I never realized guitars go to sleep!?

[PrairieDog]

I’m learning so much here: through my earlier post about the “dead j-45” there was a lot of discussion of old strings.  This gave me the thought to look closely at the strings on the DIF I picked up used a few months ago…. Eeewwww! I also had been struggling with my fingers killing me for days after playing, well beyond just building up the callouses again.

In researching what strings to put on, I stumbled on the thread about nickel sensitivity. So thanks to the folks suggesting trying coated strings for that.  A new set of the D’darrio XS coated P/Bs later, and the Doves are truly flying! 

So now I’m getting to really know the guitar and what makes her tick.  Today, I had a major breakthrough, fueled by stuff I read here.    

See, every practice the first thing I’d do is tune the guitar, right? And, it is  “ALWAYS” just a tad sharp.  Even if I just played that morning, or the day before.  I’d set it right, grumbling about finicky tuners, and hit that first C chord.  Always sounds like crap!  Flat, dull, buzzy.  I’d fiddle with my fretting, figuring it’s me and my placement, have spouse hit theirs, hit mine again. Go, wtf, how can it be out of tune? Grab the tuner and invariably it would be the equal amount flat now!  So get it back up, impatiently decide it sounds good enough, and start working.  As the session goes on the guitar mellows out and sounds sweeter and sweeter, and gets so fun to play I’m bummed when I have to put it down.  

So, thinking back again to the dead J-45 and other threads about  guitars that sit around for long periods that need to be worked back open again, it hit me! I believe I have some prima donna guitar that just nods off as soon as she is put back on the stand.  

Tomorrow I’m going to just pull the covers off and start playing before I touch the tuner.  I’m guessing I’ll hear a few initial groans of protest, but I’m betting all she needs is just a little cajoling to wake up.  

Again, thanks for all the helpful info.  I can finally stop freaking out every day at the first few strums, and I will be more patient and generous with strange guitars I meet in stores. They may just be sleepy.  

 

Edited September 9, 2023 by PrairieDog

[Larsongs]

What model Guitar is that?

[E-minor7]

What a great post - and perspective for the years to come.

                                                                                          The trick is to patiently facilitate the rendezvous between your hearing and the warmer'n'warmer guitar. 

[PrairieDog]

14 hours ago, Larsongs said:

What model Guitar is that?

A 2017 Doves in Flight Limited (Mahogany burst) 

[Murph]

15 hours ago, E-minor7 said:

The trick is to patiently facilitate the rendezvous between your hearing and the warmer'n'warmer guitar. 

 

Bingo.

[Murph]

I still tune first.

The top will move with humidity and temperature changes, which will change the tuning.

Tune first.

Tune often...

[PrairieDog]

11 minutes ago, Murph said:

I still tune first.

The top will move with humidity and temperature changes, which will change the tuning.

Tune first.

Tune often...

Yeah, nod. That has always been my method too. However, every string is the same tad sharp when I do the first tune. And a minute later, after hitting the first couple chords that sound godawful flat, I go back, recheck the tuner and gee, each string is now the exact same amount flat that I tuned down from sharp a minute ago.  This leads me to think it  tightens up while resting (hence going sharp) and if I just warm it up and stretch it out for a couple of chops, it will hopefully get it’s mind right and loosen up to be in tune.  I don’t know, may be wishful thinking, but I’m curious.   This all started because I was becoming a bit frustrated, and worried something was wrong, since it can’t seem to hold tune even for a few hours while the new J-45 Studio and Taylor can go a couple days in the same room without having to tweak the pegs.  I’m heading up to Hawk Ridge on Lake Superior today, so I’ll have to see how my experiment goes when I get back this evening.  

[Larsongs]

Usually it’s me that needs to wake up my playing.. The Guitars are fine.. My Guitars are top notch & tune well.

[PrairieDog]

1 minute ago, Larsongs said:

Usually it’s me that needs to wake up my playing.. The Guitars are fine.. My Guitars are top notch & tune well.

Nod, I get that, hence the first part of my note about always assuming first it’s me.  Glad you have gear you are happy with.  I’m not complaining at all about mine. The DIF was/is my dream guitar, and lucked into it much sooner than I expected to.  I just got newbie nerves, as I don’t know enough yet to be confident when something is just me or a real problem.  

[Larsongs]

1 hour ago, PrairieDog said:

Nod, I get that, hence the first part of my note about always assuming first it’s me.  Glad you have gear you are happy with.  I’m not complaining at all about mine. The DIF was/is my dream guitar, and lucked into it much sooner than I expected to.  I just got newbie nerves, as I don’t know enough yet to be confident when something is just me or a real problem.  

One of my mentors taught me the I got to play the Guitar like I own it & not let the Guitar play like it owns me…. Enjoy your new Guitar!

[62burst]

20 hours ago, PrairieDog said:

I’m learning so much here: through my earlier post about the “dead j-45” there was a lot of discussion of old strings.  This gave me the thought to look closely at the strings on the DIF I picked up used a few months ago…. Eeewwww! I also had been struggling with my fingers killing me for days after playing, well beyond just building up the callouses again.

'Read your post a few times-  the strings all uniformly going flat is fairly common. . . and that would draw attention away from a closer examination of the tuners. How long have these strings been on the guitar? Since you'd mentioned sore fingers, are you just getting back into playing? There are a few tricks that can help settle down new strings. . . I like to stretch them in, from the bridge to almost the first few frets. . .  to the extent of preferring to stretch a string down, rather than touching a tuner when the string is sharp (especially the G). But you also mention occasionally all strings uniformly going sharp? That's more uncommon, and it would normally point to swings in humidity, as Murph had mentioned. Do you keep it out on the stand? Near HVAC or a doorway? Just throwing out some ideas. Nice looking Dove.

 

[J185cat]

I like to rotate my guitars around so that none go for long periods without getting played. I always have two in the den ready to play, do that for awhile and then rotate one out for a different one.

[zombywoof]

I know the theory behind say that Tone Rite gizmo is that the vibration temporarily "loosens up the grain" so essentially shakes off the cobwebs.  But after the guitar sits for a bit, it goes back to its same old used to be.

Bu even though he may have been goofing on us a bit, I am with Larsongs on this one.  I do not think it is as much the guitars that are sitting around feeling ignored as it is muscle memory needing some time to kick in when moving between guitars sporting different body shapes as well as varying setups and nut, neck, and string spacing at the bridge specs.  I just tend to stumble around for a while when moving from a guitar with these specs to one with those specs.

[PrairieDog]

At last an Update:  I had a crazy week in the office, and had to stay out of the music room until last night.  So the DIF slept alone for nearly a week, sad and unloved.  And guess what? The experiment worked!   Just started playing, strummed some, picked a bit, and only then picked up the tuner.  Sure enough, yes, it was still a tweak sharp, but not even as bad as before, and all I needed to do was stretch/wiggle each string to get it to lock on.   (I already was doing that when it was so close to being in tune it wasn’t worth touching the peg, just not trying this far off the mark.) Ahh, relief, my days of starting out tuning down a sharp guitar, only to have to tune back up from the flat moments later once I start playing are over.   Cool.  

[PrairieDog]

On 9/11/2023 at 6:22 AM, zombywoof said:

I know the theory behind say that Tone Rite gizmo is that the vibration temporarily "loosens up the grain" so essentially shakes off the cobwebs.  But after the guitar sits for a bit, it goes back to its same old used to be.

Bu even though he may have been goofing on us a bit, I am with Larsongs on this one.  I do not think it is as much the guitars that are sitting around feeling ignored as it is muscle memory needing some time to kick in when moving between guitars sporting different body shapes as well as varying setups and nut, neck, and string spacing at the bridge specs.  I just tend to stumble around for a while when moving from a guitar with these specs to one with those specs.

But not exactly sure how my lazy, unworked muscles would be causing the guitar to go out of tune?  And as I said, I always checked my fretting to make sure it wasn’t me when.  I totally own you have to keep in shape, but my post is about a guitar that appeared to be going to sleep and tightening up a full tick sharp, so that I’d tune it down, but then it would be flat when I started to play.  Turns out (see my update above) it actually is in a state of tune, but just needs to be cajoled a bit to loosen back up.  

Edited September 17, 2023 by PrairieDog

[PrairieDog]

On 9/10/2023 at 12:00 PM, 62burst said:

'Read your post a few times-  the strings all uniformly going flat is fairly common. . . and that would draw attention away from a closer examination of the tuners. How long have these strings been on the guitar? Since you'd mentioned sore fingers, are you just getting back into playing? There are a few tricks that can help settle down new strings. . . I like to stretch them in, from the bridge to almost the first few frets. . .  to the extent of preferring to stretch a string down, rather than touching a tuner when the string is sharp (especially the G). But you also mention occasionally all strings uniformly going sharp? That's more uncommon, and it would normally point to swings in humidity, as Murph had mentioned. Do you keep it out on the stand? Near HVAC or a doorway? Just throwing out some ideas. Nice looking Dove.

 

See my update above.  Yes it invariably starts out with all the strings equally sharp, like the guitar tightens up between plays.  Humidity is right in the zone.  It is away from the register/window, etc.) It is out on the stand so I can get to it freely. I was trying to keep in the case, with the humidi-pack, but boy that did get to be a mental hurdle when I wanted to play quickly.  I found I often would say, “later, when I have more time.”  I’m hoping it can stay out as long as the room can be managed.  We have a Dyson humidifier for once the heat is on for real.  Thanks for the suggestions. I was already doing the string stretches when they were just a smidge sharp and that was part of what put me on the “is the guitar just tight?” and sent me down this train of thought. Now I know I just need to put the guitar through morning stretches like a gymnast before worrying about touching the pegs.  

[olie]

On 9/10/2023 at 8:48 AM, PrairieDog said:

Yeah, nod. That has always been my method too. However, every string is the same tad sharp when I do the first tune. And a minute later, after hitting the first couple chords that sound godawful flat, I go back, recheck the tuner and gee, each string is now the exact same amount flat that I tuned down from sharp a minute ago.  This leads me to think it  tightens up while resting (hence going sharp) and if I just warm it up and stretch it out for a couple of chops, it will hopefully get it’s mind right and loosen up to be in tune.  I don’t know, may be wishful thinking, but I’m curious.   This all started because I was becoming a bit frustrated, and worried something was wrong, since it can’t seem to hold tune even for a few hours while the new J-45 Studio and Taylor can go a couple days in the same room without having to tweak the pegs.  I’m heading up to Hawk Ridge on Lake Superior today, so I’ll have to see how my experiment goes when I get back this evening.  

Going to look at migratory birdies are we? I'm originally from Thunder Bay, not too far from there. Beautiful country.

Enjoy!

[fortyearspickn]

I keep mine out, and they rarely will  need a tweak on 1 or 2 stings.  Always in the same direction - maybe as much as  1/8th of a twist of the tuner key.   Usually, even if played for a couple of weeks, they are still in tune.  I agree w/ suggestions above that it is more likely the humidity and temps causing variations than the wood going to sleep.   You note it starts out a tad sharp, then after you tune it and  play a chord - it sounds fuzzy and flat , and the electronic tuner now reads flat !   I've noticed differences between my electronic tuner (clamp on headstock) and the iPhone app tuner, the later being more accurate.  But I've never gone and re-checked the tuning later to  see if, after tuning and playing, if the guitar was still in tune.  Because, as I said, it invariably would be a week later when I picked it up again.   What kind of tuner do you use?  Is it set for 440hz and 'guitar' ?  Strange. 

[PrairieDog]

22 hours ago, olie said:

Going to look at migratory birdies are we? I'm originally from Thunder Bay, not too far from there. Beautiful country.

Enjoy!

Grin, yes.  It was a beautiful day, the colors are just beginning to change, the view to lake was clear, and the birds were flying! Hope you have occasions to come “home!” 

[PrairieDog]

5 hours ago, fortyearspickn said:

I keep mine out, and they rarely will  need a tweak on 1 or 2 stings.  Always in the same direction - maybe as much as  1/8th of a twist of the tuner key.   Usually, even if played for a couple of weeks, they are still in tune.  I agree w/ suggestions above that it is more likely the humidity and temps causing variations than the wood going to sleep.   You note it starts out a tad sharp, then after you tune it and  play a chord - it sounds fuzzy and flat , and the electronic tuner now reads flat !   I've noticed differences between my electronic tuner (clamp on headstock) and the iPhone app tuner, the later being more accurate.  But I've never gone and re-checked the tuning later to  see if, after tuning and playing, if the guitar was still in tune.  Because, as I said, it invariably would be a week later when I picked it up again.   What kind of tuner do you use?  Is it set for 440hz and 'guitar' ?  Strange. 

See my little update yesterday above. turns out it really is just “tense” when I pick it up.  I tried again this morning and yeah, I just needed to strum it a bit to have it come down back in tune.  And yep, no cheap headstock tuner, all this is using a good app tuner appropriately.  It was the annoying routine of going from finding it “sharp” on the tuner when I picked it up, so dutifully pegging it down to be in tune, then being hideously flat once I started playing (i.e. stretching out the strings) that was driving me nuts.  It really is “in tune” in the first place, it just needs to work the kinks out.  Now I know it will sound just fine after a few minutes of warming up.  

[olie]

2 hours ago, PrairieDog said:

Grin, yes.  It was a beautiful day, the colors are just beginning to change, the view to lake was clear, and the birds were flying! Hope you have occasions to come “home!” 

I recently drove back "home" from the Kingston area and got to visit with 14 people who I haven't seen for an average of 50 years! It was a round trip drive of 3428 K. 

(2130 miles) and spanned 10 days. It was gruelling but absolutely worth it. Time needs to be spent while we still have some.

[E-minor7]

"I never realized guitars go to sleep!?"

                                                                                                      Just wait till you get insight into their dreams. . 

[Murph]

Mine don't get much rest.

Sometimes when I walk past them hanging on the wall, I'll yell "HEY WAKEUP" real loud, just to p!ss 'em off...

Edited September 19, 2023 by Murph

[PrairieDog]

17 hours ago, olie said:

I recently drove back "home" from the Kingston area and got to visit with 14 people who I haven't seen for an average of 50 years! It was a round trip drive of 3428 K. 

(2130 miles) and spanned 10 days. It was gruelling but absolutely worth it. Time needs to be spent while we still have some.

Wow. Fantastic.  When I was a young child my dad’s people in Texas used to hold big reunions at the family “camp” since the mid 1800s.  The place finally got sold off in the 1980s  just before I had any means to take it over.  Still, it was awful sad no one else in the family could, or was interested, in holding on to it.  50 years later, there’s just a scattering of us left, and I have no idea where most of them are now.   Glad you got to have a chance at reconnection.  

[PrairieDog]

2 hours ago, Murph said:

Mine don't get much rest.

Sometimes when I walk past them hanging on the wall, I'll yell "HEY WAKEUP" real loud, just to p!ss 'em off...

This made me laugh out loud, and I really needed to do that today! thank you!