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Zakk1988

By Zakk1988
in Gibson USA

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Zakk1988

Zakk1988

Posted
Posted

Hey, I'm new here and I have a question for U, wise Gibson users O:) What's the difference in mounting strings normally and like Zakk Wylde around the ?bridge? well it is not bridge but I'm from poland and I'm not sure of my english O:) I think that I mean TAILPIECE, hope U know what i ask for ...

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bigneil

bigneil

Posted
Posted

welcome to the forum zakk. your english is good, you are correct it is called the tailpiece.

 

as for wrapping the strings round the tailpiece, i am sorry but i can only sugest that it creates a slightly different sound.

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Jantha

Jantha

Posted
Posted

The main advantage to doing this is that you can drop your taillpiece closer to the body and clear the edge of the bridge. Some people say that the lower tailpiece increases sustain.. but it definitely relieves stress on the posts.

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NeoConMan

NeoConMan

Posted
Posted

(Heavy sigh...)

 

Well, I'll wade into the muck one more time and bust a myth or two....

:-)

 

It's mostly a matter of personal taste, or to look cool like (Insert name of Guitar God here).

 

There are a couple of structural issues with the posts I'm not willing to risk - I've seen the damage first hand.

 

 

It Helps The Sustain

Not that I've ever been able to tell' date=' but I've only done it a couple times.

Very subjective.

If YOU think it lengthens sustain, go for it.

 

 

 

Less Stress On Post

WRONG!

The strings are applying their tension further up from the anchor point where the posts thread into the guitar.

The higher the string is from the body, the more leverage it applies to the base of the post - increases dramatically.

This is why Fender runs the strings thru the body.

 

For the least stress on the posts, string the guitar properly and run the tailpiece ALL THE WAY DOWN.

 

 

 

Cuts The Angle On Strings

Some people will tell you a harder break angle increases sustain - like Gibson.

That's why the headstock is angled back as much as 17 degrees' date=' to get the strings to press harder into the nut.

Think how rare a Gibson headstock break would be if it was straight like a Fender...

 

 

 

Helps With String Breakage At The Bridge

I've NEVER had a string break where it bends over the back of the bridge.

Most common is at the tuning peg, then at the bridge saddle.

Next time you break a string near the bridge, see if I'm right.

 

 

I had an old SG Junior with the wood crushed in the body where the bridge posts were.

The bridge leaned toward the pickups like the Leaning Tower of Pisa - ugly!

 

Do that to the top of your Les Paul and the fix will be expensive, and very obvious.

I run the tailpiece all the way down against the body on ALL my Gibsons, always have.

That's the way Gibson designed, built, set up, and shipped 'em since 1957.

That's good enough for me and all the vintage guys I know.

 

If all this is worth the risk, go for it.

To their credit, the Les Paul is a tough, durable guitar (aside from the headstock) and you will likely be fine.

 

Zakk, as long as your guitar has fresh strings and a proper set up that's all you need on that end of the cord.

It's what you plug the other end of the cord into that's gonna make the rest of the equation come together.

 

You WILL need a tube amp.

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britabe

britabe

Posted
Posted

i just did that today with my string change and it definately adds sustain and it also warmed my tone. i put the tailpiece all the way down and it seemed to change the action of my neck too as the tension is decreased quite a bit actually. you are actually going from somewhere in the neighborhood of 20+ (perhaps as much as 22.5?)degree break angle over the bridge to maybe in the neighborhood of 13ish degrees which is of course much closer to the break angle at the nut

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NeoConMan

NeoConMan

Posted
Posted
Doesn't it make string bending easier? That's another benefit; so' date=' I've read...[/quote']

 

the tension is decreased quite a bit actually.

 

See' date=' this is where the whole thing falls apart for me.

How can bends be easier?

How can tension be decreased? Less tension means lower pitch.

It's simple physics, the Obama White House hasn't changed [i']those laws[/i] yet.

 

Think about it;

I've read that a set of 10's puts around 100 pounds of total tension on the tailpiece and headstock.

No matter what you do with the ends of the strings after they break over the bridge or nut, the tension will be the same.

 

I don't care if you loop the strings in figure 8's and hook 'em to the ceiling.

If your guitar is in standard tuning with the same string gauge, the tension will be unchanged.

What you feel in playing is subjective - nobody has quantified this yet with any sort of hard evidence.

 

If bends are indeed easier, it's because you have slippage thru the bridge and nut. This is the ONLY possibility.

All that extra slippage would be forcing you to push further for the same pitch change.

If this is true (I doubt it) this means bends require less effort but more travel.

 

I keep hearing this, and every time I challenge the notion all I hear in return is crickets chirping.

Somebody, please explain to me how this is possible.

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britabe

britabe

Posted
Posted

most likely it is the slippage yes. creating a slinkier feel but in turn as you pointed out you need more travel to get to pitch in a bend. i understand that you are exactly right and i worded that wrong about "less" tension. it only "feels" like less tension because the slippage is affected. It does change the tone and whether good or bad is left to the handler. I am undecided

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NeoConMan

NeoConMan

Posted
Posted

Yeah, that's ALL I can figure.

Anyhow, I tried it years ago and decided there was nothing in it for me.

 

I even laugh when I think 'more sustain' may come simply from fresh strings.

I dunno.

 

Just trying to make sense of it all.

 

Be cool.

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rocketman

rocketman

Posted
Posted
See' date=' this is where the whole thing falls apart for me.

How can bends be easier?

How can tension be decreased? Less tension means lower pitch.

It's simple physics, the Obama White House hasn't changed [i']those laws[/i] yet.

 

Think about it;

I've read that a set of 10's puts around 100 pounds of total tension on the tailpiece and headstock.

No matter what you do with the ends of the strings after they break over the bridge or nut, the tension will be the same.

 

I don't care if you loop the strings in figure 8's and hook 'em to the ceiling.

If your guitar is in standard tuning with the same string gauge, the tension will be unchanged.

What you feel in playing is subjective - nobody has quantified this yet with any sort of hard evidence.

 

If bends are indeed easier, it's because you have slippage thru the bridge and nut. This is the ONLY possibility.

All that extra slippage would be forcing you to push further for the same pitch change.

If this is true (I doubt it) this means bends require less effort but more travel.

 

I keep hearing this, and every time I challenge the notion all I hear in return is crickets chirping.

Somebody, please explain to me how this is possible.

 

Even though I'm a genuine rocket scientist, I actually did my Ph.D. dissertation in vibration control of flexible structures for space station applications. Although this is not exactly string vibration, it's close enough. What you state above is unequivocally correct. We can definitely put this one to rest. If someone doesn't believe you I'd be happy to have a student whip up a finite element analysis to show the entire tension from one side to the other. But it's as simple as you explain here. Acta est fabula, plaudite!

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:oilpit:

:oilpit:

Posted
Posted
honestly though dude when i brought it to pitch and struck the A chord i instantly went to my tone knob to make sure it was up and it was....it really did warm the tone somehow....iono

i'm not sure i even like it yet..

 

Have you heard of the placebo effect?

It increases the sustain, a little bit, I honestly just do it because AXE does it =D>

It does nothing for tone, string tension or bending, the only thing is the sustain, and that's pretty minor too...

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pippy

pippy

Posted
Posted

I've heard so much on this topic and couln't separate the fact from the fiction. I remember Rocketman's reply last time and, as he's got a bit more knowledge and experience on this matter than most of us on the forum, I'm happy to take his word.

 

As NeoConMan states - if the string is brought up to pitch it must, surely, have the same tension no matter how high the strings are placed.

 

As far as the sustain advantage; I'd have thought that as the strings are less likely to be able to dissipate any vibration if threaded through the STP, rather than over the STP, the first method would be more conducive to better sustain.

 

And, finally, as far as TG's remark about 'Pearly Gates' goes - I've seen her strung both ways.......

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britabe

britabe

Posted
Posted
thank U all guys' date=' so i will just lower my tailpiece to touch the body and run strings normally :- thanks again ;)[/quote']

if you do that it is likely that the strings will rub the back of the bridge (behind the saddles) and that is an undesired affect as it may increase string break potential and possibly bear foward on the bridge in an unwanted manner

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