Elderly Instruments purchase, is this normal?

[PrairieDog]

So yesterday I was gobsmacked with a new Pisgah Possum banjo under the tree. (Big smooch to my dear spouse, who was delightfully “naughty” for going there, chuckle). It was bought at Elderly, and the listing implied it was new as they are a vendor for Pisgah.  

In showing me all the features, noticing the serial number, it came to my beloved’s attention that the instrument is actually 5 years old, not close to the serial number in the listing which had a build date of ‘22.  We know the ads say, “you may not receive the exact same instrument” but as  these banjos tend to fly off the racks  as soon as they come in, shipping a five year old “new” instrument is raising some concerns about it’s real status.

To be clear, I love it, it sounds great, and plays beautifully (as far as this wannabe newbie can tell) so before we decide to raise an issue, can someone help talk us down off the roof?  Like how big a deal is this?  

To summarize: a highly desirable, handmade, small shop instrument, sold as new from a great rep seller,  but maybe used, should we care?  

This was the first purchase with Elderly.  We know they are known for being a great store, and didn’t expect any hiccups.  So we aren’t sure if this was an innocent error (ie they shipped a used one by mistake) or is it common that they have new instruments that are that old in stock? 

Does anyone know if banjos “open up” like guitars, so an older one might actually be a good thing? 

It doesn’t look played, but there were some etched in fingerprints on the metal parts that needed to be buffed out with steel wool when it arrived to look pristine again. If this was a resale, and the warranty is no longer active, would it be appropriate to ask for a price adjustment?  Or does that not matter when ordering from Elderly, you get whatever they have in stock, new or used at the price listed?

Since it could be many months to return this one just to get a certified “new build” with a warranty, my gut feeling here is a banjo on the knee is better than one on the truck. But it also doesn’t seem quite right to pay the not insignificant full retail price for a previously owned instrument, especially one that hasn’t quite crossed over into vintage/collector territory yet.  But if that is how Elderly works, it can be a lesson learned.

Anyway, any advice about whether to press it, or just happily pluck away would be much appreciated.

Hope everyone had a Merry Christmas! 

 

 

 

[sparquelito]

I have no experience dealing with Elderly Instruments, but:

1. The banjo sounds like a keeper

and,
2. A phone call to the management at Elderly Instruments won't hurt one bit.
I would call them and ask is it normal for them to sell a five year old instrument as new.
They may be able to offer some elucidation that will make you feel better about the whole thing.

🙂

PS  My wife (back then, my girlfriend) surprised me with a nice Hawaiian-made ukulele for my birthday in 1998.
A delightful and unexpected gift!
Your wife is a jewel for getting you that banjo.

😃

[PrairieDog]

2 minutes ago, sparquelito said:

I have no experience dealing with Elderly Instruments, but:

1. The banjo sounds like a keeper

and,
2. A phone call to the management at Elderly Instruments won't hurt one bit.
I would call them and ask is it normal for them to sell a five year old instrument as new.
They may be able to offer some elucidation that will make you feel better about the whole thing.

🙂

PS  My wife (back then, my girlfriend) surprised me with a nice Hawaiian-made ukulele for my birthday in 1998.
A delightful and unexpected gift!
Your wife is a jewel for getting you that banjo.

😃

Ooh, you got a good one too! 🙂 Thanks for the thoughts.  I was thinking a call, but before dialing just want to make sure we understood how they operated.  We’re late in life new to all this, so want to be good customers and respectful to vendors we might be dealing with for a long time, fingers crossed.  

[Dave F]

I've bought from them and also consigned with them. They're very responsive and I expect you will have no issues.

[PrairieDog]

26 minutes ago, Dave F said:

I've bought from them and also consigned with them. They're very responsive and I expect you will have no issues.

Thanks Dave

[gearbasher]

I've bought and sold to them for years. I once ordered a LP Classic Premium Plus from them and they sent me a LP Custom Premium Plus. One phone call and the instrument was on it's way back with no loss for me. But, keep in mind I haven't  dealt with them in about 15 years.

[PrairieDog]

Thanks Guys,  So we thought to check with Patrick at Pisgah (super nice guy). He said he shipped that one to Elderly in 2019 and it hasn’t been registered yet in their books, so the warranty is ours.  Talking it over with him, perhaps the short scale neck might be the reason it lingered.  Short is absolutely fine with me, my stretch isn’t what it used to be.   We sent a note to Elderly at Patrick’s suggestion. He thought it did sound a bit shopworn and thought they might make an adjustment since it had to be touched up, not to mention the strings are pretty well aged looking closely at them.  While it will be great if they offer a consideration, we are mostly relieved Patrick gave us the thumbs up everything looked right from his records.  Plucking on! 

Edited December 26, 2023 by PrairieDog

[Larsongs]

If the Listing advertised a 22 I’d expect a 22.. Even if it isn’t the one in their Ad. Otherwise, NO FAIR,  it isn’t as advertised.

I would want a 22. Or to renegotiate the deal.. I’d want 15 - 20% off the original 5 year old suggested MAP price.. I’d also want all the Case Candy &  a New Instrument Warranty.

Otherwise I’d most likely Return it.. 

[sparquelito]

I'm nobody in this discussion, but it sounds like the banjo is a great one, and you have now formed a relationship with the builder.

See what the Elderly cats have to offer, and do your best to hang onto that one-of-a-kind hand-built banjo.
They are just the middle-men, but they do bear some responsibility for their marketing.

I wouldn't want to make them bleed, so much as make them show you some respectful consideration.

🫠
 

[PrairieDog]

3 hours ago, Larsongs said:

If the Listing advertised a 22 I’d expect a 22.. Even if it isn’t the one in their Ad. Otherwise, NO FAIR,  it isn’t as advertised.

I would want a 22. Or to renegotiate the deal.. I’d want 15 - 20% off the original 5 year old suggested MAP price.. I’d also want all the Case Candy &  a New Instrument Warranty.

Otherwise I’d most likely Return it.. 

Nod, I appreciate the comment.   You touched on the thing  that does irk. It was listed at the 2023 price, a markup from what they paid in 2019.  

We just got a nice but non-committal response from Elderly, they are going to check with Pisgah on the actual build date, along with a comment to just go ahead and buff the fingerprints out, like we wouldn’t think of or understand that fingerprints happen.  They didn’t seem to grasp, and didn’t look at the photo, that it wasn’t that kind of normal, expected smudging.  The acids had actually etched into the metal and 0000 steel wool and some work was required to spiff it back up, (at Pisgah’s direction it was okay to do, since it is raw brass). We heard Elderly was known for taking care to freshen up instruments, making sure they were right before shipping them out.  This looked like they had just pulled it out of the garage and boxed it up.  

Anyway, as I mentioned above, I have it now.  I hate to give it back.  Patrick confirmed is the same build as a newer one, other than now he has a label with the model and SN inside the rim.   I might ask if he could just send one along, since we don’t have any other official documentation for it.  He also mentioned as one good thing, this one is settled in now, where a new one would take some time to come into its own, so that is a plus.  

I’m not sure at this point the iffy issues with Elderly would be worth the hassle of returning and the long wait to get a new one.   If they come back with some kindness, they’ll have loyal customers.  Otherwise, there are other places to shop.  We just really wanted to love them like everyone else does.  

Edited December 27, 2023 by PrairieDog

[PrairieDog]

2 minutes ago, sparquelito said:

I'm nobody in this discussion, but it sounds like the banjo is a great one, and you have now formed a relationship with the builder.

See what the Elderly cats have to offer, and do your best to hang onto that one-of-a-kind hand-built banjo.
They are just the middle-men, but they do bear some responsibility for their marketing.

I wouldn't want to make them bleed, so much as make them show you some respectful consideration.

🫠
 

You summed it up exactly. We will see what they come back with. 

[slimt]

Stan is s really good guy.  Great store.   But as like other stores Staff changes, experience in stock lacks. Management tends to make bad decisions ,. Hope you get it worked out  
 

 

[PrairieDog]

25 minutes ago, slimt said:

Stan is s really good guy.  Great store.   But as like other stores Staff changes, experience in stock lacks. Management tends to make bad decisions ,. Hope you get it worked out  
 

 

Nod.  Retail is a tough gig.  I don’t envy what stores have to deal with, especially at Christmas.  Like I said, we’re sorta hoping they will do a good turn to make it up, everybody says they are a great company to work with.  Otherwise, in the grand scheme of things, life could certainly be much worse.  

[Pinch]

12 hours ago, sparquelito said:

I'm nobody in this discussion, but it sounds like the banjo is a great one, and you have now formed a relationship with the builder.

🫠
 

I agree 100%.

[Murph]

Wait.

They sold you a NOS 2019 using 2023 pricing as being new?

Those years are the worst inflation since Plato.

Honesty is the key to a relationship.

They tried to pull one over on you.

I would never forget that, even if I liked the instrument and decided to keep it, I would never forget that.

Very un-ethical. 

Edited December 27, 2023 by Murph

[Larsongs]

39 minutes ago, Murph said:

Wait.

They sold you a NOS 2019 using 2023 pricing as being new?

Those years are the worst inflation since Plato.

Honesty is the key to a relationship.

They tried to pull one over on you.

I would never forget that, even if I liked the instrument and decided to keep it, I would never forget that.

Very un-ethical. 

It would always be stuck in my craw & I’d be think of it every time I picked up that instrument..

[PrairieDog]

30 minutes ago, Murph said:

I would never forget that, even if I liked the instrument and decided to keep it, I would never forget that.

Very un-ethical. 

We hear ya.  At the moment we are there, if they come back today with good news, maybe we will get to remember them for correcting what might have been an honest mistake.  Since they obviously had 2022 stock at some point based on the pic, they may have kept the listing at the current price list without checking which instrument was getting shipped.  I can see that happening.  Hope still springs eternal.  However, the dubious voice reminds us they said, “they were going to check with Pisgah about the date.”  Uhhh, don’t they have the stocking date for that SN in their inventory books?  

[PrairieDog]

1 minute ago, Larsongs said:

It would always be stuck in my craw & I’d be think of it every time I picked up that instrument..

Well,  it was such a spectacular, unexpected gift the shine polishes all blame off the sweet banjo itself (don’t punish the kids because the uncle is a cad). Plus it doesn’t reflect on Pisgah at all.  Patrick has been really cool about helping and answering questions through the whole purchase and after.  And again, there will always be lots of places to spend our money.  And it wasn’t like it was supposed to be a “deal,” if you want one, you pay full price, they are so sought after.  So we have to consider, the price paid was the price we were willing to pay.  That is why an adjustment for the condition would be a nice gesture, but it’s not really mandatory.  They shipped a warrantied instrument in the build paid for, it only had been hanging around a long time and was a bit shop worn. I’m telling myself if it was the prime rib I bought, they’d call it “dry aged” and charge a premium for it, chuckle.  

[Pinch]

5 minutes ago, PrairieDog said:

Well,  it was such a spectacular, unexpected gift the shine polishes all blame off the sweet banjo itself (don’t punish the kids because the uncle is a cad). Plus it doesn’t reflect on Pisgah at all.  Patrick has been really cool about helping and answering questions through the whole purchase and after.  And again, there will always be lots of places to spend our money.  And it wasn’t like it was supposed to be a “deal,” if you want one, you pay full price, they are so sought after.  So we have to consider, the price paid was the price we were willing to pay.  That is why an adjustment for the condition would be a nice gesture, but it’s not really mandatory.  They shipped a warrantied instrument in the build paid for, it only had been hanging around a long time and was a bit shop worn. I’m telling myself if it was the prime rib I bought, they’d call it “dry aged” and charge a premium for it, chuckle.  

And you can bet if you get a "new" one it'll sound like crap compared to the one you have now. 

[PrairieDog]

5 minutes ago, Pinch said:

And you can bet if you get a "new" one it'll sound like crap compared to the one you have now. 

Yep, probably the reason I can be so sanguine about it all since Patrick pointed that bit out. 

[sparquelito]

I keep hoping that Elderly Instruments sends you a photo of Earl Scruggs playing that very banjo while visiting their shop.

That would sweeten the deal a bit.

😬

 

[PrairieDog]

Well, there we go! Elderly came through, and their great rep is justified.  Last night we heard back with a modest offer that we hadn’t been able to reply to yet.  Before we could, on their own, they sent a new note, offering a more sizable adjustment (bringing it closer to the 2019 price) and a very kind acknowledgment there was a disconnect in the listing and apologizing for the confusion it caused.  It is an excellent, much appreciated resolution, we are very happy and won’t worry about doing business with them again.  

Thanks everyone for the comments, both the reassuring and the “that’s a problem” ones, chuckle .  Knowing we weren’t just being “those people”, but they would likely do right helped keep everything from rolling off the rails.  Another reason why you all are a good group of people. 

I just  realized I never paid the image tax. Here’s the Possum: Cherry rim and neck, persimmon tone ring and fretboard, raw brass hardware.  With lovely simple purfling and binding details.   Everything is sourced and made here, from the woods, down to the specialty machined hardware.  Pisgah makes a point to partner with small local vendors for all their supplies and gear.  A really great shop if you are ever looking for a banjo.  

 

Edited December 29, 2023 by PrairieDog

[Larsongs]

Glad it worked out & you’re happy..

[sparquelito]

Oh man, such a gorgeous instrument!

Congrats, and we're happy to hear the satisfactory outcome.

😃

[Murph]

Sweet.

Now, don't play so damned loud...