Which choice between these two J-200s?

[E-minor7]

On 12/22/2020 at 1:00 PM, Zob Bimmerman said:

Hey guys,

I’m new (but I don’t expect you to go easy on me, haha).

After many years, I’m hoping to finally own a J-200.

Hey - you'll not be the first producer to have a J-200 within reach. Here Jimmy turns another page with your colleague Mickey Most's J-200.

Regarding the 2 in Q enough wise words have been said.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    But as an ear-man you probably know it comes down to extremely individual and unique factors when choosing instruments and gear for then to combine them in a recording.                             One man's/camp's right is another man's/camp's no-go.
                                                                                     Could be fun to hear some of your tracks with whatever Jumbo you bring home. Post us some links, Zob. . 

Edited January 4, 2021 by E-minor7

[Zob Bimmerman]

12 hours ago, 62burst said:

Was Gibson still doing the "shroud" case thing on some special runs as late as 2008? I've seen gray interiors, but never noticed the "Custom" word on the case exterior

I was curious about this too; both the 'shroud' and the "custom".

9 hours ago, Jinder said:

2008 was a good year

So interesting how there are these good and bad years/periods -  just like with wines. I've anecdotally heard about the nadir of the Norlin years, and the return to form with Bozeman, but I've never played such a range of Jumbos, like you guys, to have that authority. One day...! 

[Zob Bimmerman]

4 hours ago, E-minor7 said:

But as an ear-man you probably know it comes down to extremely individual and unique factors when choosing instruments

100%. Lovely to see that pic of Jimmy (with the mic pointed curiously close to the sound hole!)

 

4 hours ago, E-minor7 said:

Could be fun to hear some of your tracks with whatever Jumbo you bring home. Post us some links, Zob

Will definitely do so. The chain of variables in the recording context are like a Pandora's Box of considerations. Everything has to connect: the song > the guitar part itself > the performer > the guitar > the plectrum, and string gauge and age > the room > the mic(s) > the mic pre amp > the interface's audio-digital converter > the editing and mixing skills of the engineer.

So I've spent the last few years really trying to hone-in on each aspect to ensure that the overall chain combines to be "greater than the sum of its parts". Sounds crazy but only last year I got really into exploring different types of plectrums. I've been recording for nearly 20 years and always used the same two plectrum types! But that simple exploration made more difference than the mics.

When it comes to guitar shapes, I've always had Dreadnought and Parlour sizes at my disposal but never a Jumbo. Last year I found myself listening to commercial recordings which featured Jumbos and I could hear not only what I was missing, but what I should've been using all these years! 

So this Saturday I'm looking forward to finally doing what's been a long time a'coming 🤞 

[E-minor7]

32 minutes ago, Zob Bimmerman said:

Will definitely do so.

All exciting ^ look forward to hear more

[RBSinTo]

Zob,

just thought if you really  want to go crazy, check this one out, from here in Toronto:

https://www.12fret.com/instruments/gibson-sj200-jumbo-steel-string-sunburst-1951/

RBSinTo

[Paul14]

On 12/24/2020 at 8:24 AM, Zob Bimmerman said:

Jeepers! I’d say I’m within the realms of acceptable storage then. Your advise about avoiding external walls is great - duly noted.

It turns out that the Historic I’m leaning towards is also on eBay. I’d first contacted each seller after seeing both Historic and Standard on Facebook Marketplace - a platform which has worked best for me in recent years.

Re. possible reflection on upper bout of the Historic, here’s the link for the ad so you can see all the pictures :

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Gibson-sj-200-Electro-Acoustic-Guitar-/114435765772?_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49292

And for fair comparison, here’s the Facebook Marketplace ad for the Standard (it just might not be accessible if you’re overseas?):

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/838686896865527/

Feels wise to share in an honourable space such as this. FWIW I’m hoping to negotiate on the price 🤞

• Both sellers yet to send  videos. 
• Both want cash on collection.

The Facebook ones says no longer available? The one on eBay looks pretty cool though. Hope something works out for you. 

 

Edited January 4, 2021 by Paul14

[Sgt. Pepper]

11 hours ago, E-minor7 said:

I choose the B/W J P Page on the left over the filtered orangeish one on the right

 

[E-minor7]

1 hour ago, Sgt. Pepper said:

I choose the B/W J P Page on the left over the filtered orangeish one on the right

Topz ^ I took the heavy sunset burst

[Sgt. Pepper]

30 minutes ago, E-minor7 said:

Topz ^ I took the heavy sunset burst

I went with a tasteful B/W Burst with a nice flame.

[Jinder]

15 hours ago, E-minor7 said:

Hey - you'll not be the first producer to have a J-200 within reach. Here Jimmy turns another page with your colleague Mickey Most's J-200.

 

I've played this guitar...I did some recording at RAK back in 2008 and was lucky enough to be offered the use of it for the day, so recorded my parts with it and, whilst the rest of the band were tracking, I wrote a song with it. 

It's a very good example but, dare I say it, not the greatest '60s 200 I've played. Still, if you play the intro to Stairway on it, that tone is RIGHT there. A very spooky experience, especially when sitting behind the desk in Mickie Most's old office at midnight, with all the lights dimmed and flickering off the huge array of gold discs on the walls. 

[Sgt. Pepper]

11 hours ago, RBSinTo said:

Zob,

just thought if you really  want to go crazy, check this one out, from here in Toronto:

https://www.12fret.com/instruments/gibson-sj200-jumbo-steel-string-sunburst-1951/

RBSinTo

Wow, affordable for a owner of a major NFL sports team.

owner. Hope it sits there for a long while. 

The vintage market is stupid and unless your got $, which I don't, its like the hot porn stars I can look, but I will never be able to touch.

Edited January 5, 2021 by Sgt. Pepper

[Paul14]

2 hours ago, Sgt. Pepper said:

Wow, affordable for a owner of a major NFL sports team.  Hope it sits there for a long while. 

The vintage market is stupid and unless your got $, which I don't, its like the hot porn stars I can look, but I will never be able to touch.

Wasn’t exactly thinking the same, but something very similar! 😳

[E-minor7]

5 hours ago, Jinder said:

 

I've played this guitar...I did some recording at RAK back in 2008 and was lucky enough to be offered the use of it for the day, so recorded my parts with it and, whilst the rest of the band were tracking, I wrote a song with it. 

It's a very good example but, dare I say it, not the greatest '60s 200 I've played. Still, if you play the intro to Stairway on it, that tone is RIGHT there. A very spooky experience, especially when sitting behind the desk in Mickie Most's old office at midnight, with all the lights dimmed and flickering off the huge array of gold discs on the walls. 

I remember this from an earlier thread, but the story is good and deserves a re-run. Guess the late Most's relatives have it today. 

Thought Stairway was done on the Harmony H 1260 Sovereign, but then again don't have the expertise.                                                                                                                                                                                                   

The pic above is taken from a formidable performance which can be found on the Tube. Seems he treated the guitar with the then hip silk & steel strings and wanted extremely low action.                                               It sounds like anything else than the king of Gibsons. 

Donovan recorded at least 2 tracks on the big J : Sand and Foam and Young Girl Blues. And you clearly hear it.  

[Zob Bimmerman]

Hello chaps, hope you are all well!

My search has shown no signs of letting up. Given the cost and the restrictions of lockdown, I have been taking it slowly to learn as much as possible before parting with my pension savings! I wanted to check in with you all about an unusual specimen I’ve been alerted to.

It’s a 1969 one (pic attached) and its bridge has me wondering how this compares to the regular moustache ones? I’m assuming it was originally an ABR-1 Tune-o-matic but has been modified at some point to Gibson’s more recent bone saddle bridge? 

Have any of the you played one like this and are able to comment on it? Eg I hear the 70s butterfly bridges aren’t as good but perhaps this one is..?

For the record (quite literally) I’m never been keen on instruments older that 40yrs. And 20yrs is about right for me with acoustic guitars, so considering one from 1969 is a stretch.... BUT if it’s a sonic vibe, then I’d be prepared to make the pilgrimage!

Your thoughts and advice are warmly received, as always 🙂 

Edited May 4, 2021 by Zob Bimmerman

[zombywoof]

7 hours ago, Zob Bimmerman said:

Hello chaps, hope you are all well!

My search has shown no signs of letting up. Given the cost and the restrictions of lockdown, I have been taking it slowly to learn as much as possible before parting with my pension savings! I wanted to check in with you all about an unusual specimen I’ve been alerted to.

It’s a 1969 one (pic attached) and its bridge has me wondering how this compares to the regular moustache ones? I’m assuming it was originally an ABR-1 Tune-o-matic but has been modified at some point to Gibson’s more recent bone saddle bridge? 

Have any of the you played one like this and are able to comment on it? Eg I hear the 70s butterfly bridges aren’t as good but perhaps this one is..?

For the record (quite literally) I’m never been keen on instruments older that 40yrs. And 20yrs is about right for me with acoustic guitars, so considering one from 1969 is a stretch.... BUT if it’s a sonic vibe, then I’d be prepared to make the pilgrimage!

Your thoughts and advice are warmly received, as always 🙂 

I am impressed your are still at it. 

It is obvious that Gibson re-positioned the bridge pins in the closed moustache bridge.  Whether that makes a difference to anyone without dog hearing through I do not have a clue. I also want to say that in '69 Gibson abandoned the tune-o-matic bridge and went with the more standard ADJ saddle bridge. 

While I tend to not favor Kalamazoo Gibsons dating this late in the game, in 1969 the J200 was still being built in small numbers in the Custom Shop.  It will also  have the old style bracing footprint with a very wide angle X brace above and below the soundhole.  This bracing footprint was unique to the J200.   It also may still have the nasty large floating brace Gibson started going with in the early-1960s.  But as these were easily removed most were.

Other than that I would expect a '69 to have a 1 11/16" nut but still have  the typical 1960s skinny neck carve  and be quite heavy easily breaking the six pound mark.

Edited May 4, 2021 by zombywoof

[Zob Bimmerman]

That’s so interesting to read re. the various bracing formations.

And you think that if this bridge was modded, it was done by Gibson directly?

I’m imagining that the closed moustache bridge (with that extra MoP inlay) has an effect on the sound  when compared to the regular open moustache. Or, as you say, is this a case of ‘dog hearing’!

Also, the pick guard: it looks screwed in, and I guess the material too would be different. Any effects on sound?

Lastly, the wood. Is there such a thing as too old/dry? I find that with pianos, they lose some richness if they’re too old and haven’t been kept meticulously well (which is asking a lot of most owners).

As a producer, the recorded sound is my only priority. Feel-wise, I can adapt to most well made guitars. If the intonation is good, I’m good to go...

Thank you as ever for the insights!

[DanvillRob]

Nalyd,  Not sure you can get better info and opinions that what you were given here..... whatever you decide, (I personally like the 2nd one), keep us posted.   I'd LOVE to have a J-200.... it's just too big of a guitar for my body.