WTB: 1943 Gibson J-45 Specific Specs.

[Steevo124]

Hi all. I am looking for an all Mahogany, 1943 Banner J-45. Mahogany top, huge three piece maple neck with walnut center strip, NO truss rod. If anyone has one exactly like this and is open to sell. Please email me. Steevo124@yahoo.com. Thanks!

Steve 

Edited May 26, 2022 by Steevo124

[thegreatgumbino]

Have you seen this one?
 

https://www.mandolincafe.com/ads/188034#188034

[zombywoof]

I do not have a clue how many mahogany top J45s were built with the V wedge as opposed to those sporting truss rods (such as that posted above) so have no idea of just how big the haystack you are looking for that needle in is.  You might wander over to the UMGF.  If there is someone who owns a mahogany top  no truss rod Banner which they might be willing to sell or possibly knows of one that is available you will most likely find them hanging around over there.

Edited May 26, 2022 by zombywoof

[jt]

That's a particularized list! I, too, like the truss rod-less Banners.

I'm not sure that Gibson produced a guitar matching your preferences. Peruse our (Willi Henkes did all the heavy lifting) Banner Gibson Registry. You're looking for 2p M top (2-piece mahogany) and 3p mpl/V or 5p mpl/V (3 or 5 piece maple neck with maple V-shaped reinforcement instead of tr, truss rod).

Edited May 27, 2022 by jt

[Steevo124]

On 5/26/2022 at 12:11 AM, thegreatgumbino said:

Have you seen this one?
 

https://www.mandolincafe.com/ads/188034#188034

Yes, I played that one.  Didn't speak to me plus it has the truss rod. 

[Steevo124]

On 5/27/2022 at 6:49 AM, jt said:

That's a particularized list! I, too, like the truss rod-less Banners.

I'm not sure that Gibson produced a guitar matching your preferences. Peruse our (Willi Henkes did all the heavy lifting) Banner Gibson Registry. You're looking for 2p M top (2-piece mahogany) and 3p mpl/V or 5p mpl/V (3 or 5 piece maple neck with maple V-shaped reinforcement instead of tr, truss rod).

Thanks for that.  There was only one guitar in the whole list that matched my specs closely.  There was one that sold not too long ago at Garrett Park Guitars.  It went to Europe but obviously the shop won't give me the buyers info.

[Sgt. Pepper]

57 minutes ago, Steevo124 said:

Thanks for that.  There was only one guitar in the whole list that matched my specs closely.  There was one that sold not too long ago at Garrett Park Guitars.  It went to Europe but obviously the shop won't give me the buyers info.

Good luck in your search. And yes the store that sold the guitar had better not give out someone's personal  info.

Edited May 28, 2022 by Sgt. Pepper

[Sgt. Pepper]

Here is a question, do you think any one in 1943 walked into whatever store sold J-45's, and said, "that new one is nice, but the bracing, tuners, and paint scheme is all wrong. It might have one of those futuristic new fangled truss rods that helps to keep the neck from bowing. Who wants that.  I'm gonna save up for an LG-1 built in 1902. That's when it was done right?"

Edited May 29, 2022 by Sgt. Pepper

[zombywoof]

On 5/29/2022 at 9:40 AM, Sgt. Pepper said:

Here is a question, do you think any one in 1943 walked into whatever store sold J-45's, and said, "that new one is nice, but the bracing, tuners, and paint scheme is all wrong. It might have one of those futuristic new fangled truss rods that helps to keep the neck from bowing. Who wants that.  I'm gonna save up for an LG-1 built in 1902. That's when it was done right?"

You do gotta wonder what those folks in 1943 would have thought about how we buy guitars today.   Unless you ordered out of a Sears or some other mail order catalog pretty much you had to hoof it down to some shop.  Might be a hardware store but a shop it be.  While it was 20 some odd years down the road from 1943, I recall gazing in wonder at those guitars hanging on the wall of the local Western Auto store.  It was just downright magical. 

The only reason though I can think of for conjuring up a guitar with that specific a laundry list of features would be I was wanting to replace an instrument I once owned.  Oher than that I would have had to have experienced  Banners in all their various configurations to single out one particular combination of features as the best there ever was or ever will be.  

[Dave F]

1 hour ago, zombywoof said:

.....  Unless you ordered out of a Sears or some other mail order catalog pretty much you had to hoof it down to some shop.  Might be a hardware store but a shop it be.  While it was 20 some odd years down the road from 1943, I recall gazing in wonder at those guitars hanging on the wall of the local Western Auto store.  It was just downright magical. ......

First guitar. I went to the Top Value Stamp redemption store with my Mom to get it. Kroger's used to give reward stamps when buying groceries. You would save them up and then redeem them for various items. I had shown interest in guitars having made a cigar box style one and had a pawn shop one that my older brothers busted up. I think I only had it for a day or two. This Kay served me well. I had a fret job done on it and redid the fret markers.

Then my first electric guitar was a Kingston Swinger, a knock off Teisco version of the Fender Swinger. I picked it out at our local Checker's store that was across the street from Western Auto. I really butchered up the original one but found this identical one a few years ago.

 

 

[zombywoof]

1 hour ago, Dave F said:

First guitar. I went to the Top Value Stamp redemption store with my Mom to get it. Kroger's used to give reward stamps when buying groceries. You would save them up and then redeem them for various items. I had shown interest in guitars having made a cigar box style one and had a pawn shop one that my older brothers busted up. I think I only had it for a day or two. This Kay served me well. I had a fret job done on it and redid the fret markers.

Then my first electric guitar was a Kingston Swinger, a knock off Teisco version of the Fender Swinger. I picked it out at our local Checker's store that was across the street from Western Auto. I really butchered up the original one but found this identical one a few years ago.

 

 

I had forgotten about S&H Green Stamps and the like.  Mom used to bring them home from the Grand Union or A&P and I would diligently paste them into those little books.  I recall those K1160s with the stencil music note pickguard were available with a burst and black finish.  

[jt]

9 hours ago, zombywoof said:

The only reason though I can think of for conjuring up a guitar with that specific a laundry list of features would be I was wanting to replace an instrument I once owned.  Oher than that I would have had to have experienced  Banners in all their various configurations to single out one particular combination of features as the best there ever was or ever will be.  

Yes. This aggregation of features would not be my preference.

But every Banner Gibson is unique. The grail in the Martin vintage guitar community is the one-of-a-kind a guitar. Nearly all vintage Gibson vintage guitars are one-of-a-kind. The Gibson grail(s) would be two-of-a-kind: two guitars with the same specs. 🙂

As most here know, I've played dozens of WWII-era Banner Gibsons. No two have sounded remotely alike.

[Sgt. Pepper]

16 minutes ago, jt said:

Yes. This aggregation of features would not be my preference.

But every Banner Gibson is unique. The grail in the Martin vintage guitar community is the one-of-a-kind a guitar. Nearly all vintage Gibson vintage guitars are one-of-a-kind. The Gibson grail(s) would be two-of-a-kind: two guitars with the same specs. 🙂

As most here know, I've played dozens of WWII-era Banner Gibsons. No two have sounded remotely alike.

I think the whole Holy Grail thing is a farce. How do I know a Martin D-28 made with Braz RW is the be all do all end all?  Have I heard them? Sure on recordings. I'm never gonna have the cash for a 1937 Martin D-28, or a '57 - '60 Gibson LP, or a Pre- CBS Fender Strat ect ect. Some of you guys may have owned, and touched, and played these beasts. Nowadays the vintage, and even recent used market is, so stupidly priced out of reach that usually only the uber rich can afford them. I've seen one '59 LP in Gruhn's behind glass and one '60 LP at Carter's Vintage. The '59, I think $95,000 (it was a little beat up), and the '60, was $125,000. 

Edited May 31, 2022 by Sgt. Pepper

[jt]

1 minute ago, Sgt. Pepper said:

I think the whole Holy Grail thing is a farce. How do I know a Martin D-28 made with Braz RW is the be all do all end all?  Have I heard them? Sure on recordings. I'm never gonna have the cash for a 1937 Martin D-28, or a 57 - 60 Gibson LP, or a Pre- CBS Fender Strat ect ect. Some of you guys may have owned, and touched, and played these beasts, but nowadays the vintage and even recent used market is so stupidly priced out of reach of any one that is not uber rich. I've seen one '59 LP in Gruhn's behind glass and one '60 LP at Carter's Vintage. The '59 as I think $95,000 and the '60 was $125,000. 

If you find a '59 Les Paul for $95,000, buy as many as you can. Current value is 4-5 times that number.

Of course the "Holy Grail thing" is a farce. But, well, please do your best to play a late 1930s D-38. No acoustic guitar has a more impressive bass response. Now, whether that bass serves your music (it doesn't serve what I see to do) is a different question.

I truly understand the reluctance to embrace vintage guitars. But, well, the worst I've done, economically, is to sell a vintage Gibson for 5 times what I paid for it.

[fortyearspickn]

Last night wife's turn with the remote - put on Antique Road Show.  They had a Martin D-28 from the early 40s.   Woman said her brother bought it in early 70s as a college student in a pawn shop for $300.   Appraiser, like all of them, was an expert.  Tuners had been replaced, otherwise in great condition Brazilian RW b&s.   He told her it was worth  around $45K - she was blown away.  The show was filmed around 20 years ago.  Updated the appraisal value. I think it was $90K.   BUT - my point -   He said people needed to hear it, so they could understand the beauty was in the tone, not the physical.   WOW !  he strummed a "C" chord.   We have decent speakers on our year old flat screen -  but I'm sure they didn't do that Martin justice.    I wouldn't hesitate to spend the money -   but I am unworthy of such a fine instrument.  My take away -   vintage guitars are worth the money and the search. If you have the time and the cash.    Now, I'm a little less enamored with my 3 current era Gibson acoustics.   

[Sgt. Pepper]

2 hours ago, jt said:

If you find a '59 Les Paul for $95,000, buy as many as you can. Current value is 4-5 times that number.

Of course the "Holy Grail thing" is a farce. But, well, please do your best to play a late 1930s D-38. No acoustic guitar has a more impressive bass response. Now, whether that bass serves your music (it doesn't serve what I see to do) is a different question.

I truly understand the reluctance to embrace vintage guitars. But, well, the worst I've done, economically, is to sell a vintage Gibson for 5 times what I paid for it.

You buy as many as you can. I should have as I had that much just sitting around as pocket change. Let me see what could I do with 95k, pay off my house, but I would still need another 35k to fully pay it off. Or that would make about 80 mortgage payments, or have money for food, bills ect.

Oh yeah 30’s Martins are in most stores I go to, so I’ll just check one out tomorrow at Guitar Center.

Edited June 1, 2022 by Sgt. Pepper

[Sgt. Pepper]

1 hour ago, fortyearspickn said:

Last night wife's turn with the remote - put on Antique Road Show.  They had a Martin D-28 from the early 40s.   Woman said her brother bought it in early 70s as a college student in a pawn shop for $300.   Appraiser, like all of them, was an expert.  Tuners had been replaced, otherwise in great condition Brazilian RW b&s.   He told her it was worth  around $45K - she was blown away.  The show was filmed around 20 years ago.  Updated the appraisal value. I think it was $90K.   BUT - my point -   He said people needed to hear it, so they could understand the beauty was in the tone, not the physical.   WOW !  he strummed a "C" chord.   We have decent speakers on our year old flat screen -  but I'm sure they didn't do that Martin justice.    I wouldn't hesitate to spend the money -   but I am unworthy of such a fine instrument.  My take away -   vintage guitars are worth the money and the search. If you have the time and the cash.    Now, I'm a little less enamored with my 3 current era Gibson acoustics.   

I have whatever time left I have. If I had the cash I would be on my yacht with a 20 year old glass of killer Scotch, and I’d be strumming my 80 year old Martin, but I’m not, cause I’m not Bill Gates or Elon Musk.

I’m just a retired Coast Guardsmen, and now I do what is called living on a budget, which doesn’t include  vintage guitars.

Edited June 1, 2022 by Sgt. Pepper

[zombywoof]

11 hours ago, Sgt. Pepper said:

I have whatever time left I have. If I had the cash I would be on my yacht with a 20 year old glass of killer Scotch, and I’d be strumming my 80 year old Martin, but I’m not, cause I’m not Bill Gates or Elon Musk.

I’m just a retired Coast Guardsmen, and now I do what is called living on a budget, which doesn’t include  vintage guitars.

Dwelling on what this or that guitar cost in this or that time gets us nowhere.  If I had kept all of the guitars and cars I bought used in the 1970s yeah, I would be writing this from my yacht cruising the Caribbean.  In the early 1970s that 1940s D28 was just a "used " guitar and cost about the same as a brand spanking new D18.  Plus, you would also have to weigh it all against what the typical income was back in the day.

[Sgt. Pepper]

42 minutes ago, zombywoof said:

Dwelling on what this or that guitar cost in this or that time gets us nowhere.  If I had kept all of the guitars and cars I bought used in the 1970s yeah, I would be writing this from my yacht cruising the Caribbean.  In the early 1970s that 1940s D28 was just a "used " guitar and cost about the same as a brand spanking new D18.  Plus, you would also have to weigh it all against what the typical income was back in the day.

Not really dwelling on it, just stating I don’t have the $ for vintage guitars.

[zombywoof]

28 minutes ago, Sgt. Pepper said:

Not really dwelling on it, just stating I don’t have the $ for vintage guitars.

Sure you do.  They are just not the kinds of "vintage" guitars more than a few would consider collectible.   I was recently asked by a younger guy what kind of a "vintage" guitar I would jump on if I had less than $1K to spend.  Without pause a Harmony Sovereign H1260 says I.  

I do fully realize though that I could not afford some the guitars I own if I had to buy them today.  Then again, I never worried much about "collectibility" in terms of originality and condition which had the advantage of keeping price tags down.  But as I believe I have said, at this point in my life spending any kind of serious money on a guitar new or old just seems plain silly.  And I have been an oak recently walking away from a 1947 Gibson-made National 1155 (think J45 without a truss rod) and a 1932 National Duolian which I had actually once owned so knew well.

[Sgt. Pepper]

18 minutes ago, zombywoof said:

Sure you do.  They are just not the kinds of "vintage" guitars more than a few would consider collectible.   I was recently asked by a younger guy what kind of a "vintage" guitar I would jump on if I had less than $1K to spend.  Without pause a Harmony Sovereign H1260 says I.  

I do fully realize though that I could not afford some the guitars I own if I had to buy them today.  Then again, I never worried much about "collectibility" in terms of originality and condition which had the advantage of keeping price tags down.  But as I believe I have said, at this point in my life spending any kind of serious money on a guitar new or old just seems plain silly.  And I have been an oak recently walking away from a 1947 Gibson-made National 1155 (think J45 without a truss rod) and a 1932 National Duolian which I had actually once owned so knew well.

When I was a kid (16 or so) I wanted a '59 LP cause Jimmy Page played one. Then I realized how much they really cost, and the dream was over. My oldest current guitar is a 2001(it sat in a store for years as a new guitar, and was never sold until I bought it a few years back), and the newest are 2020's.

I had a '57 ES-225TD that was beat up and not that expensive, I think I paid $800 or so for it. Plus they are not that sought after, many now it might be cause its VINTAGE.  POS would not stay in tune, howled like a banshee when close to an amp, and buzzed like a Fender Strat. The one nice thing I will say about it was it was light as a feather. I sold it and never gave rip about again about owing something 50+ years old ever again. 

The Guild JF-30 I used to have was from the '87. I traded a LP Trad Pro II for it. It was a beast of a guitar. All Maple and heavy as hell. Didn't dig the maple tone and away it went.

That's my endeavor in the vintage gear market. So something form '57, '87 and '01. Not sure if the last two are considered vintage or maybe they are by todays standards.

 

Edited June 1, 2022 by Sgt. Pepper

[dhanners623]

On 5/26/2022 at 3:00 AM, Steevo124 said:

Hi all. I am looking for an all Mahogany, 1943 Banner J-45. Mahogany top, huge three piece maple neck with walnut center strip, NO truss rod. If anyone has one exactly like this and is open to sell. Please email me. Steevo124@yahoo.com. Thanks!

Steve 

I’m curious — Why that particular year and those particular specs? There are lots of great guitars out there just looking for good homes….

[Raul Rehlmann]

6 hours ago, Sgt. Pepper said:

When I was a kid (16 or so) I wanted a '59 LP cause Jimmy Page played one. Then I realized how much they really cost, and the dream was over. My oldest current guitar is a 2001(it sat in a store for years as a new guitar, and was never sold until I bought it a few years back), and the newest are 2020's.

I had a '57 ES-225TD that was beat up and not that expensive, I think I paid $800 or so for it. Plus they are not that sought after, many now it might be cause its VINTAGE.  POS would not stay in tune, howled like a banshee when close to an amp, and buzzed like a Fender Strat. The one nice thing I will say about it was it was light as a feather. I sold it and never gave rip about again about owing something 50+ years old ever again. 

The Guild JF-30 I used to have was from the '87. I traded a LP Trad Pro II for it. It was a beast of a guitar. All Maple and heavy as hell. Didn't dig the maple tone and away it went.

That's my endeavor in the vintage gear market. So something form '57, '87 and '01. Not sure if the last two are considered vintage or maybe they are by todays standards.

 

Maybe if you had all of the money you put into that awesome vinyl collection of pre-recorded music you could make some of your own music on some vintage guitar whose attributes could only be appreciated by acoustic cork sniffers who don't want to admit you can have just as much fun on a cheap re-issue.

Edited June 1, 2022 by Raul Rehlmann
Reason: White Guilt?

[jt]

21 hours ago, Sgt. Pepper said:

You buy as many as you can. I should have as I had that much just sitting around as pocket change.

Sorry to offend.

I meant simply to offer a financial recommendation: if offered a thing at 1/4 its market value, maybe buy it.

But, well, I don't do this. As you and other members of this forum might know, folks in the vintage guitar community know me. I often receive pleas to purchase a vintage Gibson. My response is always the same. If I'm not interested, I decline. If I'm interested, I inform the potential seller that I will purchase the guitar only at market value. I ask the seller to have the guitar appraised by either Gruhn's or Carters' shops. I'll either pay that price or I won't purchase the guitar. I typically know more than the seller in these situations and do not want to take advantage of a naive seller. The seller, obviously, can sell the guitar for less than the appraised price, but not to me.

Again, I apologize.

[Sgt. Pepper]

1 hour ago, jt said:

Sorry to offend.

I meant simply to offer a financial recommendation: if offered a thing at 1/4 its market value, maybe buy it.

But, well, I don't do this. As you and other members of this forum might know, folks in the vintage guitar community know me. I often receive pleas to purchase a vintage Gibson. My response is always the same. If I'm not interested, I decline. If I'm interested, I inform the potential seller that I will purchase the guitar only at market value. I ask the seller to have the guitar appraised by either Gruhn's or Carters' shops. I'll either pay that price or I won't purchase the guitar. I typically know more than the seller in these situations and do not want to take advantage of a naive seller. The seller, obviously, can sell the guitar for less than the appraised price, but not to me.

Again, I apologize.

It was a Gruhn's in Nashville, in 2017. I think they know what those go for. So if it was 95k there was a reason it was that price.

Edited June 2, 2022 by Sgt. Pepper