluded that you cannot hear the volute through an amp.

[Crappy]

I have run several experiments now' date=' and I have concluded that you cannot hear the volute through an amp.[/quote']

 

The volute can not be heard when used with a H&K amp.

 

(It has to be some type of time and space thingy that can only be heard during a full moon on the 6 Tuesday of some month and playing the guitar in a open field with the neck pointing due north and standing on one foot. :D )

[LerxstLee]

LerxtLee' date=' are you insinuating that Alex himself will be posting here? I cannot imagine why he would want to open himself up to an dragged-out discussion on issues some here have with his own "inspired by" model. But if it is true, excellent and of course it will be a great thing to hear from him directly on the matter.

 

Just to clarify, though, you are making it sound like the AL-355 is a defective dog and I think you are exagerating the volute. As I and others have stated over and over, despite questioning the volute's position as a potential screw-up, and questioning Gibson's honesty as to why it exists, many here still feel this is overall an awesome guitar. If you want proof of how good this guitar plays and sounds with it's "fake" volute, I'd be happy to send you recordings of the Rush Tribute I play in. It friggin' rocks. And no, the trem-arm Gibson put on the AL-355 is sadly not exactly like Alex's original, but it is funcional and is the same longer arm shown in every picture Gibson has published of the AL-355. So even though they may have some naive customer-service folks, I do not agree that Gibson deceived us on the trem-arm or owes us a new one, as you insinuate, to make this a good guitar. And furthermore, the volute is not between the 1st and 2nd fret, it is only slightly to the right of the nut which although odd, shouldn't make hardly any difference to your playing unless you have a very contorted first position technique. If it were between the 1st and second frets, then of course it would be ridiculous and make the guitar unplayable, but it's not!!

 

If you are really able to involve Alex directly in this discussion, bravo I applaud your ability to get him in the loop and it will be great to hear his true opinion on the volute, but let's be real and not blow this thing out of proportion by only giving him your opinion and exagerating things. Yes, we all suspect the volute was perhaps a mistake Alex did not ask for, and the trem-arm is different from his original and customer-service hasn't a clue about it, but Al has the same guitar we do, he knows where the volute is and how the trem-arm looks compared to his original. And judging from an excellent perfomance on it in St. Paul recently, he is ok with it, or at least has accepted it, and it does not impede his playing.

 

Please do not put words in all of our mouths. We do not all have as deep of issues with the AL-355 as you do, nor have all of us been complaining about it endlessly and threatening to sell it as you have.

 

No offense, man, let's just keep this in perspective.[/quote']

 

I in no way speak for anyone except myself , How could I possibly do that ?

I am not sure how I put words in all your mouths' ?

My post has nothing to do with you , nor anyone else in the forum .

Common sense would tell you that , yet your common sense said " I am making the guitar a dog"

I love my guitar and it sounds great .

Threatening to sell it , now thats harsh . If I choose to sell it so be it .

How is that SO threatening to you ? I am glad you are happy with the volute .

Perhaps I play in a different manner than you do ?

 

 

A reminder , for you , is this Volute on the White Alex-355 NOT between the 1st and 2nd fret ?

Perhaps you forgot . Maybe this will help you decide where the volute is .

Perspective is subjective , you love your incorrectly place volute and I do not

for a second believe it is alright . A simple difference of perpective .

You keep yours , I keep mine , but please do not tell me what I am doing to everyone or

saying for everyone .

That is harsh .

Way too much time babysitting that one so check the pic and tell me where it actually is again

if you can tell using your perspective .

 

It is best to right click open in another tab or page , you wont have to log back in if you do get bummped out

of the forum.

 

http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb206/RareFormMusic/DSC00186compred.jpg

 

Looks like it is where ?

[LerxstLee]

http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb206/RareFormMusic/DSC00186compred.jpg

 

It looks close to " inbetween the First and second fret ?? , on the back of the neck of course .

Side markers are excactly in the middle of the 1st and 2nd fret , the volute is near the nut really ?

[Crappy]

http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb206/RareFormMusic/DSC00186compred.jpg

 

It looks close to " inbetween the First and second fret ?? ' date=' on the back of the neck of course .

Side markers are excactly in the middle of the 1st and 2nd fret , the volute is near the nut really ?[/quote']

 

Hey I know that neck!!! It's my neck

[Wondo]

Crappy,

In the original post I stated it was your neck just to clarify.

 

But some people may have read that it was a 'crappy' neck and not Crappy's neck.

[Staxman]

http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb206/RareFormMusic/DSC00186compred.jpg

 

It looks close to " inbetween the First and second fret ?? ' date=' on the back of the neck of course .

Side markers are excactly in the middle of the 1st and 2nd fret , the volute is near the nut really ?[/quote']Correct me if I'm wrong, but I do not see any frets on either side of the volute, it is between the nut and the first fret?? The nut is not a fret, as I understand it. If the nut is technically considered the first fret then I stand corrected.

 

And don't misunderstand, I am not happy about the volute. I just don't find it impedes playing the guitar and it's a done deal so I have accepted it. If you feel I am being to harsh then my apologies, but you have continued to be very vocal about your dislike for the volute when most of us have moved on to enjoying the good things about this guitar, and if you are trying to communicate to Alex how his guitar is thought of by those that own them, he should also hear the positive side of things, that's all.

 

Peace

[Crappy]

Crappy' date='

In the original post I stated it was your neck just to clarify.

 

But some people may have read that it was a 'crappy' neck and not Crappy's neck.

 

I just couldn't help it, I just had to make fun of it. /

 

AL-246 is playing great, I just changed out the nut on it to a bone nut. I just love the feel and sound of this thing.

 

 

On another note, I checked one of the local dealers near me for something and what do I see hanging on the wall it's a AL-355. I ask to take a look at it and I have to say there are some lemons out there. I will not go into how many things I found wrong on it, alot were minor and could be fixed. But the volute on that neck made my neck look like it didn't have one. The dealer can't evey get gibson to take it back because that's what Alex signed off on.

I told the dealer to keep me in mind if he wants to make a deal on it and then I'll send it off to Freddy.

[LerxstLee]

Correct me if I'm wrong' date=' but I do not see any frets on either side of the volute, it is between the nut and the first fret?? The nut is not a fret, as I understand it. If the nut is technically considered the first fret then I stand corrected.

 

And don't misunderstand, I am not happy about the volute. I just don't find it impedes playing the guitar and it's a done deal so I have accepted it. If you feel I am being to harsh then my apologies, but you have continued to be very vocal about your dislike for the volute when most of us have moved on to enjoying the good things about this guitar, and if you are trying to communicate to Alex how his guitar is thought of by those that own them, he should also hear the positive side of things, that's all.

 

Peace[/quote']

 

No need to correct you . I worded that wrong .

Simple enough it is behind the first fret and the nut . My my I sit here corrected . :)

I Guess that makes it in the correct spot for you . :P

I still must say I do not think that is where it should be . Period

I actually Know that is not where it belongs .

I am still trying to find another guitar with a volute , yes , other than the

Gibson's Al-355 s volute, that is placed there , and why .

 

My guitar sounds great , plays great .

I do not mind the small details that are evidently also incorrect .

I have said that before .

 

If the volute is in the wrong place , it is incorrectly manufactured period.

I am glad you can deal with the volute .

I have said before , I love the neck , except the glaring defect of the volute .

I can play it like it is also ,

Why should I have to except a great guitar with a defect ?

Why is it that you take it so personal .

It is not about you nor Alex . It's the way it is manufactured .

 

I have a problem with the volute .

It is incorrect.

Black and white .

 

I am speaking for myself as always .

 

Chill out , it is not about Alex , Rush , or any of my other guitars and basses . :)

[Custom Admin]

 

If the volute is in the wrong place ' date=' it is incorrectly manufactured period.

I am glad you can deal with the volute .

I have said before , I love the neck , except the glaring defect of the volute .

I can play it like it is also ,

Why should I have to except a great guitar with a defect ?

 

[/quote']

 

the guitar is manufactured to an approved set of specs. it is not manufactured "wrong", nor is it defective. you may not agree with the spec, and that's fine. But the guitar is not defective.

 

i'm having a hard time understanding such a violent change in position on this topic, when your very first post on the AL (back on June 13th) said this:

 

I saw some blatting about the volute , I am sure you were looking at the wildwood pics , you need to notice

that he guitar hangs higher when placed on thier display hook backwards . The volute is not anywhere near the 1st , 2nd , nor 3rd frets . Play one first before you "think" something up . The volute is just fine .

 

i've left both threads about the AL open because i think it's important that people be allowed to say what they think about our products, be it good or bad. but really...enough is enough. "Except" the guitar for what it is and enjoy it. Or don't "except" it and get rid of it.

[Scuba Steve]

Quote from admin :

 

This morning i finally got a chance to look at the whitewood neck Memphis is using as a template for the AL, and to compare that sample to an unfinished AL (i believe it was AL219). the volute is in the same location on both necks, and in the same place that several of you have mentioned as being incorrect.

Unfortunately, i never got a look at the prototypes, so i am left to assume that, based upon the neck template i saw, this is how the protos are as well, and that Alex approved the guitar as we are making it.

 

I'm sorry for the delay on getting this info to those of you that have concerns.

 

Dear Admin,

Are you totally sure you got Lifesons approval on this ?

[Custom Admin]

Quote from admin :

 

 

 

Dear Admin' date='

Are you totally sure you got Lifesons approval on this ?

[/quote']

 

steve,

you can't market and sell a product using an artist's name and image without their approval (at least in this business), so yes, i am totally, 100% sure that Alex approved the guitar as it is.

 

In addition, i personally spoke to Alex's tech (Bucky) at the Custom Shop this past thursday, and Bucky reiterated to me that Alex loves the guitar.

[Staxman]

 

steve' date='

you can't market and sell a product using an artist's name and image without their approval (at least in this business), so yes, i am totally, 100% sure that Alex approved the guitar as it is.

 

In addition, i personally spoke to Alex's tech (Bucky) at the Custom Shop this past thursday, and Bucky reiterated to me that Alex loves the guitar.

 

[/quote']That's good enough for me. If Bucky says Alex loves the guitar as it is built, to specs he approved, then I believe it. I don't know Bucky, but someone who has worked closely with him on Alex's rig has told me he is a decent, honest guy, so I have no reason to believe he would lie or blow smoke about the issue. With this new info, I would infer that our accusations of Gibson blundering the volute and covering it up by saying Alex approved it were perhaps quite unjust, and Al simply decided to wander from the original neck profile and chose something new and different to his own taste that worked for his style. IMHO, the volute is "case closed" and not a defect, just an odd placement that for whatever reason Alex likes and approves.

 

Truth is even though I disliked the volute at first because Al's original did not have it, from a playing standpoint I have grown quite used to it and now the guitar would feel odd to me if it were gone. Others probably disagree but if given the choice, I would not change it at this point. And now that we can lay to rest speculation on Alex's position, whether we like the volute or not we can know that although not VOS, this truly is an AL signature model, with no design aspects that Al didn't like or approve. And those of us that are lucky enough to own a good example of one that we like are part of a unique group with a unique guitar.

 

So, moving on to positive things on the AL-355, I have finished mixing down some new demo tracks of the Rush tribute I play in. I used AL-124 to track 2112 Overture/Temples The guitar almost seemed to play itself on this song, as if it were built for it, and the tones are out of this world. I believe the original studio version was done on his 335? Well whatever it was I imagine it must have felt back then to Alex a lot like this guitar feels to me today, the vibe is so "vintage Rush" it's scary. I can honestly say in my 30 years + playing Rush songs on guitar that the tones I'm getting out of this guitar (through H&K Switchblade) are some of the best I've ever gotten from any guitar..period. Plan to track Villa Strangiato next (and will try to come close to Wondo's magnificent performance on U-tube). I'm tingling with anticipation at how fun it will be and hopefully I can get a good take.

 

Rock on AL-355 brothers.

[PJLCC14]

Bucky says so.............;)

[Superdick2112]

 

the guitar is manufactured to an approved set of specs. it is not manufactured "wrong"' date=' nor is it defective. you may not agree with the spec, and that's fine. But the guitar is not defective.

 

i'm having a hard time understanding such a violent change in position on this topic, when your very first post on the AL (back on June 13th) said this:

 

[i']I saw some blatting about the volute , I am sure you were looking at the wildwood pics , you need to notice

that he guitar hangs higher when placed on thier display hook backwards . The volute is not anywhere near the 1st , 2nd , nor 3rd frets . Play one first before you "think" something up . The volute is just fine .[/i]

 

i've left both threads about the AL open because i think it's important that people be allowed to say what they think about our products, be it good or bad. but really...enough is enough. "Except" the guitar for what it is and enjoy it. Or don't "except" it and get rid of it.

 

Admin - Thank You for putting into words what about 290 of us have been thinking for the past few months! Almost all of us love our AL-355s, and for the unfortunate few who do not, its time to move on.

[Wondo]

Well, there you have it. Probably about as definitive as we are going to get. As I have been saying recently, at the risk of repeating myself again, the volute is something I have gotten used to and have no plans whatsoever to unload this guitar. It is a fantastic guitar and sounds HUGE! As I had said a while ago in some posts here or the other thread, I believe that the volute starts in the same place as a 76 but ends sooner. Therefore, we notice the "bump" because it does not end behind the nut. If the volute design was a concious decision, then the reason would be to have the volute, but not as steep so that if the palm needed to work around the volute, it could. As Crappy has mentioned, he noticed one for sale recently with a larger volute than his AL. I do think they may have come in various sizes and mine being very shallow has not been such a big issue for me. I, like others, at first was upset to learn that the "painstaking recreation of this iconic instrument" had somehow been other than stated. But, if one can stop obsessing over it and step back and look at the entire instrument, it is really quite remarkable. As I posted recently, my brother-in-law came over with a new Strat to play through some of my gear and then I broke out my three Les Pauls and my 356 to compare the guitars. Right before he left I plugged in the Lifeson. His response was, "Wow, that guitar sounds gigantic." And it does. It just secrets such a wonderful plethora of tone.

 

Stax,

Great to hear you are going to put up some clips. Can't wait to hear them. Thanks for the kind words of the La Villa clip. I keep meaning to post another song, but my band is now finishing our second CD we are in the mastering process now and getting ready to send it out to be printed and published. I am very excited about the new CD and will post a link here when we are done. My Iced Tea Axcess should be coming in to Saul any day now. (I hope there is no problems with this one!!!)

[Scuba Steve]

Thank you Admin,

I know if alex accepted it, He must have been told about it.

 

And if you did point out to him that the volute is a one of a kind mod

never seen on any other gibson guitar in history.

He Probably signed off on it right away ! (joking)

 

But seriously I like others have no intention of selling it but you need to know

how we feel ....

If I heard or was told that this was made with the volute in the wrong place

I would have given it a second thought, And I would have done more digging into what I was buying.

You would have got an email from me asking for pictures of the volute and not second guessing gibson

would have asked if mine could have been made more like the 70's era 355.

 

Don't take this wrong but I learned a very valuable lesson and I will never buy a custom shop gibson ever again !

 

I think gibson makes very wonderful looking guitars and I wanted to get a few others but I have been cured

from purchasing one ever again from gibson.

 

Thank you for the reply

Scuba

[Custom Admin]

Thank you Admin' date='

I know if alex accepted it, He must have been told about it.

 

And if you did point out to him that the volute is a one of a kind mod

never seen on any other gibson guitar in history.

He Probably signed off on it right away ! (joking)

 

But seriously I like others have no intention of selling it but you need to know

how we feel ....

If I heard or was told that this was made with the volute in the wrong place

I would have given it a second thought, And I would have done more digging into what I was buying.

You would have got an email from me asking for pictures of the volute and not second guessing gibson

would have asked if mine could have been made more like the 70's era 355.

 

Don't take this wrong but I learned a very valuable lesson and I will never buy a custom shop gibson ever again !

 

I think gibson makes very wonderful looking guitars and I wanted to get a few others but I have been cured

from purchasing one ever again from gibson.

 

Thank you for the reply

Scuba

 

 

 

[/quote']

 

Steve,

i appreciate your comments, and i absolutely get where you're coming from on this issue.

I'm very sorry that this experience has soured you on what we do here at the CS.

[ES345]

let me start by saying i am from a different era. I heard of Alex, but never heard him or his band play. and i won't bore you with how it was in the old days when you went to the music store to buy a guitar. i own many gibson guitars, they are good, attention to detail has suffered during various periods but they are making some nice guitars over the past several years.

 

However, this whole issue on this volute is a bit absurd. the neck of the guitar is kinda like where the rubber meets the road so to speak, and to me the neck and the size of the frets, the feel etc. i will never get to plug anything in if i don't get the feel first. i just hang it up and move on. So the neck is like highly important.

 

today internet buying is partly to blame for buying things unfelt, tried etc. and gibson's policy of not allowing pictures, much less from all angles exacerbates this whole experience. i am sure all those who have purchased this guitar and still have a major issue with the volute (i would) are going to be extremely skeptical of future purchases and not just from gibson. (probably not a bad thing).

 

those that say it is ok, are still going to be skeptical, because lets face it they have done a certain amount of rationalization to finally, somewhat, accept this design. did anyone who bought it actually know the volute was in the playing area. Or does/did gibson's spec sheet say "neck profile rounded with volute between the nut and the first fret. this would be important, since it is such a departure from normal building, at least like scale length, 24 3/4, 23 and 1/2 etc.

 

It is at least an unwelcome surprise, most would say a hindrance, somewhat like the goal post being on the 10 yard line, but you still got to get to the end zone to score. i love 3X5 guitars, they just feel right size, most of the necks, tone, versatility for me it is the best design for, jazz, rock, blues, loud or soft, controllable feedback, versatility, etc. I like the look of the AL 355, why i even like and have used a varitone for 46 years.

 

gibson, alex and i guess even buzzy have somewhat of a vested interest in holding the line on this issue. But believe me you will never convince me (you really don't have to), the majority of purchasers of this model, guitar players in general that this was actually designed to be the way it is. (maybe miss designed). Why because it serves no practical purpose other than to hinder the guitars playability. i am afraid common sense has to be the bottom line here. so every time gibson, or others say anything to support this design/miss design/mistake it is just ignorant and actually insults our intelligence.

 

i learned a long time ago if you screw up, fess up, don't perpetuate and defend a position that is really, (for those of us with common sense) not defendable.

 

I have always been treated fairly by gibson, especially the custom shop, but i must say i am very disappointed in gibson's position on this. Gibson's artist relation guy says " Alex are you sure you want to put the volute in this area, we have never nor has any manufacturer of guitars ever done this, because it will hinder the playability and even your original that we are copying dose not have the volute there. Alex what purpose would this serve?

 

If this wasn't even asked, why? We are not talking about pups, strings, color, fake aging, cigarette burns etc. We are talking about basic correct/playability construction of an expensive custom shop guitar.

 

So what could gibson do? Issue a recall, take a number if you are not satisfied because we realize this is a major issue you can return the guitar and we will rework the volute area ( i am not a luthier, hopefully this is practical) and eliminate the bump in the playing area, refinish the guitar etc. and return it to you at no cost.

 

this seems resonable to me.

 

 

 

peace

[VRob8]

I parted ways with my Lifeson and don't regret doing so. I had very high hopes for the guitar but it significantly fell below expectations in several areas (which I won't go into because it's irrelevant now) so I sold it on. The volute issue didn't even come into it, (though it didn't help endear me to the guitar), it was simply that it was poorly made in other respects. I have plenty of Gibson Custom shop guitars which I'm very happy with, but this particular guitar was sloppily produced, IMO. To those who like and appreciate the guitar, I say congrats and enjoy. To those who don't get on with it, sell it and move on. You'll find no shortage of takers and someone out there will definitely enjoy it despite its foibles. Seriously, life is too short to obsess over a misplaced volute, so if it makes you unhappy, dump it. It's called affirmative action.

[enduroexpert]

 

the guitar is manufactured to an approved set of specs. it is not manufactured "wrong"' date=' nor is it defective. you may not agree with the spec, and that's fine. But the guitar is not defective.

 

[/quote']

 

Okay then........fair comment Custom Admin...!!!

 

I love this guitar, I really do, but I still have a couple of questions:

 

......What is the function of this volute and why is it in that "Approved" position...?

 

The photo comparison thats been floating round the forum for the last few months shows its like no other Gibson Volute ever and from an engineering stand point, it doesn't benefit the guitar whatsoever. The guitar was designed by a designer, can someone just ask him/her why the volute has been put there please...? It really is the most simple of requests from 300 folk who have shelled out the best part of $4000 for a guitar. We all accept the fact it was approved by Alex but why is it there....?

 

Cheers

 

Johnny

[turkeyT]

 

[...]What is the function of this volute and why is it in that "Approved" position...? [...]

 

It really is the most simple of requests from 300 folk who have shelled out the best part of $4000 for a guitar.

 

You're not speaking on behalf of anyone else who bought the guitar - only yourself. Do you really think there's an explanation other than it's a trivial design mistake that doesn't affect the sound, playability or look of the guitar?

 

Since you keep asking the same question over and over and keep getting no answer from Gibson, why not just re-read the middle part of the thread over and over?

 

We love the guitar. Alex FREAKING Lifeson loves the guitar. Time to move on. QED.