1980 Martin D-18 question - I trust you guys the most!

[meanstreak]

I know this is a Gibson forum but I've got a chance to pick up a 1979 or possibly a 1980 Martin D-18 and hope one of you guys can help.  Are those years known as good/bad/indifferent for the D-18?  I know next to nothing about Martin but this is an under-the-bed kept guitar that's supposed to be in terrific shape and the price is super cheap.

[Larsongs]

If it’s in great condition, plays & sounds great & is priced right it would be a good consideration.. 

I own a 1975 Martin D-35 & it’s a fantastic Instrument.. Built after the Brazilian Rosewood embargo.. The Indian Rosewood is beautiful & sounds great!

The D-18 having Mahogany Back & Sides wasn’t affected by that embargo so that won’t hold you back..

I do want to add a D-18 to my Acoustic Guitar family at some point..

Good luck!

[ksdaddy]

Martin did not start using adjustable truss rods until the mid 1980s so if the neck relief isn’t acceptable, it’s not a simple twist of a wrench. And also look for a correct neck set (angle). Martins often need neck resets at some point. 

[zombywoof]

I am not a Martin guy so have far less experience with them then others here. Martins from the period yours was built though still sported the square tube truss rod which I gather is not as stiff as it could be and the oversized rosewood bridge plate.  Surprise, surprise - depending on who you ask the bridge plate in particular should be replaced or they are no problem at all.   

Edited May 1, 2023 by zombywoof

[Murph]

9 minutes ago, Little Feat said:

 I also heard one of the guys working there thought he know better and put the bridges where he though they should go. 

There's always one.

[Larsongs]

Like any Guitar made by any manufacturer there are exceptions to the rule.. There is always the possibility of a bad Guitar in any run by any manufacturer. 

Martin Guitars overall are second to none.. If you’re not sure what a good Guitar should be take a trusted friend with you.. 

For sure if a Truss Rod is important to you make sure it has one.. I have had to have a neck reset on my 75 D-35.. But, I bought mine new & it was covered by the lifetime warranty… It probably shouldn’t have been as I was a drunken, traveling Bar Band guy & gave little thought about how to care for a Guitar or much of anything else…. It’s amazing how well that Guitar has stood the test of time given the hell I put it through….

[RBSinTo]

I have a 1974 Martin D-28, which I purchased used, in 1979, and have been very happy with it.

Martins made in the 1970's are considered by some to be be generally inferior in sound and build quality to those the company produced before or since.

However, mine has a wonderful sound, and in the 44 years  I have owned it, has only required a pickguard replacement, and a new bridge plate, as well as set-ups, but has never needed bindings re-glued or replaced, and  does not need a neck re-set. Not bad for a 49 year-old guitar.

However, if you have any concerns about the D-18's physical condition (aside from your opinion on it's sound) you should ask the seller if you can have it looked at by a Luthier before making an offer.

RBSinTo

 

[kidblast]

Martins of that age and neck resets seem to go with.  know what you're getting before you plop down and greenies.

[meanstreak]

1 minute ago, kidblast said:

Martins of that age and neck resets seem to go with.  know what you're getting before you plop down and greenies.

Yes!  I have another guy with a 2006 model for sale at the same price and a similar condition.  Thinking I might be better off with the 06!

[zombywoof]

3 hours ago, Little Feat said:

I always heard 70's Martins are hit and miss. They had issues where the bridge was placed on some on the 70's guitars. I heard some were off as much as a 1/4 inch or so. I heard a bunch of different reasons why. One was they had precut dowels that where the scale length of the guitar they were building. I heard one of the dowels was not cut to the proper scale length and every guitar made with that dowel was off. I also heard one on the guys working there thought he know better and put the bridges where he though they should go. 

 

What I have always heard is that while misplaced bridges and square tube truss rod slippage were issues, Martins not suffering from those problems are far more common that those with them.  And well before 1980, Martin had resolved the bridge issues.  Truss rod issues would have to wait another couple of years.  Dan Erlewine has apparently come with a easy fix for the truss rods which is to insert a carbon fiber rod in the existing rod.  Problem is you have to remove the neck to have it done.

The point is while Martins built between the late-1960s though early-1980s have a less than stellar reputation, it would not deter me from buying one.   I would just be careful and give the guitar a good going over.  While these things were covered under warranty that would only have been for the original owner.  The only Martin that I know of built during the 1970s which came with a transferrable warranty was the Bicentennial D76.

Edited May 1, 2023 by zombywoof

[PrairieSchooner]

I bought one of the early HD-28's when they came out; mine's a '78.  The intonation was slightly off but a compensated saddle took care of that.  Great guitar.

[Tim Tim]

Folks here are right that you need to make sure the neck angle is good (or that it's priced to pay for a neck reset).  As long as you're comfortable getting those measurements, that's easy to check. 

Make sure the frets are in good shape.  If it needs a refret, then relief (truss rod issue) is a non issue since relief on those guitars is set by compression (re)fretting. 

If it doesn't need a refret, make sure relief is where you want it.  

Also, I'd double check the serial number to get the exact build year.  70s Martins often have intonation problems due to mis-placement of the bridge.  That was corrected in 1980.  If it's a '79, you might want to measure the nut-to-saddle scale length to make sure it's right on the money.  

Get a look inside just to check for history of repairs or loose braces etc.  

If the price is right, and it doesn't need major work (or is priced for the repairs), these are wonderful guitars.  These 70s/early 80s guitars have the very best necks out there IMO.  They have the pre-CNC accurate body shapes and 40 year old wood. 

Post over on the Unofficial Martin Guitar Forum too.  Lots of very knowledgable luthiers and vintage nuts over there.  

Good luck!

Edited May 1, 2023 by Tim Tim

[tpbiii]

In general, 1970-1982 are considered the dark hole.  There are exceptions, but few,  The misplaced bridges (1/4 of the guitars) were from the early 70s.  The thing that began a focused comeback on one model -- the HD28 -- was introduced in 1976.  They got serious about improving quality in 1983, and things began to get better.  Mike Longworth was very influential with recapturing the quality of the long past.

 

The market generally devalues 1970-1982 -- even the occasional good one.  So don't pay too much.

 

I have 50 vintage Martins and 50 vintage Gibsons.  My newest Martin in 1969 -- my newest Gibson is 1965.

Best,

-Tom

[Larsongs]

On 5/1/2023 at 7:27 AM, RBSinTo said:

I have a 1974 Martin D-28, which I purchased used, in 1979, and have been very happy with it.

Martins made in the 1970's are considered by some to be be generally inferior in sound and build quality to those the company produced before or since.

However, mine has a wonderful sound, and in the 44 years  I have owned it, has only required a pickguard replacement, and a new bridge plate, as well as set-ups, but has never needed bindings re-glued or replaced, and  does not need a neck re-set. Not bad for a 49 year-old guitar.

However, if you have any concerns about the D-18's physical condition (aside from your opinion on it's sound) you should ask the seller if you can have it looked at by a Luthier before making an offer.

RBSinTo

 

A lot of that had to do with the mythical Brazilian Rosewood unavailable due to the thinning of the Tropical Rain forests.. New East Indian Rosewood would be the new substitute Martin would employ… The Indian Rosewood has turned to be an outstanding choice.. The Sound of ‘70’s D-28’s, D-35’s & progressing up their Model line is outstanding… If own one, you know..

[tpbiii]

1 hour ago, Larsongs said:

A lot of that had to do with the mythical Brazilian Rosewood unavailable due to the thinning of the Tropical Rain forests.. New East Indian Rosewood would be the new substitute Martin would employ… The Indian Rosewood has turned to be an outstanding choice.. The Sound of ‘70’s D-28’s, D-35’s & progressing up their Model line is outstanding… If own one, you know..

Well this was an average effect.  I auditioned 100s  (mostly 1980-2002), and I bought a couple (76 HD-28 and 72 D-35S).  At the same time, I was auditioning  100s of older Martin too, so the effect was clear.

It mostly had to do with power.  The prewar golden era Martins (1934-1944) were legendary for their power, and they drove the creation of old and new power acoustic genres -- most noticeably bluegrass.  The Martin D-28 changed the world at that time -- and they were all Brazilian rosewood.  As wood ages, the tone improved and many people believed it was the Brazilian -- but there a strong argument to be made that it was the age and not the rosewood species. that was important.  Gibson also made power RW guitars in the golden era -- they were rarer, but it is now pretty much accepted the were more or less the equal of the old D-28.  And they were all Indian rosewood!

I have three old D-28s (35, 39, 44) and four old RW Gibsons.  (36 AJ, 35 RSRG, 40 RW J-55,  43 RW SJ) and they all fill the RW power role IMHO equally well.

There are subtle differences between BRW and EIRW tonally, but they are pretty slight IME.

I play both bluegrass and folk revival music (I am old) -- I love them both, but they are very different in their rural and urban homes.  For the power traditional genres, power is very important -- the guitar is not very powerful  compared to banjos, mandolins, and fiddles)..  The folk revival was a much milder genre, and used milder, quieter styles.  That led Martin starting around 1970 to build stronger, more robust guitars.  They introduced the large RW bridge plate in late 1969 -- a major power killer -- an built the guitars much stronger to reduce warranty work.  If you are feeding the mild "folk" genre. it did not make much difference but to the traditional rural genres, that was poison.  When the folk revival went electric, all that was left was Martins historical rural genre market and that was not being well served by the 1970 guitars -- thus the crash.

In a very real sense, 1970s Martins were more-or-less overbuilt copies of historical models, and it was not very hard to modify them to be closer to older specs.  This included replacing the large bridge plate and scalloping the braces.  If done well, these made excellent power guitars, but it had to be done carefully. 

If power is not important to you, then this is not important to you.  Since I swing both ways, there are some places where power Martins are overkill.

This is all well known in the market, and if you buy and/or sell guitars what is generally what you have to deal with.  That does not mean you agree with the market -- but that is most often what you must deal with when you trade.

 

Best,

-Tom

Edited May 2, 2023 by tpbiii

[Larsongs]

Tom, Well said… You have some beautiful Guitars!

My brother & I have been playing together all our lives.. In the late ‘60’s my brother had a mid ‘60’s Brazilian Rosewood D-28.. An absolutely wonderful Guitar! I didn’t get my Martin til 1975.. I chose a new D-35 as it was a magic Guitar.. Also, to keep up with my brothers D-28.. His D-28 was powerful.. About as powerful as my D-35… 

My 2000 Bozeman Masterbilt Solid Top Gibson J-160E is comparable in power & volume to my D-35.. 

[Tim Tim]

23 hours ago, tpbiii said:

In general, 1970-1982 are considered the dark hole.  There are exceptions, but few,  The misplaced bridges (1/4 of the guitars) were from the early 70s.  The thing that began a focused comeback on one model -- the HD28 -- was introduced in 1976.  They got serious about improving quality in 1983, and things began to get better.  Mike Longworth was very influential with recapturing the quality of the long past.

 

The market generally devalues 1970-1982 -- even the occasional good one.  So don't pay too much.

 

I have 50 vintage Martins and 50 vintage Gibsons.  My newest Martin in 1969 -- my newest Gibson is 1965.

Best,

-Tom

What happened in 1982?  The mid 80s brought over finish pickguards, adjustable truss rods, and low profile necks.  As far as I can tell, the bridge misplacement intonation issue was fixed in 1980.   They didn’t get small maple bridge plates until the late 80s.  It depends what folks consider improvement, but to me, if you want a 70s martin with the intonation issue fixed, get one from the early 80s.  Better yet, have the bridgeplate pulled and replaced.  Otherwise, you’re looking at a 90s model with a small plate and skinny neck.  

[tpbiii]

It was Chris Martin and a change of direction.  Not fixed, but a serious beginning that is still in progress.

 

[Larsongs]

I’m not buying into most of that line of thinking.. Re; Martin’s Black hole comment…

I recently purchased a new 2023 Martin HD-28E with L.R Baggs Electronics.. It was a good Guitar, but, IMO, it isn’t the equivalent In all respects compared to my 1975 Martin D-35.. I tried really really hard to think it was the best but ultimately it wasn’t & returned it..…

[Tim Tim]

On 5/4/2023 at 5:35 PM, Larsongs said:

I’m not buying into most of that line of thinking.. Re; Martin’s Black hole comment…

I recently purchased a new 2023 Martin HD-28E with L.R Baggs Electronics.. It was a good Guitar, but, IMO, it isn’t the equivalent In all respects compared to my 1975 Martin D-35.. I tried really really hard to think it was the best but ultimately it wasn’t & returned it..…

He’s talking about averages.  There are some good examples that escaped the 70s, but there are more issues than average vs the 60s and 80s.  The bridge placement intonation issue and huge bridgeplates are the two major issues discussed from that period.  Both are fixable, but an 80s guitar, at least, will have the bridge in the right place.  FWIW The HD-28 has always had the small maple bridge plate since its release in ‘76.  That’s an exception to the rule until Martin wised up on that in ‘88.  The necks on those 70s martins are awesome.

Edited May 7, 2023 by Tim Tim

[Larsongs]

On 5/7/2023 at 4:50 PM, Tim Tim said:

He’s talking about averages.  There are some good examples that escaped the 70s, but there are more issues than average vs the 60s and 80s.  The bridge placement intonation issue and huge bridgeplates are the two major issues discussed from that period.  Both are fixable, but an 80s guitar, at least, will have the bridge in the right place.  FWIW The HD-28 has always had the small maple bridge plate since its release in ‘76.  That’s an exception to the rule until Martin wised up on that in ‘88.  The necks on those 70s martins are awesome.

I can agree with that.. I used to work in Music Stores in my early 20’s.. Re; Acoustic Guitars, they are for the most part Hand built. No two are exactly the same. No two sound exactly the same.. No two have exactly the same build quality.. They may be close but you can go play 3-4 of any Acoustic Guitar & there will be differences in Sound & appearance.. Regarding Companies who have been around a long time, “Overall” in my humble experience, Martin, Gibson & Guild are consistently the best Acoustic Guitars on the Planet.. Although, not all of them weren’t perfect..

But, you do have to go out, look at them & play them. Now, with the Internet, researching everything about them is pretty easy.. With Reverb.com, EBay & GBase you can get a good idea what to pay for them too..

Edited May 9, 2023 by Larsongs