genuine and fake epiphone???????? that's the question

[Arctic]

In the last periods i see a lot of people that don't want to buy an epiphone,cause they are afraid to buy a fake epiphone,on the net there are a lot of fakes epiphone from china,is there a safe way to differentiate a genuine one from a fake one? these chinese copy every single detail ](*,)

[JayGLongBeach]

One of the safest ways to avoid a fake Epiphone is making your

purchase from a reputable dealer...

in today's market, lots of reputable dealers will match online prices, etc...

so for the most part you can get a good deal...

[brad1]

First of all, compared to fake gibsons, there are not a lot of fake epis. There are way more fake gibsons. Higher profit margin. Secondly, if a lot of people are afraid to buy an epiphone because it might be fake, than wouldn't that logic apply to ALL guitars? All guitars could be fake. So I think JG has the right idea. Buy from a reputable dealer. I personally would never buy a guitar I could not play first. But perhaps that's just me. And lastly, if the chinese could actually "copy every single detail", than wouldn't it be just as good as a "real" one?

I think a lot of common sense applies here. If you want to buy a good used epiphone guitar, buy it from someone you trust. Buyer beware!!!

[Vic Flick]

In the last periods i see a lot of people that don't want to buy an epiphone' date='cause they are afraid to buy a fake epiphone,on the net there are a lot of fakes epiphone from china,is there a safe way to differentiate a genuine one from a fake one? these chinese copy every single detail [/quote']

 

Watch out for LP Customs & Zakk Wyldes. If they're coming out of China, avoid like the plague. Real low prices, the same stock photos used on multiple eBay auctions, private feedback are all things that should raise your suspicions.

 

One tell tale sign used to be the diamond inlay on the headstock of the LP customs. It was too big, the bottom of it was often covered by the truss rod cover, and it was crooked more often than not. I don't know if they've gotten better over the years. The serial # had one digit missing, but I've seen newer fakes with proper #s recently.

 

First of all' date=' compared to fake gibsons, there are not a lot of fake epis. There are way more fake gibsons. Higher profit margin. Secondly, if a lot of people are afraid to buy an epiphone because it might be fake, than wouldn't that logic apply to ALL guitars? All guitars could be fake. [/quote']

 

Not necessarily. The fake Epiphones originated because there was no Epiphone distributor in Korea (even though they were made there). There was a huge demand for Epiphones in Korea and that demand was filled by counterfeits. Here's an article from the Epiphone web site:

 

Fake Epiphones

 

Now the counterfeiters have found a new home on the 'Bay and some very funny web sites like this:

 

Muso Land

 

If you notice, there's not a lot of difference in price between a "Gibson" & and "Epiphone". If you think about it, there's less scrutiny if you're selling an Epiphone than there would be if you were selling a Gibson. Ordering a $600 Epiphone from China for $300 might seem reasonable, you figure they're made there and you're buying them direct, maybe it's legit. But buying a $2500 USA made Gibson LP Supreme for $300 from China makes no sense at all.

 

And yes, anything can be copied, look at their Gretsch and Rickenbackers. The problem with them is that anyone with a little knowledge would recognize them as frauds. The LPs look pretty good in the photos.

 

Bottom line, BEWARE!!!

[jairic]

I actually came across a "fake" Gibson LP in a small shop a while ago. The owner was forthright about it. He said he had taken it in trade and even though it was spot on it wasn't the real deal. If I recall right he was asking $250-$300 for it. The moral of the story is, beware of extremely low prices and not everyone will be as genuine as the gentleman I had the good fortune of dealing with. A due amount diligence is a buyer responsibility now days. So anytime you see an Epi/Gibby that is too good to be true regarding price, it probably is. Not to mention all the folks here that would be more than happy to assist you on a judgement call.

[jcwillow777]

A friend of mine knew of a music store, a very large one but not a chain, that had a fake Gibson that they had take in on trade. They sold it. Gibson found out and they are no longer selling Gibson guitars. Dealers should know better. I'm sure that was a sale they will regret forever. However, I would say that 99% of reputable dealers won't be selling fakes. They want your business and they want to be Gibson dealers.

[Lerxst1281733995]

if a lot of people are afraid to buy an epiphone because it might be fake' date=' than wouldn't that logic apply to ALL guitars? All guitars [i']could [/i]be fake.

 

I was just reading an article somewhere about fake Dillion guitars! Which is kind of ironic, since Dillion is like the king of Korean-made lawsuit guitars... (pretty good quality from what I hear, thought..) Most of them are coming out of Canada and the quality is terrible... Which is what you can expect when you make a copy of a copy, right?

[Suho]

I used to have a Korean made Epiphone that was without serial number. I bought it when I lived in Korea. I got the story from the sales rep, but I think they fall under a slightly different category in my eyes, in that they came from the Samick Epi factory. Now, they were the factory 'rejects,' if you will. Although only on the most technical level, I do see some distinction, especially as has been said, that there was no in-country distributor, despite making them there. Not the best business decision, me-thinks.

 

One detail that I think often gets overlooked with the counterfeit Epis shipped straight from China is the sticker on the back of the headstock that claims the guitar is inspected in the USA (or something like that). Yeah, right!

[tom nair]

I will go along with the others. Get your ax from a good dealer.

[diceman]

I'll vouch for Suho's comments and add a second to that - I was stationed in Korea - and it was pretty easy to get your hands on reject Epi's at a huge savings through some reputable Korean shops. I got an LP Custom that had a small spray imperfection on the binding ($300), and an LP Goth that had a rough paint spot on the back (under $200). I also got my hands on an Epi Casino that had a pickup screw that had missed the bracing and was stripped ($300). The Goth had no SN, the LP Custom had a bad SN, and the Casino is totally legit. I also got my hands on an LP Goth with a Standard neck that I gave to my brother - this was right around the time that production moved to China, and I'm assuming that the guys at the factory just slapped together their leftover bodies and necks and sold them under the table to local shops. I have no doubt that all of them are Epiphone OEM produced guitars (just like any of the other Korean Epis were - mine were all from Unsung factory), and my shop here in the US checked out the Custom from the inside out while doing a pickup upgrade for me. The factory rejects and out the back door Epis are authentic Epiphone guitars.

 

The fake Zakks and Customs that are coming out of China are surely fakes, and I would obviously avoid them.

 

As a few others have mentioned - I always play my guitars before I buy them, shops will almost always match online prices, and its always nice to have a brick and mortar dealer to take care of your guitar down the road for setups and other work you may need done. Much better to have purchased the guitar there than to just stroll in and say "got this from Ebay - I need a setup done."

[Dave]

I agree that a guitar is best purchased where you can try it out. For me, a guitar is a personal thing. It has to feel right, play right, and have that certain nuance of sound. And, not every guitar made by the same manufacturer will satisfy that subtle neccessity. Amps are one thing. The axe is another.

 

I'm concerned about the future of Mom and Pop music stores. Those who can support the school music business will be here for a long time. I talked at length with the owner of a music store in town where I purchased most of my guitars over the years about this recently. They quit carrying Gibson many years ago because they were required to by $95,000 worth of guitars to remain a dealer. The "package" included some of every model, most of which would hang on the wall until they became relics. That package is now up to around a quarter million bucks, just to remain a dealer. It's obvious that Moms and Pops are not wanted in a world where large online retailers are the preferred outlet.

 

The owner said that price matching is not a problem and that he could maintain the business just selling horns, violins. and drums to school music programs. Another dealer friend told me that the local music school director wouldn't let him in the door. He will be out of business in a few years.

[Dave]

I agree that a guitar is best purchased where you can try it out. For me, a guitar is a personal thing. It has to feel right, play right, and have that certain nuance of sound. And, not every guitar made by the same manufacturer will satisfy that subtle neccessity. Amps are one thing. The axe is another.

 

I'm concerned about the future of Mom and Pop music stores. Those who can support the school music business will be here for a long time. I talked at length with the owner of a music store in town where I purchased most of my guitars over the years about this recently. They quit carrying Gibson many years ago because they were required to by $95,000 worth of guitars to remain a dealer. The "package" included some of every model, most of which would hang on the wall until they became relics. That package is now up to around a quarter million bucks, just to remain a dealer. It's obvious that Moms and Pops are not wanted in a world where large online retailers are the preferred outlet.

 

The owner said that price matching is not a problem and that he could maintain the business just selling horns, violins. and drums to school music programs. Another dealer friend told me that the local music school director wouldn't let him in the door. He will be out of business in a few years.

[scrivens]

<comments deleted>

 

Oops - wrong thread...

[generation zero]

I bought my fake Gibson because it was fake... I saw it listed as such on craigslist and scooped it up for 300 bucks. Had I bought it thinking it was real, though, I would have been pretty upset. If not for the dragon inlay on the neck, it could absolutely pass as a real deal Gibson to an unsuspecting buyer.

 

Knowing it was fake, I definitely wouldn't have bought it without playing it first. That could have been a disaster!

[LesBonfire]

I know that this is an older thread....but is there any key things to look for when buying a Sheraton off of like Craigslist or Kijiji?

[brianh]

I know that this is an older thread....but is there any key things to look for when buying a Sheraton off of like Craigslist or Kijiji?

#1 - Ask the seller for the serial number' date=' then verify authenticity on the Guitar Dater site.

#2 - Ask for photos - as many, and as hi-res as possible, then post them here.

#3 - Get yourself familiar with the feel and details of the guitar - either at a music shop or those owned by friends.

#4 - When buying, be prepared to NOT take it home if anything doesn't seem right - serial # doesn't match, is missing or obliterated, has "2ND" or "USED" presssed into the headstock, or mods and damages previously unmentioned by the seller. (Some of these might be acceptable for a commensurate price reduction.)

#5 - And lastly, don't buy it unless you actually like the way the guitar feels and sounds. It's really easy to spend money on guitars that look nice, but don't play or sound all that great.

 

In any case, all the more info you can post here the better. We're all here to help.

[LesBonfire]

All great tips...though I am leary on the guitar dater site...only because it just decodes the serial number...and if its a fake serial number its most likely does coincide with a date...thanks for the tips tho...any other suggestions on Sheraton details would be appreciated!

[Parabar]

Lerxst wrote

I was just reading an article somewhere about fake Dillion guitars! Which is kind of ironic, since Dillion is like the king of Korean-made lawsuit guitars... (pretty good quality from what I hear, thought..) Most of them are coming out of Canada and the quality is terrible... Which is what you can expect when you make a copy of a copy, right?

 

I'm wondering if there may be some scrambled information here. I own three Dillions, and they are excellent guitars. The original Dillions were (and I believe still are) made in the Tokai factory in Korea, which has a reputation for high quality. There were some lower-end models made in Vietnam, and I understand there are some cheaper Dillion models being made in China now as well.

 

Dillion Canada is a separate (but related) entity. Because of different copyright laws in Canada and the U.S., guitar makers can sell products in Canada that would be prohibited in the U.S., so there were extremely accurate PRS and Rickenbacker copies being sold there that were not available in the States. It's hard to imagine any manufacturer could make a profit making counterfeits in Canada, because the cost of labor there is close to what it is in the US --- only by using cheap overseas labor (as well as authorities who look the other way) does the prospect of counterfeiting make any kind of business sense.

[rockstar232007]

these chinese copy every single detail ](*' date=') '](*,)

Actually? They don't. Though it IS harder to distinguish a fake Epi from a real one, than it is to tell the difference between real and fake Gibsons. There ARE very minute details that will tell you (if you know what exactly to look for) if it's real or fake.

 

And THE best way to do that? Post some pics.

[mrjones200x]

Loads of fake epis on ebay everyday. More than the gibsons imo.

 

Look at these from looking now

 

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Epiphone-Les-Paul-Custom-Electric-Guitar-Alpine-White_W0QQitemZ110438524822QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Musical_Instruments_Guitars_CV?hash=item19b6a62796

 

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Epiphone-Les-Paul-Custom-Black-Beauty-3-Electric-Guitar_W0QQitemZ110438531214QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Musical_Instruments_Guitars_CV?hash=item19b6a6408e

 

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Epiphone-Les-Paul-Custom-Electric-Guitar-Black-Beauty-3_W0QQitemZ200394078856QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Musical_Instruments_Guitars_CV?hash=item2ea86afa88

 

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Epiphone-Zakk-Wylde-Bullseye-Les-Paul-Mint-Condition_W0QQitemZ320434737914QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Musical_Instruments_Guitars_CV?hash=item4a9b6612fa

 

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/NEW-Genuine-Epiphone-Les-Paul-Custom-Black-Beauty_W0QQitemZ230388386609QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Musical_Instruments_Guitars_CV?hash=item35a437cb31

 

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Eiphone-les-paul-custom-electric-guitar-White_W0QQitemZ250515185360QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Musical_Instruments_Guitars_CV?hash=item3a53de5ed0

 

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Epiphone-Les-Paul-Custom-Electric-Guitar-Ebony_W0QQitemZ110441131580QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Musical_Instruments_Guitars_CV?hash=item19b6cdee3c

 

Lots of small details to notice such as,

 

Washer size on machine head are to big.

Control knob placement is all different.

The listing reads like a 5 year old wrote it. Really bad english phrasing and words muddled up.

Always seems to be customs that are mainly faked.

[BlueMeanie]

Hey guys, what on-line sites are reputable? Music123 and Musicians friend seem to be okay right? I plan on buying the JL inspired casino's whaen they come out.

[BlueMeanie]

Loads of fake epis on ebay everyday. More than the gibsons imo.

 

Look at these from looking now

 

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Epiphone-Les-Paul-Custom-Electric-Guitar-Alpine-White_W0QQitemZ110438524822QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Musical_Instruments_Guitars_CV?hash=item19b6a62796

 

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Epiphone-Les-Paul-Custom-Black-Beauty-3-Electric-Guitar_W0QQitemZ110438531214QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Musical_Instruments_Guitars_CV?hash=item19b6a6408e

 

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Epiphone-Les-Paul-Custom-Electric-Guitar-Black-Beauty-3_W0QQitemZ200394078856QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Musical_Instruments_Guitars_CV?hash=item2ea86afa88

 

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Epiphone-Zakk-Wylde-Bullseye-Les-Paul-Mint-Condition_W0QQitemZ320434737914QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Musical_Instruments_Guitars_CV?hash=item4a9b6612fa

 

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/NEW-Genuine-Epiphone-Les-Paul-Custom-Black-Beauty_W0QQitemZ230388386609QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Musical_Instruments_Guitars_CV?hash=item35a437cb31

 

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Eiphone-les-paul-custom-electric-guitar-White_W0QQitemZ250515185360QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Musical_Instruments_Guitars_CV?hash=item3a53de5ed0

 

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Epiphone-Les-Paul-Custom-Electric-Guitar-Ebony_W0QQitemZ110441131580QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Musical_Instruments_Guitars_CV?hash=item19b6cdee3c

 

Lots of small details to notice such as' date='

 

Washer size on machine head are to big.

Control knob placement is all different.

The listing reads like a 5 year old wrote it. Really bad english phrasing and words muddled up.

Always seems to be customs that are mainly faked.[/quote']

 

 

How can you tell that they are fake?(aside from the pics) on the site it says you can check out the serial number on thier link to verify..Man i'm sure they have sold tons to a lot of inexperienced buyers.

[rockstar232007]

How can you tell that they are fake?(aside from the pics) on the site it says you can check out the serial number on thier link to verify..Man i'm sure they have sold tons to a lot of inexperienced buyers.

When it comes to Epis? The term "fake" doesn't necessarily mean that it is a reproduction (copy). Most are what you would call "back-door" guitars. In other words; they technically are real Epis' date=' but there were MANY production flaws that prevented them from passing the "meticulous" inspection, but instead of cutting them up/destroying them, most [Chinese'] manufacturers will sell them anyway just to make a little extra profit, which is just WRONG! as these guitars lack the "quality"/"craftsmanship" that legitimate Epi guitars offer. Now as far as Gibsons are concerned? The "fake" ones you see on Ebay ARE total repros, or are assembled from various Gibson parts. It's a HELLUVA lot easier to tell the difference with these though.

[Guest]

How can you tell that they are fake?(aside from the pics) on the site it says you can check out the serial number on thier link to verify..Man i'm sure they have sold tons to a lot of inexperienced buyers.

 

Well here's how I could tell:

 

The Black Beauty 3 guitars in the links all carry an "inspected in USA" sticker. However they're being sold to the UK. Epiphone do not ever send guitars destined for any country other than the USA to the USA for inspection. Also the headstock diamond logo is terribly wonky on both of them and on one the pickguard screw is too close to the edge of the pickguard (a very common mistake with fakes, the first thing for a fake-spotter to look at). English usage in the ad is also very odd.

 

I'm not sure about the Zakk Wylde. The control knobs are in odd spots though but I'm not expert on the Wyldes so I'll defer to someone who is.

 

The other links didn't work because the auctions had ended (or they were pulled from EBay for being fraudulent).

[rockstar232007]

Well here's how I could tell:

 

The Black Beauty 3 guitars in the links all carry an "inspected in USA" sticker. However they're being sold to the UK. Epiphone do not ever send guitars destined for any country other than the USA to the USA for inspection. Also the headstock diamond logo is terribly wonky on both of them and on one the pickguard screw is too close to the edge of the pickguard (a very common mistake with fakes' date=' the first thing for a fake-spotter to look at). English usage in the ad is also very odd.

 

I'm not sure about the Zakk Wylde. The control knobs are in odd spots though but I'm not expert on the Wyldes so I'll defer to someone who is.

 

The other links didn't work because the auctions had ended (or they were pulled from EBay for being fraudulent).

 

[/quote']Anyone who has ever seen a real Gibson/Epi guitar (even if in pics) should be able to tell the difference [fairly easily] by the shape of the body alone, as the real production models are basically "cookie-cutter" copies of each other, and therefore look EXACTLY the same. There is almost NO deviation in the overall shape, especially in the cutaway area (the spot that needs to be looked at the most) which is one of THE most important places on the body, because that alone can/will tell you if it's fake or not. It's almost like an LP's "fingerprint".

 

Here's a little tip:

 

Pointed/sharp/un-uniform cutaway = Most likely fake.

 

I'll use the Gibson Ace Frehley LP as an example. Pay CLOSE attn. to the cutaways!

 

Real AF LP

 

Fake AF LP