Oh no ....more Tonerite stuff!!!!!!!!

[passthej45]

Hey I just got a great idea...why wouldn't a guitar manufacturer use the tone rite at the factory before releasing the guitar? F'r instance ...like all Gibson TV models could spend the last month before shipping, hooked up to a tone -rite.............they all leave the factory playing like guitars with years of play under their frets......this could have been the SECRET WEAPON...what do ya'll think???

[Deadgrateful]

Probably because some people like the idea of playing in there guitars naturally. And also because it requires frequent (not every day but as I understand it you have to use it more than once) use to be truly effective.

[davenumber2]

I have heard that some of the small boutique builders are doing this now. In a factory setting I imagine it would slow down production and therefore, slow down the process of making money. This is still a business, let's not forget.

[SweetMarie]

Maybe local instrument dealers should look into stocking them to rent or lease to interested parties...

[onewilyfool]

I have heard that some of the small boutique builders are doing this now. In a factory setting I imagine it would slow down production and therefore' date=' slow down the process of making money. This is still a business, let's not forget.[/quote']

 

There are some small luthier guitar builders who do use these....

[jgwoods]

I think they don't use them because they don't work.

[suburude63]

I think they don't use them because they don't work.

 

 

Wanna bet !:-

[jgwoods]

I might bet- but first we will need to establish what measurable data proves that a guitar has "improved tone"- that's what the Tonerite website says happens.

It's not measurable.

To those who like them best wishes.

I am skeptical, but I don't think you are an idiot if you buy it, try it, and like it.

[suburude63]

I might bet- but first we will need to establish what measurable data proves that a guitar has "improved tone"- that's what the Tonerite website says happens.

It's not measurable.

To those who like them best wishes.

I am skeptical' date=' but I don't think you are an idiot if you buy it, try it, and like it. [/quote']

 

"I am skeptical, but I don't think you are an idiot if you buy it, try it, and like it. "

 

Well thank you for not thinking I or anybody else is an Idiot for buying or useing it !

 

Id like to ask a question here . If you , me and a couple others after playing a couple very good guitars for years sat down and through the door in a room a person brought a guitar do you think you coulkd judge if it was a good sounding guitar or a bad sounding guitar? :)

 

My answer would be a resounding "YES"

 

So I think the use of the Tonerite is very measurable. It has been measured by many Symphony players in my town who have I might say very good ears !

[KL]

There are some small luthier guitar builders who do use these....

 

Do you know of any examples?

[jgwoods]

"I am skeptical' date=' but I don't think you are an idiot if you buy it, try it, and like it. "

 

Well thank you for not thinking I or anybody else is an Idiot for buying or useing it !

 

Id like to ask a question here . If you , me and a couple others after playing a couple very good guitars for years sat down and through the door in a room a person brought a guitar do you think you coulkd judge if it was a good sounding guitar or a bad sounding guitar?

 

My answer would be a resounding "YES"

 

So I think the use of the Tonerite is very measurable. It has been measured by many Symphony players in my town who have I might say very good ears !

 

I don't care how many symphony players think they hear a difference. That is subjective. Tone is subjective. A bunch of opinions one way or the other doesn't make the case. And I still don't think you are an idiot... (emoticon to make everything ok)

[Paul E]

I have been following the thread about Tonerite on this forum and a few others (UMGF, Collins, Madolin Cafe, & AGF). After reading all the threads I've come to the conclusion that most who have tried the Tonerite thinks that it works and is worth the money. Some who have no experience with the Tonerite thinks it's snake oil. Others are just skeptical. Tim Mc Knight is a luthier who thinks it works to open up a guitar. I bought one and tried it on my J-45RW. I didn't play this guitar all that often maybe once a week for an hour or two. I put it on the tonerite for 72 hrs. and I know it gave great volume and more depth to the guitar. Is it subjective ? You bet, but that is the same reasoning we use when we buy a guitar. Now to try it on a few of my other guitars.

[suburude63]

I don't care how many symphony players think they hear a difference. That is subjective. Tone is subjective. A bunch of opinions one way or the other doesn't make the case. And I still don't think you are an idiot...:) (emoticon to make everything ok)

 

 

C Mon man ! Give me a break here! "tone is subjective"

 

Are you actually saying if you and I were sitting in a room and someone played a 46 D 18 and then they played a 2010 Yamaha you coudnt tell the difference ! If your saying that you are absolutely right you will never tell the difference of a before and after with a Tonerite.

[jgwoods]

C Mon man ! Give me a break here! "tone is subjective"

 

Are you actually saying if you and I were sitting in a room and someone played a 46 D 18 and then they played a 2010 Yamaha you coudnt tell the difference ! If your saying that you are absolutely right you will never tell the difference of a before and after with a Tonerite. :P

 

 

Nope. that's not what I am saying. Try taking a room full of very nice guitars and a bunch of good players- see if they all agree that one is best. They will like different ones for different reasons, maybe because it suits the music they play, maybe it fills that spot in their memory bank of what a great guitar sounds like. It's not the difference between good and bad, heck there might be some very fine 2010 Yamahas out there that will sound better than a D-18 in bad shape. It's not the difference between good and better. It's the reason there's Gibson and Martin- different strokes for different folks. Both good.

Tone is subjective- I'm not giving you a break. If it is objective give me the measures and the numbers.

 

If someone want to do an accurate study of what the Tonerite does I will read it.

Please don't be insulted. This isn't that important and I don't even know you.

[Murph]

I like this thread.

 

:P

[62burst]

Maybe something like this would help measure a couple of aspects of the

change in the guitar's sound with a Tonerite or other changes as well.

 

http://www.me.gatech.edu/mechatronics_lab/Projects/Fall00/group3/mechanic.htm

 

Might be useful to play some single-notes & measure changes in note decay,

or dB change; it could give a uniform

pick strike. Real rudimentary stuff. Opened-up qualities like overtones

might be measureable, too. Tone is more than just those things. A big gray

area, but that's part of the appeal.

 

The very nature of something as intangible as music is going open itself

up for controversy when talking about the mechanics behind the sound. It's

a compliment to those who feel strongly enough about it that they want to

dissect it.

 

At times, there are those who only want to decorate, inlay,

or engrave their instruments, some will want to know what is responsible for making

their instrument sound the way it does, and at times when all of this gets

to be too much, there's always "just play the damn thing".

[dhanners623]

All I know is I've tried my ToneRite on two of my three acoustics (so far) and both sounded noticeably better afterward. And I know there are plenty of people who have never tried the ToneRite who are more than willing to tell me it is all in my head. (In fact, on another forum, one anonymous poster called me "foolish" and said I was an "incredibly mediocre musician" whose opinion he wouldn't trust anyway.)

 

I'm beginning to see why ToneRite owners keep their thoughts to themselves.

[suburude63]

Nope. that's not what I am saying. Try taking a room full of very nice guitars and a bunch of good players- see if they all agree that one is best. They will like different ones for different reasons' date=' maybe because it suits the music they play, maybe it fills that spot in their memory bank of what a great guitar sounds like. It's not the difference between good and bad, heck there might be some very fine 2010 Yamahas out there that will sound better than a D-18 in bad shape. It's not the difference between good and better. It's the reason there's Gibson and Martin- different strokes for different folks. Both good.

Tone is subjective- I'm not giving you a break. If it is objective give me the measures and the numbers.

 

If someone want to do an accurate study of what the Tonerite does I will read it.

Please don't be insulted. This isn't that important and I don't even know you. [/quote']

 

I am not insulted by any means but I know this for a fact there are no 2010 Yamahas out there that sound as good as a 40s

D 18

 

Can you tell when a guitar opens up ? The difference between one right out of the case and one thats been played for an hour or 2 ?

 

Well I can .

 

Is there anyone else out there who can ? If there are such people with such ears then a Tonerite is for you ! Because it opens them up.

 

 

If you cant tell that difference then Tonerite is Not for you.

[suburude63]

Nope. that's not what I am saying. Try taking a room full of very nice guitars and a bunch of good players- see if they all agree that one is best. They will like different ones for different reasons' date=' maybe because it suits the music they play, maybe it fills that spot in their memory bank of what a great guitar sounds like. It's not the difference between good and bad, heck there might be some very fine 2010 Yamahas out there that will sound better than a D-18 in bad shape. It's not the difference between good and better. It's the reason there's Gibson and Martin- different strokes for different folks. Both good.

Tone is subjective- I'm not giving you a break. If it is objective give me the measures and the numbers.

 

If someone want to do an accurate study of what the Tonerite does I will read it.

Please don't be insulted. This isn't that important and I don't even know you. [/quote']

 

 

Have you ever used a Tonerite? If not how can you even make a statement about one ?

[Murph]

What if two identical new Gibsons were compaired after 1 had a year of gigging, and the other just used the tonerite?

 

How would that work out?

 

[dhanners623]

What if two identical new Gibsons were compaired after 1 had a year of gigging' date=' and the other just used the tonerite?

 

How would that work out?

 

 

I'm not sure there is such a thing as "two identical Gibsons."

[Buc McMaster]

I'm beginning to see why ToneRite owners keep their thoughts to themselves.

 

Yes, now you see, David. It is fine with me if some choose not to believe in the effectiveness of the ToneRite device. It is not okay with me when they react as you have found some do.

 

While I do agree that the effects of a ToneRite unit on any guitar are subjective, it is undeniable that said subjectivity is in the ear of the beholder. If I have listened to and know the tone of my guitar prior to treatment, it is the same pair of ears that detect tonal change after treatment. Another player who was not familiar with my guitar's tonal qualities prior to treatment would certainly have no point of reference, and simply be able to say it was a nice sounding guitar. Subjectivity carries a bit more weight when it is the same pair of ears making the call.

[dhanners623]

Yes' date=' now you see, David. It is fine with me if some choose not to believe in the effectiveness of the ToneRite device. It is not okay with me when they react as you have found some do.

 

While I do agree that the effects of a ToneRite unit on any guitar are subjective, it is undeniable that said subjectivity is in the ear of the beholder. If I have listened to and know the tone of my guitar prior to treatment, it is the same pair of ears that detect tonal change after treatment. Another player who was not familiar with my guitar's tonal qualities prior to treatment would certainly have no point of reference, and simply be able to say it was a nice sounding guitar. Subjectivity carries a bit more weight when it is the same pair of ears making the call.

 

 

[/quote']

 

Your earlier admonition aside, I was kind of unprepared for the reaction I got from some quarters. Most folks seemed curious about the results, but there were a few who just let loose with insults right and left. Anonymously, of course.

[jgwoods]

I am not insulted by any means but I know this for a fact there are no 2010 Yamahas out there that sound as good as a 40s

D 18

 

Can you tell when a guitar opens up ? The difference between one right out of the case and one thats been played for an hour or 2 ?

 

Well I can .

 

Is there anyone else out there who can ? If there are such people with such ears then a Tonerite is for you ! Because it opens them up.

 

 

If you cant tell that difference then Tonerite is Not for you.

 

Yes I can tell when a guitar opens up.

I can tell with each of my instruments and I know how weather effects how long it takes. My 1917 Gibson A4 mandolin needs waking up if I don't play it for a week, and it takes about 20 minutes for it to lose the muffled sound, then it gets better still for the next hour or so. My fiddles take a half hour to get going, my banjos are pretty much ready to go all the time, so is my Graphite topped Martin. My J-185 doesn't seem to sleep at all, always the same whether I store it a while or not. My new Redline is getting plenty of play and stays lively but it is so new it doesn't really even know it's a guitar yet and it's tuning varies more than any other with the weather. It's the old Gibby mandolin that demonstrates the concepts of sleeping, and opening up more than any others.

 

You don't know for a fact that there are no 2010 Yamahas that are out there that sound as good as a 40s D 18- you haven't played them all of either brand and it is your opinion , but you state it as fact.

 

Given that we are on the Gibson forum- probably because we can discern the fine qualities of Gibsons and their tone- I figure we all have a fairly good idea of what good tone is for us.

 

I know what I like and I know it when I hear it. The most I can imagine a Tonerite would do for me is the same I do when I warm up, and my fingers need the warmup more than the guitar. It takes me and my guitar, banjo, mandolin, fiddle 20 minutes to get going. All the Tonerite would do- if it did anything- would be to warm up the guitar for my cold fingers. Not a task worth doing.

 

I don't want to come off a one creating division- I don't think we are the Tonerite=Good vs the Tonerite=Bad( ineffective, whatever) guys. We are all interested, we all want the best from our instruments, some think the Tonerite is a help, others ain't so sure. I don't dismiss you or your claims for it, but I will remain skeptical until more evidence comes my way. End of discussion for me.

[Jack6849]

To Dhanner623,

 

Please don't allow the rudeness of others to keep you from sharing your opinions about the ToneRite, or any other topic you find of interest, with the forum. For me, the tactic of rudeness shows the opinion of the writer to be of as little value as their thoughtlessness. The minute I read a rude comment, I automatically discount the opinion of the contributor.

 

Regarding the opinions you've shared to date about the ToneRite, I thank you for them, and I can't see what motive there would be for convincing yourself that a $150 dollar device was worthwhile if you really couldn't hear a tonal improvement. I've read a lot of positive opinions about the ToneRite from a variety of builders, guitar players and other musicians. It seems odd to believe they're all crazy or wrong.

 

When I see rudeness, it says a lot more to me about the person being rude than the point their trying to make. Thanks for your opinions, and the opinions of contributors like Buc, whose agenda is obviously to make the Forum a place of interest and support.

 

Jack6849