Gibson's on line, and Fuller's Vintage Guitar

[dwolf]

I'm annoyed. I went to the Fuller's Vintage Guitar website last night--no Gibsons to be found. I was concerned that they'd quit carrying Gibson, but also had heard that Gibson has some restrictive policies about online sales, pricing, etc. Called Fuller's today--yep, they still carry Gibsons, but Gibson made them pull everything off the website. Plenty of Taylors, Fenders, Gretschs, etc., but from a casual look you'd assume they are out of the Gibson line. Now, a lot of us here on the forum know that Fullers has one of the best selections of Gibson acoustics, lots of custom shop stuff, limited lines, one-off custom art series, etc. Except, you can't see any of it. Not anymore. They are glad to help you, but you just can't see anything on line. And I am in no way critical of Fullers--they are truly stand up guys. I live in Galveston. Fuller's is in North Houston. It's maybe a 40-50 mile drive from my house. But Houston traffic is worse than LA traffic, at least around rush hour--which seems to be the better part of the day. So, for me a quick drive up is out of the question.

 

In the last 6 months I purchased a Custom Shop Hummingbird 12 string, and my buddy purchased a TV VOS Ltd J200 from Fullers--both purchases directly due to seeing the instruments on line on their website. In September 2009, I bought a Custom Shop Montana Gold 20th Anniversary J200 found, again, on-line at Sweetwater. I doubt any of those three guitars would have been purchased had they not been found on the internet. So, can someone explain how this policy makes any sense? Are they willing to give up sales? Does anyone from Gibson monitor this forum and if so, can they provide an explanation? For what it's worth, Sweetwater still has their Gibsons on line, but who knows for how long? Seems kind of unfair that some dealers are allowed to sell online, and others can't even post the product. What gives, Gibson?

Dwight

[KL]

Don't know . . . but I'd like to see and hear that Hummingbird 12 string.

[NevadaPic]

It's hard to figure. They have been my favorite online Gibson dealer since they were online. The apparent draconian measures of the Gibson corporation will be counterproductive. They don't seem to understand that we all don't have a '5-Star Dealer' within reach.

[dwolf]

KL, I wasn't playing that bird enough to justify keeping it, and I sold it. Tough decision. It was a really wonderful guitar. Wish now that I still had it. I got on a 12 string kick for a while there, and ended up buying a used Rainsong 12 string with a cutaway to use on stage. I found myself trying to do faux mandolin leads high on the neck and the cutaway turned out to be just the ticket. Plus that bird was just too nice to drag around to the places I end up playing. I really feel guilty about owning nice guitars that don't get played, plus, having to think about hurricane evacuations, puts an upper limit on the number of head in the heard for me. Sure was nice though. Played really, really easy with that 24 3/4" scale. Sounded so nice and warm, smelled good... I miss it. But the guy that bought it is playing it a lot, so I'm happy about that. He really loves it. Last time I checked Fuller's site, he had another one. I'd tell you to go online and check it out, but....

[Buc McMaster]

Dang ol' Gibson! That does suck. I live within 2 miles of Fuller's. Maybe I'll drop by there tommorrow and talk to 'em and see if they know what's up..........

[Hoss]

Yeah- I was talking with Fullers today myself. It's disappointing news. You'd think Gibson would allow Fullers to at least display the special custom ordered guitars that Fullers stocks.

 

For that matter, what's wrong with just listing inventory?

 

I also spoke with a longtime Gibson dealer in the Northwest who's terminating their agreement. I can't blame them; the rules keep changing for dealers, with the end result (I'm told) being more money up front and fewer guitar options.

 

I'll tell you, I'm getting more than a little worried about this company.

[bkharmony]

I'll tell you' date=' I'm getting more than a little worried about this company. [crying']

 

It seems like the moves of a desperate company.

 

They're getting ridiculous with their dealer requirements. And frankly, they need to be in as many shops as possible. They have lost TMA (Top of Mind Awareness), and Martin and Taylor are killing them, because they have no physical presence any more. It's baffling. There's a whole generation of players growing up now who don't really know much about Gibson acoustics.

 

But you know what? I'll never buy a new Gibson again. I learned my lesson. There are plenty of used ones out there, and if I want a Gibson, I'll go there. In the meantime, I'll be working on getting my BTO Taylor. Gibson doesn't want my business.

[Red 333]

Gibson is crazy sometimes. Why don't they just let all their dealers, irregardless of size, post their stock or sell on line? They're going to wind up with Musician's Friend/Guitar Center and Best Buy as their only dealers. Considering that Gibson acoustics in particular badly need to be set up when they're purchased, that is very unwise.

 

Red 333

[Guth]

Bummer, that totally blows. Too bad for Fullers and all the other good shops out there that are negatively impacted by Gibson's business practices.

 

Guth

[Paul E]

Wildwood Guitars is the only one that has Gibson Custon Acoustics on the web as far as I know.

[maninblack]

This is very troublesome. Is HJ as mad as some would have us believe? I'm itching to pull the trigger on a very expensive new Gibson. This kind of craziness gives me concern for the well being of the company. Am I going to pay extra $$ for a warranty and then see the grand old company go belly up?

 

I will never understand this policy decision. It put a strangle on my favorite dealer and after years of suffering they appear to have dropped Gibson.

[larryp58]

It's hard to understand. I mean, what are they going to accomplish by taking the guitars off-line? Aren't they in the business of building and SELLING instruments? In today's merchandising market, the internet is just as viable as walking in a store. The past couple of years, more merchandise was purchased over the internet than retail stores. Gibson has to be aware of this fact and accept it to remain in business. I think this practice will only hurt sales which will inturn drive prices up to ridiculous heights. ( Aaron Lewis Signature SJ, for example)

[sjl200]

They're going to wind up with Musician's Friend/Guitar Center and Best Buy as their only dealers.

 

Red I think you may have broken the code.

 

Volume is what Gibson thinks it gets from these big box dealers. I'm betting this "move" was called for by Big Box Boys. I have looked at all these web sites big box and 'home town dealers, at the inventory they offer. I bought from Fullers because of the service AND price.Fullers offered more for less. They beat GC,MF and BB and NO sales tax! Believe me these Big boxers got together and complained to Gibson about "prices being under cut" and Gibson listened. Thats my opinion. It would take ALL home town dealers to unite to speak with the same juice that those 3 big box vendors do. Gibson didn't do this in a vacuum.

[QuestionMark]

I know I wouldn't have purchased my most recent new Gibson had it not been for Fuller's listing it on their website. Since they were the only one listing it, simply said I wouldn't have bought it at all had they not had it listed...its not like I would have bought it from a different dealer (who I wouldn't have even known had it or existed.) Instead, I would have located a used on on the internet and purchased it...which, of course, would not have directly benefited any Gibson dealer or Gibson, but instead would have benefited the unregulated resale market (which Gibson doesn't seem to want to compete with against on one level, but then when it issues vintage reissues does seem to want to complete with.) I guess only Gibson knows if their strategy works. But, it sure does seem it is hurting some really sincere dealers who help promote the Gibson brand and legacy and connect with players. Plus, as I said, I wouldn't have bought my most recent new guitar had it not been for their promo, but instead would have gone outside the Gibson network to the resale market to buy a used one. If someone can figure the Gibson strategy out from a business perspective...let me know, I'm curious.

 

QM aka Jazzman Jeff

[bkharmony]

If someone can figure the Gibson strategy out from a business perspective...let me know' date=' I'm curious.[/quote']

 

I think you're giving them too much credit.

[Red 333]

I know I wouldn't have purchased my most recent new Gibson had it not been for Fuller's listing it on their website. Since they were the only one listing it' date=' simply said I wouldn't have bought it at all had they not had it listed...its not like I would have bought it from a different dealer (who I wouldn't have even known had it or existed.) QM aka Jazzman Jeff[/quote']

 

That's another great point. Fuller's commissions many exclusive models. If they are not able to advertise them to a wider audience via that new fangled interweb thingamagiggy, they will sell less of them. Then, they will order fewer replacements from Gibson. Who does that benefit?

 

Not only that, but it seems to me like Fuller's is in many ways Gibson's best marketing testbed. Ever notice how many FVG Exclusives go on to become production Gibsons? Gibson sees how many Fuller's sold, and gets feedback on what features players want via what Mike is requesting over and over, and then incorperates those desireable features into production models offered nationwide, or simply rebadges a FVG exclusive for general sale. Take the True Vintage series. It doesn't take a brain surgeon to see that these were clearly inspired by various exclusives Fuller's had been selling for some time.

 

Who established this Luddite internet policy, Orville Gibson? Get into the 21st Century, or even the late 20th, and give your independent, service-oriented dealers the ability to promote and sell your product. At the very least, they will sell your guitars PROPERLY SET UP.

 

What's the biggest beef with Gibson guitars? Inconsistent quality, right? Well, just take a look at the number of returned Gibsons on Musician's Friend right now (catagorized as "Used"). Do you really think the bulk of them them had a serious quality control problem, or didn't sound good? No, the majority have nothing wrong with them. A few swipes of a nut file and some sandpaper will make them play perfectly. But a great majority of people don't know that or don't have the experience to set up their own guitar. To many of these people, a Gibson is the fufillment of a life-long dream, and many have toiled long and hard to save enough for it. These people end up bitter and disappointed, and fill the internet with the worst kind of word-of-mouth a company needs.

 

Sellers like Musician's Friend have their place. They have a huge selection, fair prices, friendly service, and good return and exchange policies. I buy from them all the time. That is, I get a great discount on a guitars that were returned to them because they were not set up. If I were going to pay anything close to the regular, advertised selling price, I would not buy from them, but would (and have) bought from an outfit like Fuller's, that will ensure my guitar be playable. Unless Gibson does a better job of making their guitars (both electric and acoustic) silky-playable when they leave the factory (and they are NOT--several of my last Gibson acoustics have had horrendous, virtually incomplete nut work in particular), then the favored status given Musician's Friend, Guitar Center, Best Buy and the like will come to haunt them.

 

Red 333

Big Gibson fan, now disappointed

[jgwoods]

I like Fullers and have bought two Gibsons from them, but I wouldn't say them set them up well, or at all really. One came with very old strings, one really needed a new nut, neither showed any evidence of having been adjusted in any way.

I still like them because they have nice custom models and they will deal with you fairly on price.

[jannusguy]

if this is true, it's an incredibly stupid move. i have spent 10K on gibsons with fullers. they are my preferred seller. oh well, i guess i have enough gibsons now anyway.

[Guth]

i guess i have enough gibsons now anyway.

 

I suppose that more or less sums it up for me as well.

 

I've spent a fair chunk of change on new Gibsons in my life (including one purchased from Fullers), but the one that I'm the happiest with and that I currently own was purchased used. The way things are shaping up, I doubt that I'll buy another new Gibson. I don't do business with places like Guitar Center or Best Buy or (insert large chain/internet only business name here). Without independent brick & mortar stores selling their instruments, Gibson will lose other individuals like me. I realize that there are plenty of folks who have no problem with GC, BB, etc., and that's fine - everyone is entitled to spend their money the way they see fit, and I don't have a problem with that.

 

As far as concerns over warranty work go - with the way things are going, I can't really imagine myself sending a guitar back to Gibson for warranty work anyway.

 

I'm sure that I'll always remain interested in checking out interesting used Gibsons when I see them, but I remain content with the Gibson I do own. So I'll sit back and watch the whole thing play out with Gibson catering to Big Box dealers and releasing instruments like the Aaron Lewis signature model with mixed emotions stretching for curiosity to disgust, but certainly without panic.

 

Guth

[Guth]

What's the biggest beef with Gibson guitars? Inconsistent quality' date=' right? Well, just take a look at the number of returned Gibsons on Musician's Friend right now (catagorized as "Used"). Do you really think the bulk of them them had a serious quality control problem, or didn't sound good? No, the majority have nothing wrong with them. A few swipes of a nut file and some sandpaper will make them play perfectly.[/quote']

 

While the majority of the folks on this forum would agree with you, I don't. The majority of Gibson acoustics I've played were a tonal disappointment (to put it mildly). I'm not talking about guitars that weren't set up properly or simply needed new strings. These guitars were duds, void of any energy or life (and yes, I do realize the impact that a good setup can have). Your average shopper out for a day at the local Best Buy might purchase such an instrument because they look great and carry the Gibson name. "Hey if it costs this much, it must be good, right?" While a more discerning customer is easily put off by such guitars. This scenario would certainly explain Gibson's recent strategy.

 

I realize that many on this forum are serious Gibson enthusiasts, and I mean no disrespect. I can't imagine anyone here purchasing a guitar that they're not happy with. I simply am offering up the point of view of someone thinks that we are currently living in the age when some amazing acoustic guitars are being built by many different companies/individual luthiers and have owned/played many of them. From a tonal perspective, sometimes Gibson manages to hit one out of the park. Those remain the guitars that catch my attention - no other acoustic guitar out there sounds like a great Gibson. That's why I love places like Fullers, you can play a whole bunch of Gibsons to potentially find "the one". But from what I've seen, much of the time Gibson manages to simply build instruments that look great hanging on the wall. From my perspective, those are the guitars you are seeing returned in large quantities.

 

Guth

[Hoss]

Well-- this may all be another Tempest in a Teakettle, as they say.

 

Fullers is planning on being back on line--they need to dot a few i's and cross a couple t's.

[jannusguy]

Well-- this may all be another Tempest in a Teakettle' date=' as they say.

 

Fullers is planning on being back on line--they need to dot a few i's and cross a couple t's.[/size']

 

hope you're right about this. i trust those guys.

[Red 333]

Well-- this may all be another Tempest in a Teakettle' date=' as they say.

 

Fullers is planning on being back on line--they need to dot a few i's and cross a couple t's.[/size']

 

Oh.

 

Never mind.

 

Red 333

[Guth]

Fullers is planning on being back on line--they need to dot a few i's and cross a couple t's.

 

For Fullers' sake, I certainly hope that is the case. They have an amazing number of Gibson available for sale, and anyone that can, should go visit their shop. However, I'm sure that their internet presence provides a good percentage of their income.

 

Regardless, I still stand by my statements in this thread regarding Gibson's strategy and the way they are treating their dealers.

 

All the best,

Guth

[sfden1]

Glad to her that Fullers is planning to get back on line with it's Gibson inventory. Hope that happens. Lots of interesting comments in this thread, most of which, I'm sad to say, I agree with.