Epi weight-relief

[pippy]

Does anyone here know whether or not the Epiphone Les Paul range of instruments have been/are weight-relieved?

 

I've done a quick topic-search here and can find no information. I know I'd be better off asking on the Epi forum but I'm not a member there and it seems a bit much to register just to ask one question.

 

If they are not weight-relieved, but solid, can anyone explain how Epiphone can get lighter mahogany (and at a low price to boot) for their bodies than Gibson can for theirs?

 

[Andre S]

The Les Paul Ultra is.

http://www.epiphone.com/ultraII/default.html

 

But thats chambered...

 

heres a topic from MLP

 

http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/epiphone-les-pauls/2811-epiphone-les-pauls-chambered.html

[pippy]

The Les Paul Ultra is.

http://www.epiphone.com/ultraII/default.html

 

But thats chambered...

 

heres a topic from MLP

 

http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/epiphone-les-pauls/2811-epiphone-les-pauls-chambered.html

 

Thanks for that, gibsonlespaul1319.

 

In the second link someone mentions the body material as being alder but I've just checked on the Epi site and, with the exceptions of the chambered Ultra (as you pointed out) and the LP Special (Basswood) they list all the other dozen or so variants as having 'Body Material - Mahogany'.

 

So, my question still stands; are Epi LP's weight-relieved?

[Hillybilly]

i dont know about weight relief, but i'm sure epis sure "inferior" tone woods....almost certainly the cheaper African mahogany.

[Eracer_Team]

They also might use different techniques to make up the body as well. I think I’ve read somewhere that they use multiple pieces of wood to make up the body.

And their maple cap is not as thick as a Gibson’s

 

(Actually I watched a Gibson how they build the LP guitar video and a lot (not all) of Gibson LP’s are also more than one piece of wood too.)

[pippy]

Thanks again everyone for chipping in.

 

Eracer_Team; Thanks, of course, and I'm sure you are correct : I think I read something similar about the way Epi used different bits of timber to build up an Epiphone LP body. I really am sure you are correct. But I still don't understand why this would result in a body the same weight as a weight-relieved Gibson unless there are, well; shall we say "gaps (non-specific)" in the body?

 

As far as the maple cap is concerned I respectfully suggest that the cap is the same thickness; it's just that Epi use a thin veneer of figured maple on top of the maple cap as decoration. In any case it would have no real bearing on the overall weight.

 

As always I may be totally wrong; in which case you have my most sincere apology in advance!

 

Unless they are using small bits of otherwise unusable lighter-weight mahogany (and where does that lot come from) to build up a lighter than normal solid-body then we're still trying to find out why an Epiphone (composite mahogany) body is the same weight as a Gibson weight-relieved body...

 

Unless they are weight-relieved.

 

Does this question make sense to anyone else or should I just keep on popping the tinnies?

[rockstar232007]

Thanks again everyone for chipping in.

 

Eracer_Team; Thanks' date=' of course, and I'm sure you are correct : I think I read something similar about the way Epi used different bits of timber to build up an Epiphone LP body. I really am sure you are correct. But I still don't understand why this would result in a body the same weight as a weight-relieved Gibson unless there are, well; shall we say "gaps (non-specific)" in the body?

 

As far as the maple cap is concerned I respectfully suggest that the cap is the same thickness; it's just that Epi use a thin veneer of figured maple on top of the maple cap as decoration. In any case it would have no real bearing on the overall weight.

 

As always I may be totally wrong; in which case you have my most sincere apology in advance!

 

Unless they are using small bits of otherwise unusable lighter-weight mahogany (and where does that lot come from) to build up a lighter than normal solid-body then we're still trying to find out why an Epiphone (composite mahogany) body is the same weight as a Gibson weight-relieved body...

 

Unless they are weight-relieved.

 

Does this question make sense to anyone else or should I just keep on popping the tinnies?

[/quote']Epi LPs are made from lower-grade woods than Gibson LPs.

 

Here what MOST Epi LPs consist of (wood wise):

 

- Multiple-piece (3-4), lower-grade mahogany backs/2 piece necks

- Carved alder tops w/maple veneers

 

The tops aren't necessarily thicker on the Epis, they're just sanded differently. Gibson LP tops are almost completely flat near the center of the "dish" (where the pickups are mounted), and the Epis are a little more rounded, because of the thickness (or lack thereof) of the veneer, and if they were sanded the same way, there is a good chance that the veneer would basically dissapear.

[pauline]

There are LP standards with mahagoni/alder bodys

 

http://www.thomann.de/gb/epiphone_les_paul_standard.htm

 

and LP studio

 

http://www.thomann.de/gb/epiphone_lpstudioeb.htm

 

Peter

[pippy]

Epi LPs are made from lower-grade woods than Gibson LPs.

 

Here what MOST Epi LPs consist of (wood wise):

 

- Multiple-piece (3-4)' date=' lower-grade mahogany backs/2 piece necks

- Carved alder tops w/maple veneers[/quote']

 

Thanks rockstar232007.

 

I hadn't heard of the Alder-top/Maple-veneer bit before.

 

But it still doesn't explain how Epi can possibly manufacture bodies made of 'solid' (albeit from multiple pieces of wood) mahogany the same weight as Gibson's Custom-Shop instruments unless the Epi's are also in some way weight-relieved.

 

Gibson claim that the extra $1,000 they charge is to pay for light and increasingly hard to come by one-piece solid mahogany blanks. Can Epiphone really re-create the same solid lump of body-wood to the same weight as a Gibson Custom-Shop work from odd-bits of 'light' mahogany for a tenth of the price?

 

[Hector Arcadius]

As far as I know, although Epi claims to use ''solid'' mahogany on their Lesters, they actually use a process of laminating their mahogany ''layers''. Without knowing much more, I think that there lies the ''secret'' for the weight-relief.

 

Since Gibson does not use laminated pieces, only solid ones, they had to figure out some alternative ways to address the weight problem.

 

And of course, different qualities of mahogany are used from each company. So, if you count in:

 

1. different qualities of wood

2. different manufacturing process

3. different location of plants ----> in wages

4. different production quantities (well, Epis are addressed to a more wide demographich, financially speaking)

5. The fact that Gibbies are rather overpriced because we are also paying for the very well respected brand-name

 

you can come down to different price per item.

 

 

 

Generally speaking, differences in prices or the absence of them, in the Gibson line, has puzzled me before. IMHO the double price tag between Studios and Standards does not make much sense. I was recently told by my local music store(that my buddy runs) that the Supreme (for which I initiated the thread) is only EUR 100 more expensive than a Custom that layed next to it. And you can see with your eyes that the supreme has sooooo much more work on it than the Custom. Go figure...

[pippy]

As far as I know' date=' although Epi claims to use ''solid'' mahogany on their Lesters, they actually use a process of laminating their mahogany ''layers''. Without knowing much more, I think that there lies the ''secret'' for the weight-relief.

 

1. different qualities of wood

2. different manufacturing process

[/quote']

 

Thanks Hector Arcadius.

 

I think those are the two most apposite points with regards my question.

 

I wish I paid more attention when I had my own Epi!

 

As far as I can recall, looking at the wood at the edge of the body and around it's contours, I had worked out the body was made from four individual lengths of mahogany, all about 4" (10cm) wide, running from top bout to bottom bout and parallel to the neck. The back was a two-piece book-matched veneer with centre-seam. There was no evidence of a 'pancake' style of body-build.

 

I didn't whip out the p-ups so can't tell if the four blocks were solid the whole length of the body or if just the edge bits were.

 

What I still can't understand is this;

 

1). Epiphone Les Pauls are pretty much the same weight as non-chambered Gibson Les Pauls.

2). Gibson Les Pauls (except Custom Shop) are weight-relieved or chambered.

3). Gibson says lighter mahogany is rarer. No-one seems to doubt the accuracy of this statement.

4). Solid (lighter) mahogany Gibson Les Pauls are several hundred dollars more expensive to cover the extra cost.

5). Even if Epi layers their wood, unless the wood is lighter (unlikely) the guitar should still be heavier than a Gibson.

6). Does Epi, therefore, use some other way of reducing weight in their bodies? Alder and maple woldn't hold the key.

 

Still baffled!

 

Doesn't anyone out there work in airport security!!!

[loneguitar]

Why all the threads about Epi in the Gibson forum?

check out this

http://forums.epiphone.com/

[pippy]

Why all the threads about Epi in the Gibson forum?

Did you bother to read The original post?

 

As in the original question?

 

Post #1?

 

I know I'd be better off asking on the Epi forum but I'm not a member there and it seems a bit much to register just to ask one question.

Seems to answer your question.

 

Thanks a lot for your input, loneguitar.

[Eracer_Team]

I was thinking the same thing as Loneguitar.

[loneguitar]

If it's such a hassle to log into the epi forum, why would you think we would care. The forum says Gibson les paul not epi. I read you're original post and still stand by my reply.

Do a search, it's really not that hard.......

[Hillybilly]

at least the OP owns a gibson. but loneguitar is right, whats the deal with all the Epi threads now? i just saw the one about putting a Bigsby on a Epi Lp-100.....

[BigKahune]

Time out - - -

 

I would respectfully point out that an Epiphone is a Gibson, in corporate terms. :-

 

Okay, back to senseless fighting and bloodshed - - -

[loneguitar]

Owned by Gibson, but inferior to Gibson.

That about states it all right BK

[Hillybilly]

Time out - - -

 

I would respectfully point out that an Epiphone is a Gibson' date=' in corporate terms.

 

Okay, back to senseless fighting and bloodshed - - -

 

 

 

true, but if this were a Chevy forum, would you post something about Saturn because they are both GM?

[SRV]

true' date=' but if this were a Chevy forum, would you post something about Saturn because they are both GM? :- [/quote']

 

Correction you would be in a GM forum in the chevy section and posting a thread about a Saturn. you see because gibson is the parent company and Epi the pet. Sooooo GM is the parent company and chevy and saturn the pet/pets. ergo you would be in the parent companies forum and posting a thread about a different brand then what is deemed by the section name.

[Murph]

I thought Obama owns G.M.?

 

And, I thought Saturn was gone, like Pontiac.

 

Epi is part of Gibson. Carry on pippy.....

 

Newbies are NOT allowed enforce sh!t......

[Hillybilly]

what are you talking about?

[dem00n]

I like Soft tacos?

You.

[Hillybilly]

me too, especially the taco supreme

[dem00n]

me too' date=' especially the taco supreme[/quote']

I hate how taco bell has a black taco...why not a white one? :)