correct thumb position

[dkennedy96]

my current guitar teacher told me that it is better to play with your thumb behind the neck. before that I played kind of like hendrix with my thumb hanging out over the top and my previous guitar teachers have never really seemed to care.

 

which style would probably be best for playing stuff like rock and some new wave?

[Flight959]

My guitar teacher used to say the same thing..... Whatever works for you man is whats important...

[DAS44]

My thumb hangs out on top. I'm more comfortable that way so thats how I'll do it.

[deepblue]

Jimis thumb was like a 5th finger. It was long and skinny...kinda creepy actually.

[milod]

Okay, here's where some "formal training" and "visual apprenticeships" may be different.

 

I was just watching a Chet Atkins videos the other night. Chet would sometimes wrap his thumb around to fret bass strings and sometimes he'd hold the darned neck as if he were a highly-trained classical guitarist.

 

When I was teaching, I'd push the "keep the thumb on the back of the neck" even though I got told I wasn't doing it enough myself when I actually got a cupla "master classes" one week a thousand years ago from a famous classical player/teacher. Of course I wasn't. "You played too much bluegrass," he said. "Yupper," I agreed.

 

Bottom line, I think, is that the "right way," especially for doing basic chording up and down the neck, or for classical or lots of other stuff, you're best off with the thumb in "classical" style behind the neck. That's for barre chords, etc.

 

But then there are things that don't work that way. So whatta you do? Well, as I said, there was Chet with his thumb reaching around the neck.

 

My opinion is that one first should learn the "thumb on the back of the neck" positioning. Main reason for that is to maintain proper wrist alignment so you don't complain, as we've heard here recently, of pain in the wrist.

 

Then, once you've created a psychophysical "path" for your hand with proper angles, it won't make much difference what you do with the thumb, it will position itself with what's best for what you're playing.

 

I'll add that I ain't no "talent," but I pick a lot and I don't have wrist problems from it after some years.

 

<edit> I just looked at my avatar, and there's my thumb sticking up. BUT: Note that the index finger and wrist have roughly the identical angles to each other and the forearm (all on the same plane) as if I had the thumb behind the neck. That's what I'm talking about. I've seen too many "thumb around" folks, even some "thumb on back" folks who contort their wrists something terrible. <grin>

m

[chewy60]

whatever's most comfortable to you. yeah, the classical positioning is thumb behind the neck but if you like wrapping your hand around the neck, so be it....

[stevef]

Fly in the ointment?

[milod]

Not really. The thumb is, as I recall, doing the fretting and note that it's pretty well on a plane with the forearm and the muscles that control it. That is, for that style of technique, fairly correct in terms of kinesiology.

 

m

[NeoConMan]

Fly in the ointment?

Ritchie Havens?

 

Looks like a Guild, a brand he's known for.

[NeoConMan]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Maybe their music teacher told them to pick a cool name - like The Thumbs.

 

www.citypaper.com/music/review.asp?rid=7212

[milod]

Ritchie Havens?

 

Looks like a Guild, a brand he's known for.

 

============

 

Neo... yupper, my thought exactly. And... heavy on open tunings.

 

m

[zigzag]

My instructor recommended I play with my thumb behind the neck. After not playing that way for over 30 years, it was tough, but it only took about a week to feel comfortable. I have short stubby fingers, so putting my thumb in back put my fingers in better position to grab chords. My guitar is also in the same position sitting and standing, and from that angle, putting the thumb in back is more natural. There are times when I fret base notes with my thumb, and these days, I just let it go where it wants.

[milod]

Ziggy...

 

One of the guys with the most interesting technique I wish I'd been around more to emulate was a fellow I met when I was 19-20. Ex live radio musician. Played "ragtime" 5-string banjo and guitar. Super short stubby fingers. Most of the time his thumb was behind the neck, either guitar or banjo. The fingers just flew. They also were so strong that with medium-y strings on a guitar and on the banjo, sometimes his thumb actually wasn't even touching the neck.

 

But as I've mentioned before, as I recall his hand position always was with the index finger and forearm on a plane.

 

m

[NeoConMan]

I cheat on a full G chord.

Other than that, rarely does my thumb see the fretboard.

[saturn]

I guess I have bad "technique", but the guy behind me is doing it right

 

[milod]

Saturn...

 

Actually ... forget about where your thumb is; note that your index finger is in a plane with your forearm. No matter what a technical instructor may tell you about playing, from the perspective of what's healthy for your hand and wrist, I don't see anything wrong.

 

The guy behind you, otoh, has his index finger torqued downward. That is bringing some pressure to the wrist where it really shouldn't be.

 

m

[NeoConMan]

Ever notice the bass players with the thing pulled up under their chin?

Arms askew, elbows out, wrist doubled?

 

 

Seemed more prominent in the jazz circles.

[mcmurray]

The correct way is to use both techniques. For pentatonic bendy stuff (especially licks that favor your index and ring finger), put your thumb over the neck. For scalar/rhythm stuff, put your thumb behind the neck. It's not uncommon to see players chop and change between the two many times during a tune.

 

There are a lot of jazz and classical cork sniffing teachers that won't allow you to put your thumb over the neck, simply because they've never played a pentatonic run or bent a string in their life. Don't listen to them.

 

Likewise there's a lot of blues players that have never broken out of the pentatonic shape that always have their thumb over the neck.

[milod]

Mac...

 

Yeah...

 

I guess my own concern on this issue is, in ways, far more along the lines of maintaining proper hand position from the point of view of the joints, tendons, etc., as opposed to "correct playing technique," whatever that might be.

 

I've looked at some pix of me playing over the past ... uhhhhh ... few years. <grin> I'm not all that good or talented, but I note that my index finger is almost always in a plane with the forearm - which means the tendons ain't chafing away.

 

So ... it doesn't hurt. I love playing - and it hurts me to think of guys who are bringing to our notice in this and other forums how their wrists, shoulders, whatever, are hurting when they play.

 

My contention is that no matter what style you're playing, or how you control the strings over the neck, the long-term important thing is not damaging the bod so you keep enjoying playing guitar.

 

One does that through a correct geometry of technique - whatever it is.

 

m

[zigzag]

The correct way is to use both techniques. For pentatonic bendy stuff (especially licks that favor your index and ring finger)' date=' put your thumb over the neck. For scalar/rhythm stuff, put your thumb behind the neck. It's not uncommon to see players chop and change between the two many times during a tune.

 

There are a lot of jazz and classical cork sniffing teachers that won't allow you to put your thumb over the neck, simply because they've never played a pentatonic run or bent a string in their life. Don't listen to them.

 

Likewise there's a lot of blues players that have never broken out of the pentatonic shape that always have their thumb over the neck.[/quote']

 

I have seen instructional videos that for vibrato that moves the string vertically up and down the fret, the thumb is placed on top or over the top of the neck to give leverage to the wrist which is used to bend the string creating the vibrato effect, similar to the BB King approach. I noticed that when Clapton plays (and Clapton is certainly no master of technique), his vibrato is more from the classical, violin technique of rolling the finger tip horizonally behind the fret.

 

Most jazz musicians don't play with much vibrato.

[mcmurray]

I have seen instructional videos that for vibrato that moves the string vertically up and down the fret' date=' the thumb is placed on top or over the top of the neck to give leverage to the wrist which is used to bend the string creating the vibrato effect, similar to the BB King approach. I noticed that when Clapton plays (and Clapton is certainly no master of technique), his vibrato is more from the classical, violin technique of rolling the finger tip horizonally behind the fret.

 

Most jazz musicians don't play with much vibrato.

[/quote']

 

Bingo. For vibrato (not the classical kind) one needs to put their thumb over the neck.

[mcmurray]

My contention is that no matter what style you're playing' date=' or how you control the strings over the neck, the long-term important thing is not damaging the bod so you keep enjoying playing guitar.

[/quote']

 

Agreed Milod.

 

I like to examine the technique of guys that have put thousands upon thousands of man hours into the instrument. The way I see it, if they can make it look easy after all that work, then adopting their technique is not likely to cause injuries. The golden rule when working on technique is: "if it hurts, stop".

 

I'll post some videos of players changing their thumb position as they play when I get home from work so you guys can see what I'm talking about.

[FirstMeasure]

I'd rather use my Thumb, thanks. Five digits on the neck. Of course when I need to stretch I can always put my thumb on the back of the neck.

 

And like Milod is saying, your tendons can't be binding up in your tunnels. No matter where you like to keep your thumb.

[saturn]

Yeah, it's really like Milod and mcmurray said. If I'm playing classical or attempting something like "shredding" I'll definately have my thumb behind the neck. Basically anytime a long stretch is needed, over the top just won't work.

[mcmurray]

Watch Guthrie as he moves his thumb position to suit what he's playing. For bending in particular, his thumb hooks all the way over the neck to act as a pivot, at other times when stretching is required it's right behind the neck;

 

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