Wmachine Posted December 30, 2022 Share Posted December 30, 2022 On 12/28/2022 at 2:48 PM, Sgt. Pepper said: Here is what will happen. They will discontinue them, and then bring them back with an inflated price tag. ............. That's essentially what Gibson is doing right now like I said in an earlier post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROWB8 Posted December 30, 2022 Share Posted December 30, 2022 (edited) On 12/28/2022 at 10:32 AM, Coachmoe said: So what happened was a yr ago, '21, I was looking for an FB. Gibbys was listed but out of stock. I emailed them and I already told you the reply. I saw the epi one on sweatwater. Located one locally and drove 1 hr to try it out. Unknown to me, it was a '19 model. I did note a bolt on neck. Returned to rack and left. Options gone for a neck through, I purchesed the gibby SG STD '61. Loven it. Faster than I am. FF a yr to see your post. And your reply to me. Went to YT for reviews and saw neck through design, CTK, orange drop, and same wood w 9 ply. AND! The epi has a bound fret board. Gibbys $1900 doesnt. Gibbys also have dots where epi has traps. Rather see dots and banjos on FBs. But, at 1/3 the cost of a gibby, no brainner. So you see, it actually IS all your fault. Ty, you can take a bow. Edited December 30, 2022 by CROWB8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Pepper Posted December 30, 2022 Share Posted December 30, 2022 11 hours ago, Wmachine said: That's essentially what Gibson is doing right now like I said in an earlier post. I must have missed that post. Sorry to steal your thunder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Pepper Posted December 30, 2022 Share Posted December 30, 2022 Just wait until the ES-175 comes back into production. Over 7k ya think? The last time I played a new one was 2014 maybe. and it was $5499 or so. I know for certain the first number was a 5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wmachine Posted December 31, 2022 Share Posted December 31, 2022 (edited) 12 hours ago, Sgt. Pepper said: Just wait until the ES-175 comes back into production. Over 7k ya think? The last time I played a new one was 2014 maybe. and it was $5499 or so. I know for certain the first number was a 5. Maybe not $7K, but I think you've got the right idea, It will be undoubtedly be Custom Shop. Now that they have set precedent splitting up Memphis models with the higher end models going to the Custom Shop. I really believe Gibson's strategy will be to run as much though the Custom Shop as possible. More or less making Custom Shop models regular production models. Increase gross sales $$ and theoretically increase profits. As long as they can sell Custom Shops at Custom Shop prices they will, They already have plenty of guys willing to have them beat up guitars before buying them. "Affordable" is not part of the plan. Yeah, probably over $7k the more I think about it. Edited December 31, 2022 by Wmachine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROWB8 Posted December 31, 2022 Share Posted December 31, 2022 (edited) On 10/26/2021 at 6:30 PM, Coachmoe said: Classic, To further explain, the following post came from The Les Paul Forum. The name of the Gibson guy I mentioned in my previous post is Mat Koehler. Mat works in Product Development for Gibson. Here is part of my original question and his reply to my question about Firebirds being discontinued. My question pertains to USA Production Firebirds. Rumor floating around that they are going to be discontinued. What can you tell us about that? Additionally, how were the finish choices selected for the recent Birds, going back to say 2015? One year only Ebony, other years, Vintage Sunburst and a custom color. If the Firebird will continue to be a regular USA production model in 2022 and beyond, any chance one of the finishes would be White? Great questions! So a bit of historical context here...the original style Firebird (reverse) was designed outside of Gibson (by Ray Dietrich but you know this) in 1962 and it was up to Larry Allers and his team to figure out how to build the thing. They hadn't done anything like it, and the 9-ply centerpiece came about after two-piece centerpieces literally came apart. There was a wing redesign too. Anyway with the length of wood required for the neck-through and the complexity of the build made the model the scourge of the factory. It impeded throughput and with the introduction of the Thunderbird bass, the factory literally had to rearrange how they channeled these extremely long models through production. However players loved it and it was a commercial success, based on how many they were able to produce with such complexity. When all was said and done, the original style Firebirds and Thunderbirds were not made for more than two years. The Non-Reverse Firebird took its place as a much easier-to-build model with the classic set neck construction. It too was a commercial success, even moreso given the ability to fill an order book efficiently.Cut to today. Still a very difficult guitar to build. So difficult that it prompted that headstock change at USA (not at Custom Shop where a Historic Reissue is a Historic Reissue) and eventually let to the *temporary* discontinuation of it and the Thunderbird as you said. But we will have reverse Thunderbird artist models coming up, and we introduced Non-Reverse Thunderbirds which are killer. Non-Reverse Firebirds are next. The goal is to have a more manageable product life cycle...it helps the overall mix. So in a couple years we'll go back to the classic Firebird at USA, perhaps with some concessions like fewer body ply and definitely different tuner spacing. Great idea there, so thank you. White is the hardest color to get through a nitrocellulose guitar factory, bar none. But we are hard at work trying to make that and all lighter opaque colors factory-friendly at Gibson USA. Although white paint has been a battle since the Les Paul Custom in '61. Just very susceptible to airborne debris and aniline dye floating through the air and it's not easy to repair and rework. But people expect perfection, and that is what we aim for...just going to take some careful planning (and cleaning). That said, Custom Shop went through the same woes with white paint and came out on the other side better than ever. We're running a lot of white guitars there. AND I'm happy to announce that we have a Polaris White Johnny Winter Firebird V out of Murphy Lab dropping later this year which may be of interest to you. They are turning out killer! Classic, hope this sheds more light on your question. Another piece of the design puzzle, "Beginning in 2010, Gibson stated that they would no longer be creating banjo tuners for the Firebird." And what makes it worse, is that custom shop has produced banjos since 2010. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gibson_Firebird scratching head gif goes here. Edited December 31, 2022 by CROWB8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsongs Posted December 31, 2022 Share Posted December 31, 2022 The Steinbergers are really excellent Precise no slip Tuners.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wmachine Posted January 1, 2023 Share Posted January 1, 2023 21 hours ago, Larsongs said: The Steinbergers are really excellent Precise no slip Tuners.. Absolutely. The only "problem" with them is they are not Banjo tuners. They are worthy replacements though as far as concerned. Banjo tuners are not better tuners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coachmoe Posted January 1, 2023 Author Share Posted January 1, 2023 3 hours ago, Wmachine said: Absolutely. The only "problem" with them is they are not Banjo tuners. They are worthy replacements though as far as concerned. Banjo tuners are not better tuners. If you wrap banjos correctly, a good tight wrap, there are no issues with banjos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsongs Posted January 1, 2023 Share Posted January 1, 2023 I was concerned my Firebird V didn’t have Banjo Tuners.. I bought one with Steinbergers when that was all that were available. I figured I had a 45 day Return if I didn’t like them.. The Guitar literally never went out of tune.. I liked it & kept it.. Years later I still have it & tuning is one of the most stable of any Guitar in my Collection… If they ever reissue a proper Sunburst Firebird VII like Brian Jones played I want one.. I’d prefer it had Banjo Tuners.. I have nothing against them… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrdinaryNimda Posted January 1, 2023 Share Posted January 1, 2023 Anyone know if DEAN Guitars makes Firebird clones? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marco mancini Posted January 1, 2023 Share Posted January 1, 2023 American friends , banjo tuners on a Gibson firebird is a bit like a plate of Spaghetti alla bolognese with parmesan on it , they cannot go away from one another .😁 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marco mancini Posted January 1, 2023 Share Posted January 1, 2023 15 hours ago, Larsongs said: I was concerned my Firebird V didn’t have Banjo Tuners.. I bought one with Steinbergers when that was all that were available. I figured I had a 45 day Return if I didn’t like them.. The Guitar literally never went out of tune.. I liked it & kept it.. Years later I still have it & tuning is one of the most stable of any Guitar in my Collection… If they ever reissue a proper Sunburst Firebird VII like Brian Jones played I want one.. I’d prefer it had Banjo Tuners.. I have nothing against them… Dear larsongs ; do you know what they should do at Custom Shop ? a perfect reissue of this guitar https://ibb.co/GJ6BrYm the one of Allen Collins , with that Epiphone ear dog pick up on the Bridge and with that special bridge , with one volume pot and tone pot with the same clips over the rest of the holes , i would like to prove Mr. Murphy over that piece of art and maybe in different colours . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROWB8 Posted January 1, 2023 Share Posted January 1, 2023 (edited) 5 hours ago, OrdinaryNimda said: Anyone know if DEAN Guitars makes Firebird clones? He did a lot in the 80's. Pauls, explorers, a V, some oddities. Not sure if he did an FB. Dont think so. Not a true neck thru anyways. His point was to give us more affordable quality guits w the same~ sound. Edited January 1, 2023 by CROWB8 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROWB8 Posted January 25, 2023 Share Posted January 25, 2023 On 3/9/2021 at 3:44 PM, Coachmoe said: Greetings! I am hoping some admin from Gibson can shed some light on this subject: Are USA Production Firebird models being discontinued for 2021 / 2022? Scuttlebutt on several FB Firebird groups indicates that this is going to happen. This would just be USA production as there are several CS models of Firebirds currently listed as available on the Gibson site. Hopefully someone in the know has some inside info concerning this? Thanks in advance. I'm begining to think now that gibby will only make CS (neckthru)Firebirds. To offset/justify the costs of construction. Clues might be epis "inspired" line of the bird and others. Cost of labor in third world sources, gibby cannot compete. This has become evident to me after getting the new $649 '22 epi bird (ty @Coachmoe). Same construction, 1/3 the price of the $1900 gibby model. Even if one stuffed it with gibby guts, thats roughly still half the cost. I've been a staunch gibby/american fender fan all my life. But this epi version is a fine machine. Save switch and jack. But thats why Switchcraft was invented. I think the epi bird was the market test to that end. Furthermore, given that line of thinking, one might see capped bound LPs only out of the CS. Anything above a simple block of wood will soon be only from CS. If I said all that right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coachmoe Posted January 27, 2023 Author Share Posted January 27, 2023 Crow, You're welcome! you are right about the build quality on the IBG Firebird. In my opinion, it's the best bang for the buck going.. That being said, IF Gibson has a substantial price increase, I suspect there USA production sales will take a hit and the Epiphone line will have an increase. Additionally, there are tons of used Gibson's out there and there are always deals to be had. Personally, there are only a few Epi models I would consider owning. That's not meant to disparage the entire line. I have owned probably a dozen Epi Les Paul models and I have always found them to be lackluster in playability, tone and overall sound. I find their build quality quite high however. The Epi Birds, Flying V and Moderne models are great guitars too. It will be interesting to see how this all plays out in the coming months and the new couple of years. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROWB8 Posted January 27, 2023 Share Posted January 27, 2023 (edited) 7 hours ago, Coachmoe said: Crow, You're welcome! you are right about the build quality on the IBG Firebird. In my opinion, it's the best bang for the buck going.. That being said, IF Gibson has a substantial price increase, I suspect there USA production sales will take a hit and the Epiphone line will have an increase. Additionally, there are tons of used Gibson's out there and there are always deals to be had. Personally, there are only a few Epi models I would consider owning. That's not meant to disparage the entire line. I have owned probably a dozen Epi Les Paul models and I have always found them to be lackluster in playability, tone and overall sound. I find their build quality quite high however. The Epi Birds, Flying V and Moderne models are great guitars too. It will be interesting to see how this all plays out in the coming months and the new couple of years. I agree. But Epi is going to need a little history in build quality b4 I go there routinly. Think that was a point of yours. At this point, if the shift to china, exclusively for off shore, represents that "step above" in build quality, they're off to a good start. I have had a few epis. Oddly, prior to the bird, I once purchased an LP special 2 out of Indonesia around 2015. $210 to my door. That was an alright cheapo guit for a block of wood. Loose screws, fret ends that cut. But all manageable and straight. Kinda fun to play. Ended up giving to nephew. Tickled pink. The other was a 2017 SG faded for $475 no case. POS in every respect. Out of china also. "IF Gibson has a substantial price increase, I suspect there USA production sales will take a hit and the Epiphone line will have an increase." Me thinks thats their goal. Gibby strengthening the epi line while also changing up what they produce out of Nashville vs Memphis CS to minimize the hit, and at the same time, jack up prices. Prolly more money in the "budget" line (epi). Me thinks there's plenty of collectors out there to support all those RI's and relecs out of CS. Evident by constanly being "out of stock". Once the dust settles, I can see more CS models produced and epis get popular. Matt Heafy sure helped that along. There's a lot of pressure from off shore manufacturers. Ibenez, Schecter research, to name a few. High quality and ultra vesitile guits. Gibby is just now starting to catch up regarding versitality and "modern" build. But, they've got those die hard gibby fans that just wont go. So there is that. Only one caveat, if you buy electric epis, have an open account with switchcraft. Edited January 28, 2023 by CROWB8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROWB8 Posted May 24, 2023 Share Posted May 24, 2023 (edited) On 3/9/2021 at 3:44 PM, Coachmoe said: Greetings! I am hoping some admin from Gibson can shed some light on this subject: Are USA Production Firebird models being discontinued for 2021 / 2022? Scuttlebutt on several FB Firebird groups indicates that this is going to happen. This would just be USA production as there are several CS models of Firebirds currently listed as available on the Gibson site. Hopefully someone in the know has some inside info concerning this? Thanks in advance. Welp. Something has changed recently in May of '23. I go to gibby site every so often just to check. Where the Firebird for $1,999.00 was listing "out of stock" and no clues for continuation, or discontinuation for that matter, when gibby is queried, the listing now shows "notify me when in stock". And at least for now, same list price. https://www.gibson.com/en-US/Electric-Guitar/USA5KL895/Tobacco-Burst Not all that familiar with how gibby works in this instance. But I wonder if following through on notification puts one on a wating list or que of some sort. That would be a stones throw away from reserving. Deposit? Edited May 24, 2023 by CROWB8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coachmoe Posted May 25, 2023 Author Share Posted May 25, 2023 21 hours ago, CROWB8 said: Welp. Something has changed recently in May of '23. I go to gibby site every so often just to check. Where the Firebird for $1,999.00 was listing "out of stock" and no clues for continuation, or discontinuation for that matter, when gibby is queried, the listing now shows "notify me when in stock". And at least for now, same list price. https://www.gibson.com/en-US/Electric-Guitar/USA5KL895/Tobacco-Burst Not all that familiar with how gibby works in this instance. But I wonder if following through on notification puts one on a wating list or que of some sort. That would be a stones throw away from reserving. Deposit? Crow, REPEAT AFTER ME: NEVER TRUST GIBSON'S WEB SITE!!! 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparquelito Posted May 25, 2023 Share Posted May 25, 2023 This prompted a web search. And the strangest search result ever!!https://findmyguitar.com/top-lists/best-firebird-shape-guitars.php🤔 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROWB8 Posted May 25, 2023 Share Posted May 25, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Coachmoe said: Crow, REPEAT AFTER ME: NEVER TRUST GIBSON'S WEB SITE!!! 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 I'm not. Update from this AM. Gibby confirmed the changed listing with my gear guy. But as usual, with out explanation. So, being done outside GC's normal in house order process, I have my gear guy at GC placing an order with gibson as we type. He's been working with gibby for over 10yrs. Knows a guy who knows a guy thing. If we get a confirmation, then we know gibby has a few on a shelf somewhere. Gear guy and I figure there are some to be had within gibby's system. We know Nashville garage and other outlets may have a "stash" of guitars. Some were slated for mods while others slated for outlets like CME and the like. Crossing me fingers and toes. Edited May 25, 2023 by CROWB8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROWB8 Posted May 25, 2023 Share Posted May 25, 2023 17 minutes ago, sparquelito said: This prompted a web search. And the strangest search result ever!!https://findmyguitar.com/top-lists/best-firebird-shape-guitars.php🤔 As a search result, https://www.ebay.com/itm/125945630775 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparquelito Posted May 25, 2023 Share Posted May 25, 2023 I lusted after this exact one for almost a year. Went to pull the trigger on one, brand new, for $1,200 at the time. 2019. They had just sold out at Sweetwater, and everywhere else as it turned out. Nowadays I would have to have to pay twice that price for one, used.🤨https://reverb.com/item/60019854-2019-gibson-firebird-i-silver-mist-finish-electric-guitar-w-ohsc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdgm Posted May 25, 2023 Share Posted May 25, 2023 55 minutes ago, sparquelito said: This prompted a web search. And the strangest search result ever!!https://findmyguitar.com/top-lists/best-firebird-shape-guitars.php🤔 I remember Marco was very pleased with his one - 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrdinaryNimda Posted May 26, 2023 Share Posted May 26, 2023 (edited) I think there's no need to panic! 🧐 Gibson just recently issued a new "collection" of Protector guitar cases. There's eleven on offer, for all guitar types being made now. One of them is for the Firebird, so there's a lot of reasoning to support the idea, that the Standard Firebird will be back in stock. Which is good news in these God-forsaken times. (Protectors are listed below the soft cases):https://www.gibson.com/en-US/Collection/travel Here't the Firebird version:Gibson | Deluxe Protector Case, Firebird Edited May 26, 2023 by OrdinaryNimda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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