J-45 Comparison - five of same model from Music Villa

[Dave F]

 

 

[RBSinTo]

I'm a little unclear on the concept being discussed here. Yes it sounds nice that there is a j45 for everyone, at the same time, how many high end stores carry multiple copies of any given model so that one can select the Goldilocks example that is "just right" for them? Neither of the two best musical instrument stores here in Toronto does.

Is this characteristic of Gibson's product output a result of the variation in the natural materials used, or some other factors?

RBSinTo

[BluesKing777]

 

Unclear?

Pretty clear to me - the J45 Standard robot machine must be spitting out J45 standards....and nothing else. What happened to all the new models? Is that just an 'iffy maybe we will do them' sometime in 2025? After the NAMM 2020 splash, I assumed the J45 Original would replace the J45 Standard? Guess not.

But the shop in the city near me is waiting for the new models after all the interest from the NAMM videos, and they get one SJ200 Standard turn up, 4 - FOUR J45 Standards and 2 of the new cheapies. The cheapies have gone but the Standards still sit on the shelf......

Edit: It just occurred to me that the Golden Age tuners (imitation old style Kluson type) are out of stock and they have plenty of Rotos left....?

 

BluesKing777.

 

 

Edited October 6, 2020 by BluesKing777

[j45nick]

2 hours ago, RBSinTo said:

I'm a little unclear on the concept being discussed here. Yes it sounds nice that there is a j45 for everyone, at the same time, how many high end stores carry multiple copies of any given model so that one can select the Goldilocks example that is "just right" for them? Neither of the two best musical instrument stores here in Toronto does.

Is this characteristic of Gibson's product output a result of the variation in the natural materials used, or some other factors?

RBSinTo

There are a lot of variables that result in subtle differences. What is not discussed is that even nominally-identical strings may sound different depending on how long they have been on the guitar.

All of those J-45s sound  similar, and differences are probably the result of a combination of things, including slight differences in wood, sanding during construction, set-up, etc..

Suppose you had a set of identical triplets. How identical would you expect them to be?

I suspect that at different points in time, you might prefer one or another of those J-45s.

If you want absolute consistency, maybe a completely machine-made guitar is the answer.

In my experience, you find a lot more differences in the same models after they have some age on them. When they are new, they are very similar.

[zombywoof]

This one was posted over at AGF a few days back.  Me, I have never even been in a room with that many new J45s.  But my Bozeman want list is pretty slim and there be no J45s on it.

[75 Hummingbird]

The fit and feel of a  J 45 are one thing that can be  duplicated  ,,,,the tone and sound are proven impossible to   duplicate from one guitar to another .

[Dave F]

No offense intended but it would be nice to hear from someone who actually buys new Gibson guitars. You three  (there's a lot  more members in this category) would be toward the bottom of my list for opinions on new ones. Of course ZW just did venture into the newer market 😀  and Nick has the L00 Legend.

I really don't mean any disrespect, I wouldn't even want Tom B on this list. Early 60's would be a new guitar to him .

For me. listening to those 5 in a row, I could pick a favorite sound wise but would still handle each one if possible.

And I do agree that finding a shop with that selection would be rare for me. 

Many of the 5 star dealers will make videos comparison for you if you ask. If I was really interested I would ask them to do a facetime.

 

[E-minor7]

Aahhh, , , an A-B-C-D-E - lOVE it, , , though this bunch seem pretty similar. 04 - 28 - 51 - 69 - 80.

04 however is richer than the following 28. 51 is somewhat dry and 69 slightly loose. Hmmm, 80 may be mister Average, but that ain't bad in such company.

Good original idea to fire 5 in a row - never seen it before. 

. . . . . . . . . . Regards - 

The man who had 4 Hummingbirds

Edited October 7, 2020 by E-minor7

[BluesKing777]

4 hours ago, Dave F said:

No offense intended but it would be nice to hear from someone who actually buys new Gibson guitars. You three  (there's a lot  more members in this category) would be toward the bottom of my list for opinions on new ones. Of course ZW just did venture into the newer market 😀  and Nick has the L00 Legend.

I really don't mean any disrespect, I wouldn't even want Tom B on this list. Early 60's would be a new guitar to him .

For me. listening to those 5 in a row, I could pick a favorite sound wise but would still handle each one if possible.

And I do agree that finding a shop with that selection would be rare for me. 

Many of the 5 star dealers will make videos comparison for you if you ask. If I was really interested I would ask them to do a facetime.

 

 

 

 

Maybe they should call the new J45s something like the Gibson J45 -2020A, J45 - 2020B, J45 2020C  so it is clear the guitar is new in 2020..instead of confusing all the poor old fellas with this Vintage, Original, Historic, Standard, Modern, True Vintage, Modern Deluxe.....😜

 

 

BluesKing777.

 

 

Edited October 7, 2020 by BluesKing777

[j45nick]

11 hours ago, Dave F said:

No offense intended but it would be nice to hear from someone who actually buys new Gibson guitars. You three  (there's a lot  more members in this category) would be toward the bottom of my list for opinions on new ones. Of course ZW just did venture into the newer market 😀  and Nick has the L00 Legend.

Fair enough.

I actually have two modern Gibson acoustics: the L-00 Legend, and a 1943 SJ re-issue that was done for Fuller's Vintage Guitars as part of a limited run.

In both cases, I spent several years looking for good vintage examples of these guitars before buying the modern versions.

That  SJ is probably pretty analogous to the modern J-45s structurally, even though it differs in a lot of details, including neck, string spacing, bridge design, cosmetics, etc, etc, etc.

It is a remarkably good guitar, and I will probably keep it until I find a vintage version that blows it out of the water. I'm not holding my breath.

[Dave F]

13 minutes ago, j45nick said:

Fair enough.

Just haven’t fun with you Nick. 
I always appreciate yours and ZW’s insight and sharing your experiences. 

[j45nick]

14 minutes ago, Dave F said:

Just haven’t fun with you Nick. 
I always appreciate yours and ZW’s insight and sharing your experiences. 

I know. No offense taken in any case. 

[zombywoof]

13 hours ago, Dave F said:

No offense intended but it would be nice to hear from someone who actually buys new Gibson guitars. You three  (there's a lot  more members in this category) would be toward the bottom of my list for opinions on new ones. Of course ZW just did venture into the newer market 😀  and Nick has the L00 Legend.

I really don't mean any disrespect, I wouldn't even want Tom B on this list. Early 60's would be a new guitar to him .

For me. listening to those 5 in a row, I could pick a favorite sound wise but would still handle each one if possible.

And I do agree that finding a shop with that selection would be rare for me. 

Many of the 5 star dealers will make videos comparison for you if you ask. If I was really interested I would ask them to do a facetime.

 

 

No offense taken here as well.  My lot in life is that it has actually been easier for me to get my hands on "vintage" Gibsons than new ones.   I seem to have acquired a reputation for liking certain kinds of guitars facilitated by the fact a few small shops where I know the owners well are willing to get the guitars into my hands for a test drive.   Seems they have me pegged and have figured out it is the best way to sell me something.

Edited October 7, 2020 by zombywoof

[zombywoof]

4 hours ago, j45nick said:

That  SJ is probably pretty analogous to the modern J-45s structurally, even though it differs in a lot of details, including neck, string spacing, bridge design, cosmetics, etc, etc, etc.

It is a remarkably good guitar, and I will probably keep it until I find a vintage version that blows it out of the water. I'm not holding my breath.

 

What is the string spacing?  My experience has been that by 1942 Gibson went with a skimpier string spread at the bridge.  The difference between that on my '32 L1 and '42 J50 is pretty noticeable.    One of the factors which led me to choose the Fairbanks over the Gibson Smeck was the string spread.  So if the Fuller's guitar had a more generous  spacing it would have caught my attention as well.

Edited October 7, 2020 by zombywoof

[RBSinTo]

14 hours ago, j45nick said:

There are a lot of variables that result in subtle differences. What is not discussed is that even nominally-identical strings may sound different depending on how long they have been on the guitar.

All of those J-45s sound  similar, and differences are probably the result of a combination of things, including slight differences in wood, sanding during construction, set-up, etc..

Suppose you had a set of identical triplets. How identical would you expect them to be?

I suspect that at different points in time, you might prefer one or another of those J-45s.

If you want absolute consistency, maybe a completely machine-made guitar is the answer.

In my experience, you find a lot more differences in the same models after they have some age on them. When they are new, they are very similar.

Nick,

I understand and agree with your explanation. However, unless Gibson dealers always have  multiple copies of every instrument on hand for buyers to chose from, what is the point of claiming that one can choose from a variety of different sounds in any given model?

As an aside, I've never claimed to have such a discerning ear that selecting the perfect guitar was a priority for me. Both my 1974 D-28 and 2001 J-45 standard were purchased used, and neither was "cherry-picked". However whether either or both s/are good or bad examples of their respective models, has never been an issue. They both sound very nice to me.

RBSinTo.

[Seagull]

I am a bit confused myself.  It has always been my experience that no two guitars even the same model sound identical.  I also don't think you have to play fifty to find one you like.  You play till you like one.  If a store has one and you like it, buy it.  Nothing in that clip seems like new information.  I would expect the same result with any model of any maker?

Is there someone out there with such a cookie cutter process? 

Full disclosure;  Proud new owner of an J45 Studio.  I am still in the honeymoon period.  I think I may have the best one ever made. 

 

[zombywoof]

30 minutes ago, Seagull said:

I am a bit confused myself.  It has always been my experience that no two guitars even the same model sound identical.  I also don't think you have to play fifty to find one you like.  You play till you like one.  If a store has one and you like it, buy it.  Nothing in that clip seems like new information.  I would expect the same result with any model of any maker?

Is there someone out there with such a cookie cutter process? 

Full disclosure;  Proud new owner of an J45 Studio.  I am still in the honeymoon period.  I think I may have the best one ever made. 

 

 

No problem.  If you read the forums you will see where somebody bought a Gibson this or that sight unseen but were assured by the sales person it was the best sounding of the all of that model they had in stock.  I always wondered what they told the guy who called the next day.  Somehow I doubt it was something like you are getting the second best best sounding of those we have left.

[Seagull]

36 minutes ago, zombywoof said:

 

No problem.  If you read the forums you will see where somebody bought a Gibson this or that sight unseen but were assured by the sales person it was the best sounding of the all of that model they had in stock.  I always wondered what they told the guy who called the next day.  Somehow I doubt it was something like you are getting the second best best sounding of those we have left.

If you take out the word "Gibson", I'm sure it happens everyday of the week somewhere.  Whats a salesman gonna say. lol

[MorrisrownSal]

I saw that on AGF too. Loved the comparison. I liked the last two best - and no doubt others will like different ones. Our preferences are different. Our ears are at different stages of high frequency hearing ability... So many variables.

I can say that I have two Gibsons now - each about a year plus and minus in my stable. It's been a tough year on my farm, and I havent had the luxury to be distracted by GAS. And in the process I mostly feel no downside for chilling out and enjoying what I have. Love my J45-TV, and I love my quirky J.45 Studio...

Believe it or not, the only model out there that tempts my impulse recently is a Japanese made Yamaha FG5 - go figure.

 

 

[j45nick]

9 hours ago, zombywoof said:

 

What is the string spacing?  My experience has been that by 1942 Gibson went with a skimpier string spread at the bridge.  The difference between that on my '32 L1 and '42 J50 is pretty noticeable.    One of the factors which led me to choose the Fairbanks over the Gibson Smeck was the string spread.  So if the Fuller's guitar had a more generous  spacing it would have caught my attention as well.

SJ string spacing at bridge is only about about 2.19", as opposed to the wide 2.375" of the L-OO Legend.

[BluesKing777]

1 hour ago, j45nick said:

SJ string spacing at bridge is only about about 2.19", as opposed to the wide 2.375" of the L-OO Legend.

 

Can I ask where you are measuring? (pinhole edge to pinhole edge?). I don't suppose you have mm? Even a fraction (just under 2 1/8")?

 

I have seen another brand use a jig and template, but I suppose the more 'custom' models are done by hand/eye?

 

BluesKing777.

 

 

[zombywoof]

1 hour ago, j45nick said:

SJ string spacing at bridge is only about about 2.19", as opposed to the wide 2.375" of the L-OO Legend.

 

I guess I inferred that the Fullers guitar had a more generous string spacing.  With the exception of an occasional Custom Shop guitar, the Legend guitars were those rare instances where Bozeman attempted to replicate original structural specs. 

[j45nick]

16 minutes ago, BluesKing777 said:

 

Can I ask where you are measuring? (pinhole edge to pinhole edge?). I don't suppose you have mm? Even a fraction (just under 2 1/8")?

 

I have seen another brand use a jig and template, but I suppose the more 'custom' models are done by hand/eye?

 

BluesKing777.

 

 

OK, I had lost the longer post I did earlier that had the metric measurements

Measurements at bridge are center of pinhole to center of pinhole (center of low E to center of high E)

SJ re-issue is 55.5 mm

L-OO Legend is 60.3 mm

If you want to do it yourself, the conversion formula is decimal inches x 25.4= mm. Conversely, mm divided by 25.4 = decimal inches. If you want to convert that to fractions, you're on your own, although 1 3/4"= 1.75"=44.5 mm.

Edited October 8, 2020 by j45nick
additional info

[BluesKing777]

59 minutes ago, j45nick said:

OK, I had lost the longer post I did earlier that had the metric measurements

Measurements at bridge are center of pinhole to center of pinhole (center of low E to center of high E)

SJ re-issue is 55.5 mm

L-OO Legend is 60.3 mm

If you want to do it yourself, the conversion formula is decimal inches x 25.4= mm. Conversely, mm divided by 25.4 = decimal inches. If you want to convert that to fractions, you're on your own, although 1 3/4"= 1.75"=44.5 mm.

 

 

My digital vernier has a button to press to show all 3 measures! 55.5 mm is 2 3/16".......60.3 mm is 2 3/8" (my personal fave!).

A lot of guitar US builders use the fractions while Europe/Australia use mm and hopefully don't round out to the closest.

All meaningless unless you have played it and want to replicate it on another build, perhaps.

 

BluesKing777.

 

Edited October 8, 2020 by BluesKing777

[Dave F]

23 hours ago, j45nick said:

OK, I had lost the longer post I did earlier that had the metric measurements

Measurements at bridge are center of pinhole to center of pinhole (center of low E to center of high E)

SJ re-issue is 55.5 mm

L-OO Legend is 60.3 mm

If you want to do it yourself, the conversion formula is decimal inches x 25.4= mm. Conversely, mm divided by 25.4 = decimal inches. If you want to convert that to fractions, you're on your own, although 1 3/4"= 1.75"=44.5 mm.

I did a quick check  of mine. All of them look to be 2-1/8" except the L00 RI is 2-3/8" and the '42 LG1 is 2-1/4"