Audio or linear?

[nopicknick]

2024 SG Standard which do I have?

[Dub-T-123]

Should be 500k log but I don’t know what you actually have 

[nopicknick]

👍

[Eracer_Team]

in the "old" days. Gibson used 500k/500k (volumes/tones)

then somewhere in their 'infinite' wisdom changed the volume pots to 300k volume and 500k tone (1980's??).

most of us will change out the 300k volume with 500k volumes if we need to change pots.

[codename]

I'm confused, (typical for me lol) with this thread . Linear/audio refers to the taper. Ohms refers to the value. 

[Eracer_Team]

@codename correct

but Dub-T said 500k. 
depending on what Gibson did that year could be 300 or 500k pots

Also if you look at sources like RS Guitar Works they sell Audio-Taper pots for their upgrade kits 

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

Here is how the magic works.

https://sixstringsupplies.co.uk/pages/audio-or-linear-pots

[PrairieDog]

7 minutes ago, Sgt. Pepper said:

Here is how the magic works.

https://sixstringsupplies.co.uk/pages/audio-or-linear-pots

Thanks, that was helpful

[Dub-T-123]

Pots are very rudimentary devices. If there is some element of mystery to you, I’d suggest not to worry about “why”, but simply follow the rules and get the appropriately sized CTS 500K log pots for your Gibson. 
 

It works correctly every time and requires no thought

 

I intentionally recommended the correct part without explaining why

[PrairieDog]

since it’s a brand new one, if you haven’t tried already, the best bet is to call Gibson CS and ask (rather than asking us bunch of randos on a fan forum who don’t have access to the specs for your guitar, and who don’t know why you are asking) .  The number is on their page under support.  With the serial number they should be able to tell you.  

[Sgt. Pepper]

2 hours ago, Dub-T-123 said:

Pots are very rudimentary devices. If there is some element of mystery to you, I’d suggest not to worry about “why”, but simply follow the rules and get the appropriately sized CTS 500K log pots for your Gibson. 
 

It works correctly every time and requires no thought

 

I intentionally recommended the correct part without explaining why

All a potentiometer is, is a variable resistor with what is called a wiper. The wiper is the part connected to the shaft that we turn with the volume or tone knob. It has 3 leads to connect wires to. A variable resistor has 2 leads. A pot can be used as variable resistor if only the wiper and one of the other leads is used, but a variable resistor can not be used as a pot. Both vary resistance. Depending on your needs you get one or the other. Pots also divide up voltage. 

Edited July 17 by Sgt. Pepper

[Dub-T-123]

Explaining a pot is like explaining 1+1

 

If you don’t get it from the start you’re probably not part of the conversation. Don’t pretend, just blindly follow the rules and you’ll always win 

 

Gibson 500K log

 

Fender 250K log 

 

not that complicated till you hit the Jazzmaster

[rct]

I have to agree with Dub here, and not just because of our shared man crush.  Pots are just pots.  250 in a Fender, no matter what the pickups, 500 in a Gibson.  The rest is just dogma, you can waste time researching and deciding whether or not you agree with it, or just go with what has, and I can't say this enough, worked for as long as I've been doing this.  Long time.

rct

[Pinch]

I'm illiterate when it comes to electricity, but I know a pot is a variable resistor. I've decided to think of 300K pots as "vintage" and 500K pots as "iconically standard". I've no idea what difference the numbers make. If I were to guess, you need a bigger number to accomodate a stronger signal?

[Eracer_Team]

@Pinch the "standard" and the "vintage" was the 500k

according to the Les Paul forum gang.. the 300k pots started in around 1973 (the Norlin area)

the 'accepted' normal is 500k for all the controls.. but Gibson can and does change their own rules .

just look at the mess they've made with serial numbers

[Sgt. Pepper]

On 7/22/2024 at 8:25 PM, Eracer_Team said:

@Pinch the "standard" and the "vintage" was the 500k

according to the Les Paul forum gang.. the 300k pots started in around 1973 (the Norlin area)

the 'accepted' normal is 500k for all the controls.. but Gibson can and does change their own rules .

just look at the mess they've made with serial numbers

Gibson could find a way to mess up hot sex with a supermodel. Numbers are hard. Martin’s consecutive serial number system is just to dumb and taxing. We need it to change every 3 months, ya know keep the ones who keep us in business on their toes.

Edited July 24 by Sgt. Pepper

[badbluesplayer]

They're audio (log) taper pots on new SG's.  They're "A taper" pots.  A taper is log. B taper is linear.  C taper is anti-log, or reverse taper.  That's in USA.

They make different log tapers - pots that will open up slightly faster or slower.   I think they vary by percentage open at halfway.  Like 10% open or 30% open.  Something like that.

[Dub-T-123]

On 7/22/2024 at 12:43 PM, Pinch said:

I'm illiterate when it comes to electricity, but I know a pot is a variable resistor. I've decided to think of 300K pots as "vintage" and 500K pots as "iconically standard". I've no idea what difference the numbers make. If I were to guess, you need a bigger number to accomodate a stronger signal?

A pot can be wired as a variable resistor if you only use the wiper and one other lug but it’s a little bit more than that

 

A pot contains basically a little C shaped track of electrically conductive but resistive material. There is a connection point at the starting line, and another connection at the finish line

 

The wiper is like the race car on the track. It’s the part that moves across the track depending on where you have positioned the control knob

 

If you turn the knob all the way down, it’s like the car is parked at the starting line. If you turn the knob all the way up, it’s like the car is stopped at the finish line. 
 

let’s say we have a 100M race track representing a 100K linear pot. If the race car is 25M from the starting line, then it is simultaneously 75M from the finish line. 
 

So in effect we have not just one but two variable resistors. Depending on the position of the wiper aka race car, you can see that resistance increases on one side of the wiper as it decreases on the opposite side 
 

The configuration used in a normal volume control is called a voltage divider. 
 

the starting point of the race track is connected to ground which can be seen as sortof like a black hole where electrical signals go to die. The finish line of the race track is connected directly to the full strength output of the audio source, in this case a guitar pickup. 
 

Now the wiper of the pot is used as the output. When the wiper is parked at the finish line, the output is directly connected to the pickup while simultaneously being separated from ground by 500K. The result is max volume
 

When parked at the starting line, the output is directly shunted to ground, with 500K still technically between the pickup and ground, however that’s sortof irrelevant when the entire output is shunted to ground. The result is silence
 

As you rotate the pot between the starting and finishing points, you have variable resistance between the signal and ground, and variable resistance between the pickup output and the output of the pot  

 

The control here is not like controlling the gain of an amplifier. It is a passive system which only bleeds off power, it cannot add extra power. In practice, high frequencies go into the black hole more eagerly than low frequencies, so you will notice less high frequencies the more you turn the volume control down. 
 

If you use a 300K pot instead of a 500K pot you simply have less resistance to ground, so you experience more loss of power. Since high frequencies are the first to jump into the black hole, you experience not only less power but less high frequencies. 
 

So all that is to say that in this configuration, higher value pots will result in a louder and brighter signal. And just to be clear, 500K is both the “vintage” and “iconically standard” value for Gibson. There is basically no reason to want the 300K because you could just turn your 500K down a bit

 

I’m sure that was a horrible explanation but hey I’m not a professional teacher or anything. Moral of the story and getting back to one of my previous posts, it’s not really important to understand any of this, if you just use the right 500K for Gibson and 250K for Fender everything will work the way you expect 

[Sgt. Pepper]

3 hours ago, Dub-T-123 said:

A pot can be wired as a variable resistor if you only use the wiper and one other lug but it’s a little bit more than that

 

A pot contains basically a little C shaped track of electrically conductive but resistive material. There is a connection point at the starting line, and another connection at the finish line

 

The wiper is like the race car on the track. It’s the part that moves across the track depending on where you have positioned the control knob

 

If you turn the knob all the way down, it’s like the car is parked at the starting line. If you turn the knob all the way up, it’s like the car is stopped at the finish line. 
 

let’s say we have a 100M race track representing a 100K linear pot. If the race car is 25M from the starting line, then it is simultaneously 75M from the finish line. 
 

So in effect we have not just one but two variable resistors. Depending on the position of the wiper aka race car, you can see that resistance increases on one side of the wiper as it decreases on the opposite side 
 

The configuration used in a normal volume control is called a voltage divider. 
 

the starting point of the race track is connected to ground which can be seen as sortof like a black hole where electrical signals go to die. The finish line of the race track is connected directly to the full strength output of the audio source, in this case a guitar pickup. 
 

Now the wiper of the pot is used as the output. When the wiper is parked at the finish line, the output is directly connected to the pickup while simultaneously being separated from ground by 500K. The result is max volume
 

When parked at the starting line, the output is directly shunted to ground, with 500K still technically between the pickup and ground, however that’s sortof irrelevant when the entire output is shunted to ground. The result is silence
 

As you rotate the pot between the starting and finishing points, you have variable resistance between the signal and ground, and variable resistance between the pickup output and the output of the pot  

 

The control here is not like controlling the gain of an amplifier. It is a passive system which only bleeds off power, it cannot add extra power. In practice, high frequencies go into the black hole more eagerly than low frequencies, so you will notice less high frequencies the more you turn the volume control down. 
 

If you use a 300K pot instead of a 500K pot you simply have less resistance to ground, so you experience more loss of power. Since high frequencies are the first to jump into the black hole, you experience not only less power but less high frequencies. 
 

So all that is to say that in this configuration, higher value pots will result in a louder and brighter signal. And just to be clear, 500K is both the “vintage” and “iconically standard” value for Gibson. There is basically no reason to want the 300K because you could just turn your 500K down a bit

 

I’m sure that was a horrible explanation but hey I’m not a professional teacher or anything. Moral of the story and getting back to one of my previous posts, it’s not really important to understand any of this, if you just use the right 500K for Gibson and 250K for Fender everything will work the way you expect 

As an electrician my favorite is when someone try’s to explain electricity like water flowing in a pipe. No it’s not like that.

[Pinch]

3 hours ago, Dub-T-123 said:

A pot can be wired as a variable resistor if you only use the wiper and one other lug but it’s a little bit more than that

 

A pot contains basically a little C shaped track of electrically conductive but resistive material. There is a connection point at the starting line, and another connection at the finish line

 

The wiper is like the race car on the track. It’s the part that moves across the track depending on where you have positioned the control knob

 

If you turn the knob all the way down, it’s like the car is parked at the starting line. If you turn the knob all the way up, it’s like the car is stopped at the finish line. 
 

let’s say we have a 100M race track representing a 100K linear pot. If the race car is 25M from the starting line, then it is simultaneously 75M from the finish line. 
 

So in effect we have not just one but two variable resistors. Depending on the position of the wiper aka race car, you can see that resistance increases on one side of the wiper as it decreases on the opposite side 
 

The configuration used in a normal volume control is called a voltage divider. 
 

the starting point of the race track is connected to ground which can be seen as sortof like a black hole where electrical signals go to die. The finish line of the race track is connected directly to the full strength output of the audio source, in this case a guitar pickup. 
 

Now the wiper of the pot is used as the output. When the wiper is parked at the finish line, the output is directly connected to the pickup while simultaneously being separated from ground by 500K. The result is max volume
 

When parked at the starting line, the output is directly shunted to ground, with 500K still technically between the pickup and ground, however that’s sortof irrelevant when the entire output is shunted to ground. The result is silence
 

As you rotate the pot between the starting and finishing points, you have variable resistance between the signal and ground, and variable resistance between the pickup output and the output of the pot  

 

The control here is not like controlling the gain of an amplifier. It is a passive system which only bleeds off power, it cannot add extra power. In practice, high frequencies go into the black hole more eagerly than low frequencies, so you will notice less high frequencies the more you turn the volume control down. 
 

If you use a 300K pot instead of a 500K pot you simply have less resistance to ground, so you experience more loss of power. Since high frequencies are the first to jump into the black hole, you experience not only less power but less high frequencies. 
 

So all that is to say that in this configuration, higher value pots will result in a louder and brighter signal. And just to be clear, 500K is both the “vintage” and “iconically standard” value for Gibson. There is basically no reason to want the 300K because you could just turn your 500K down a bit

 

I’m sure that was a horrible explanation but hey I’m not a professional teacher or anything. Moral of the story and getting back to one of my previous posts, it’s not really important to understand any of this, if you just use the right 500K for Gibson and 250K for Fender everything will work the way you expect 

No, it makes sense, Thanks.

[Sgt. Pepper]

1 hour ago, Pinch said:

No, it makes sense, Thanks.

If only I’d been taught electricity with car analogies. It might not have taken years to understand. I still don’t understand it, I just follow the electrical rules and laws.

E = I x R

E is Voltage 

I is Current 

R is Resistance 

Edited July 26 by Sgt. Pepper