G Man Posted May 26, 2023 Share Posted May 26, 2023 . . . that the sides on my '53 J50 are laminate? I ask because there is a bubble in the wood down near the end pin that when I press it I can feel it hitting what feels like another layer of wood. Doesn't concern me either way, just wondering if this is a documented thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Pepper Posted May 26, 2023 Share Posted May 26, 2023 (edited) 58 minutes ago, G Man said: . . . that the sides on my '53 J50 are laminate? I ask because there is a bubble in the wood down near the end pin that when I press it I can feel it hitting what feels like another layer of wood. Doesn't concern me either way, just wondering if this is a documented thing. Isn't there a block of wood by the end pin which is where the hole for the end pin is and adds support? The sides come over it and is glued to it. Maybe its delaminating. Edited May 26, 2023 by Sgt. Pepper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissouriPicker Posted May 26, 2023 Share Posted May 26, 2023 Maybe the particle board is coming apart……Just joking. I have no idea…..But, if it’s a sweet guitar, it likely wouldn’t bother me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murph Posted May 26, 2023 Share Posted May 26, 2023 The bubble is a hernia. Just ignore it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted May 26, 2023 Share Posted May 26, 2023 (edited) Gibson, of course, had been building guitars with a laminate back and rim since the 1930s. But at least prior to the 1960s I have never even heard of anything but maple laminate being used. The early-1950s though was transition period. Between 1951 and 1953 the builds got heavier while design aspects such as the side supports and tapered headstocks disappeared. I have read or heard though they may have also started experimenting with laminate sides on the J45/50. Whether this was based on surviving examples or pure speculation who knows. Book learning has never been the best way to go about getting a handle on Kalamazoo-built Gibsons. Anway, maybe your guitar is the proof that Gibson did turn out J45s with a laminate rim. Or maybe not. Edited May 26, 2023 by zombywoof Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidblast Posted May 26, 2023 Share Posted May 26, 2023 A tool like this should answer any questions 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G Man Posted May 27, 2023 Author Share Posted May 27, 2023 The guitar sounds phenomenal, so its construction doesn't bother me in the least. The bubble is too far away from the end block to have that be the resistance I'm feeling. I'll try to capture it in pics next week, out of town for the weekend right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortyearspickn Posted May 27, 2023 Share Posted May 27, 2023 Yeah. That might help us tell is if's laminate or veneer. Though, it could be both.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-minor7 Posted May 28, 2023 Share Posted May 28, 2023 9 hours ago, G Man said: The guitar sounds phenomenal, so its construction doesn't bother me in the least. The bubble is too far away from the end block to have that be the resistance I'm feeling. I'll try to capture it in pics next week, out of town for the weekend right now. Look forward to zoom in on this issue 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G Man Posted May 30, 2023 Author Share Posted May 30, 2023 Tried to grab a picture of the bubble this morning, but its really hard to capture, surprise surprise. Anyway, here's my first attempt, I'll try to get a better shot after work today. You can kinda make out the "bubble" in the bent light/shadow in the wood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egoidealmusic Posted May 31, 2023 Share Posted May 31, 2023 Maybe it's just my computer but I can't see any picture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Pepper Posted May 31, 2023 Share Posted May 31, 2023 1 hour ago, egoidealmusic said: Maybe it's just my computer but I can't see any picture. Same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docr Posted May 31, 2023 Share Posted May 31, 2023 The photos are visible on my computer. The bubble can be seen - according to my interpretation, you can clearly see the warping of the reflection of the frame of the picture hanging on the wall. But how can a solid frame form such a bump? It's not easy to explain even with a frame made of plywood, since the bubble would have to be very thin, being made of only one or a few layers of wood or veneer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G Man Posted May 31, 2023 Author Share Posted May 31, 2023 As mentioned earlier, when I gently push on that bump, I can feel it bottom out against the next layers of wood, there is resistance. I'm going with a laminate side, otherwise I shouldn't feel any resistance when pushing on the bubble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted May 31, 2023 Share Posted May 31, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, docr said: The photos are visible on my computer. The bubble can be seen - according to my interpretation, you can clearly see the warping of the reflection of the frame of the picture hanging on the wall. But how can a solid frame form such a bump? It's not easy to explain even with a frame made of plywood, since the bubble would have to be very thin, being made of only one or a few layers of wood or veneer. Gibson did not build with "plywoood" meaning some cheap filler wood like poplar sandwiched in between two layers of a nice veneer. They made their own laminate which was even slices of the same wood glued together. Personally, I have never got why more builders do not go with a laminate rim which increases the natural stiffness the curves give the sides. Edited May 31, 2023 by zombywoof Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G Man Posted May 31, 2023 Author Share Posted May 31, 2023 And being a 53, the first year without the side support straps, (or whatever they are called,) it would make sense if they experimented with laminated sides for strength. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted May 31, 2023 Share Posted May 31, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, G Man said: And being a 53, the first year without the side support straps, (or whatever they are called,) it would make sense if they experimented with laminated sides for strength. My understanding is those fabric and wood side supports were used to help prevent the rim from splitting under the pressure of having the top and back attached. The only two models I can think of which continued to sport that feature after 1953 were the J200 and CF100. Specs though did not change at the stroke of midnight of any given year. My take on it is these features disappeared gradually between 1951 and 1953. But I have never seen them on a guitar built from 1953 on. Does not mean that this or that feature could not still be found. Just that I have never seen them. With Kalamazoo-made Gibsons it is best to never to say never. Edited May 31, 2023 by zombywoof Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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