What came first, the lyrics or the melody?

[Sheepdog1969]

I, by no means, am a prolific or talented song writer, but I have written a handful of original songs. Personally, I have always started with a phrase or a catchy line that led to a song's lyrics. Admittedly, as each line of the song is conjured and added, I begin to "hear" more and more of the instrumental parts of the piece, (and I occasionally will hum/sing these parts into a recorder), but the lyrics are what I write first.  I guess my songs are lyric driven, and the instrumental melodies flow from those lyrics, (and their emotional impact on me.). 

I do know that many song writers do the opposite, and draw their lyrics from the instrumental melodies they create. How many songs have begun as the playful "fidgeting" of a musician playing their instrument  between songs at practice, or while watching TV, etc.? A great melodic line has been the inspiration for volumes of lyrics and compositions.

How do you write your music?  What comes first for you, the lyrics or the melodies? Does the type of song you write determine this order? Does collaborative song writing effect this order vs. solo writing? Can't wait to hear how each of you create music.

[rct]

The song context and content are first for me.  What is this about and who do I hear doing it best.  After that is title of the song.  By that time it is pretty much fully formed and I know what I want for the most part.   I program the drums and put them down.  Next is some combination back and forth of getting the rhythm guitar and bass down.  Some keys after that.  Vocs after that.  Guitar solos, ins, outs, stuff like that.  Finally,  any more keyboards I want drizzled on it.  Done.

I'm not at all selling recordings, and I never will that I can see.  It is the song I am selling, buyer can do what they want with it.

rct

[merciful-evans]

I used to begin with music and then wonder what lyrics to write. That never worked well.

Now I keep a book of words. I got the basic idea from an author. I don’t write that many songs. But when I do, this is how I do it.

I sit down and write. It doesn’t matter what is written, it can be (and usually is) nonsense. The important thing is to keep writing and don’t stop. Eventually something worthwhile will surface. It might not be great, it might not even be intelligible. It might just sound nice. But it could even be something I struggled to say before, but now there it is expressed succinctly.

The same thing happens if you deliberately play wrong notes in odd phrasings (music without structure). Eventually your subconscious rebels and something worthwhile emerges.

Whether its words or music, what emerges is always a surprise, because it’s a subliminal process.

Of course I cant create an entire song like that. I only work this way with words / lyrics. These are the lyrics that make it into my book of words.

 When I have a musical idea sufficiently fleshed out (there’s always 2 or 3 ideas at any time), that’s when I reach for my book of words. I will look for something that connects to the music. It may be of a similar ‘mood’. Sometimes the opposite mood will work too. Sometimes I cant find anything that suits.

If I do find the words I need, I may need to rephrase them to fit the music. Its not too hard. The important thing is that it sings well. This is the most important bit. A well expressed line wont necessarily sing well. Sometimes it needs to be dumbed down to work. The words only have to fetch up an emotional response to be effective. I find they work best if they are simple.

[Larsongs]

I’ve written songs all kinds of ways.. Sometimes Lyrics come first then the music.. Sometimes music comes first & then the lyrics..  Even some that flow though me out of nowhere that write themselves…

But, after many years of writing I like to start with the Title.. My thought is if you can’t catch the listener with the title, they probably won’t bother listening.. The Title should, hopefully, catch enough interest to make the listener curious enough to hit Play..

[Whitefang]

For most of the songs I've written(or rather "made up" as nothing except the lyrics was ever written down.)  it was the music that came first.  Starting with a chord pattern, then a melody, then the lyrics to fit that melody.

Whitefang

[RBSinTo]

Sheepdog 1969,

I "composed" a ton of silly, nonsensical songs for our children when they were young, and in all, the lyrics and the song titles were identical.

I explained this to them by saying, if you forget the name of the song, but remember the words, you'll know what it's called, and vice versa.

As for the tunes, they just seemed to coalesce simultaneously with the words.

Strangely enough, none of these songs ever made the AM radio Top 1,000,000.

RBSinTo

[sparquelito]

I have written songs that started with a guitar or keyboard riff.
Also wrote songs that began with a turn of a phrase, or a certain combination of words that turned into a stream-of-consciousness explosion of song lyrics.

I have a song brewing in my head that will include the following lines that I woke up with over my morning coffee yesterday;

YOU DON'T NEED NO CHURCH IF YOU WANT TO PRAY

DON'T NEED A DISCO IF YOU WANT TO DISCO DOWN

The lines sound absurd, but sometimes absurd is what it takes to craft a good and interesting song.

🤔

[Karloff]

for me more times than not the words come 1st then the music.  

[Sheepdog1969]

10 hours ago, sparquelito said:

I have written songs that started with a guitar or keyboard riff.
Also wrote songs that began with a turn of a phrase, or a certain combination of words that turned into a stream-of-consciousness explosion of song lyrics.

I have a song brewing in my head that will include the following lines that I woke up with over my morning coffee yesterday;

YOU DON'T NEED NO CHURCH IF YOU WANT TO PRAY

DON'T NEED A DISCO IF YOU WANT TO DISCO DOWN

The lines sound absurd, but sometimes absurd is what it takes to craft a good and interesting song.

🤔

I remember a grade school English teacher telling our class about the "beats" one could define in a sentence, or even within a single word. She said that syllables produce a discernable emphasis and are referred to as "hard" sounds, versus some other letter combinations that may produce "soft" sounds. These are also referred to as "stressed" and "unstressed" syllables.  Typically, the number of vowel sounds with-in a word create "hard"/"stressed" sounds/beats. This is the traditional English professional definition, yet it seems that the Consonant preceding vowels in words initiate the sharp attack of the beat each syllable makes. It stands to reason that the syllabic structure of lyrics, stands in relation to the time signature of the piece, with syllables representing note durations per said. Syllables lay on the beat, regardless of being represented as Quarter notes, Eighth notes, Sixteenth notes, Tripleletts, etc.. As such, the syllabic structure of a lyrical composition shall define it's time signature, just as the time signature of a composition shall define it's syllabic structure. (What time signature do the lyrics below allude to?)

 I can feel no sense of measure
No illusions as we take
Refuge in young man's pleasure
Breaking down the dreams we make real       

[sparquelito]

2 hours ago, Sheepdog1969 said:

 (What time signature do the lyrics below allude to?)

 I can feel no sense of measure
No illusions as we take
Refuge in young man's pleasure
Breaking down the dreams we make real       

I'm sensing a basic 4/4 rock drum beat, provided that the second line of verse follows the first quickly, there is a pause in the singing after the word, "take", and then the forth line of verse follows the third again quickly.

4/4.
🙂

[Larsongs]

2 hours ago, sparquelito said:

I'm sensing a basic 4/4 rock drum beat, provided that the second line of verse follows the first quickly, there is a pause in the singing after the word, "take", and then the forth line of verse follows the third again quickly.

4/4.
🙂

I’m hearing 5hat too… Although, I’d drop the word real… It’s already implied & it breaks the rhythm… & rhyme..

[merciful-evans]

It Doesn't Matter What I Sing (a bit of this song)

 

It doesn't matter what I Sing

When I sing, it doesn't mean a thing

It doesn't matter what I write

Even though I write with all of my might

It wont matter tomorrow, Its don't matter today

Because I know it didn't matter yesterday

It doesn't matter what I write, in spite, of what I wrote for you

[sparquelito]

2 hours ago, merciful-evans said:

It Doesn't Matter What I Sing (a bit of this song)

 

It doesn't matter what I Sing

When I sing, it doesn't mean a thing

It doesn't matter what I write

Even though I write with all of my might

It wont matter tomorrow, Its don't matter today

Because I know it didn't matter yesterday

It doesn't matter what I write, in spite, of what I wrote for you

I love this, m-e.
🙂

 

[sparquelito]

So, the earlier two simple lines took off today, and the first draft of song lyrics came out of me.

I sussed out a melody and chords, but only for the Chorus.
I can't make magic with the verses and the rest of the song, but it's going to happen this week.

I changed the 'disco' reference, even though it was the notion I woke up with.   It's dance hall now.
And I'll be damned if I didn't somehow write a Christian Rock song, of all things.
But I'm loving how it's developing.

DON’T NEED NO CHURCH

Verse 1
You don’t need no church if you wanna pray
You don’t need a dance hall if you want to get down
I used to pray at work, any time of the day
And with a living room record player you could really go to town

Verse 2
I ain’t no baby daddy, but I can be a father
That young man’s dad left him, and split from his mom
 Dude’s out there running, and can’t be bothered
To spend some time with his child at an after school program

Bridge
I’m glad to be there for this boy, and his mommy too
and to say grace at the supper table
Help with the dishes when the meal is through
I’ll step up as long as I am able

Chorus
      A
To be the man this young one might just grow up to be
        G#m
To show him love and some stability
      A
To be the man his mom can count on when the going is rough
               G#m                                                        D                               A
And to demonstrate my love, and that love is enough

Verse 3
You don’t need no ring if you wanna get married
Can’t afford a proper one anyway
My job, it’s a workload, one that I have always carried
I’m setting money aside, and I can get her one someday

Verse 4
She said you fool you don’t need no church if you wanna pray
Don’t need no dance hall if  you want to get down
I’ll marry you, if you ask me today
I don’t need a ring, because I’m wearing your crown

Bridge
You make me feel like a queen, and my son is a prince
When you say grace at our little supper table
You’re my King, and have been ever since
I have known that you will always be able

Chorus
To be the man my young son might just grow up to be
To show him love and some stability
To be the man I can count on when the going is rough
And to demonstrate your love, and that love is enough

The Lord brought me your love, and that love is enough

Refrain
Spent my whole life looking for that storybook ending
Thinking life was like what we saw on TV

I missed the blessings that the Lord was steadily sending
I got caught up in expectations, and too blind to see

And here it’s all come down an unexpected turn
two people I love at this dinner table
Damn near forty, and I’ve finally learned
that I know I’ll always be able

Chorus
To be the man this young man might just grow up to be
To show him love and some stability
To be the man his mom can count on when the going is rough
And to demonstrate my love, and that love is enough

Demonstrating my love, and that love is enough

God blessed us with love, and that love is enough

😗

Okay, I'm gonna shut up now.