RE: posting references to fake guitars

[carverman]

EDIT: Ok, I appreciate the input on "freedom of speech/expression" for all forum members,

and now after a period of time, I'm starting to see the "light" "Don't read the posts, and

don't comment on them..ok...I now see what the rest of you are trying to impress on me...

 

" I saw the light, I saw the light,

No more darkness, no more night,

Now I'm so happy..I jes wanna cry,"

 

 

Don't read the posts, don't upset others, don't correct, don't fight concensus..yada yada yada

 

..jes be yurself and set yurself free" (Paul Simon.."50 ways to leave.." the forum'

 

.....baaaaaa...where's me wooley skin....found it..ok forum... whats it gonna be for you

...old curmudgeon chops?

 

Ok you guys win...can I still stay in and be your lackey or something? :)

 

 

(Thanks to the posters who tried so desparately to defend me from the maddening crowd. )

[Ricochet]

As a suggestion to Gibson/Epiphone Admins of this forum' date=' a new rule should be

added to prevent promotion of posting references to e-bay fakes on this forum. [/quote']

 

I understand(and appreciate) your concern Carver. But these links are a valuable aid in identifing the fakes. Which is what we want, is it not?

[Nic]

As a suggestion to Gibson/Epiphone Admins of this forum' date=' a new rule should be

added to prevent promotion of posting references to e-bay fakes on this forum. [/quote']

 

????What? Why? The more we know about fakes the better chance we have avoiding them. Nobody's promoting them. The discussion threads discussing fakes is the most valuable information I'm getting from this forum. I had no idea this was happening.

[carverman]

 

????What? Why? The more we know about fakes the better chance we have avoiding them. Nobody's promoting them. The discussion threads discussing fakes is the most valuable information I'm getting from this forum. I had no idea this was happening.

 

C'mon guys! You should know as well as I know, the difference between the genuine and fake.

( Although I must admit that sometimes, the difference visually is hard to tell. )

I personally have no interest in reading about fakes, but perhaps some members of this forum or the forum public in general may have, so I don't know how this should be handled by the admins.

 

All I can say is that at some point..if there is too much of this going on, this forum could be severely curtailed and rightly so..it's not in the best interests of the sponsor to allow this to continue. Yes, the information for fakes may be a good thing , but it needs the right venue for it, and this may not be the right place.

My opinion, of course.

[essessemm]

 

C'mon guys! You should know as well as I know' date=' the difference between the genuine and fake.[/quote']

 

Sorry, I'm just not as experienced as you. I appreciate the lessons I get here.

[dubstar]

I don't want any more rules...

[captmidnight]

Carverman,

What bee got under your bonnet? I know you don't try to sell them...but I do believe you have 2 fakes you built yourself and sure aren't affraid to talk about them on here. Some don't have enough info and knowledge about fakes to know which is what...I for one would have been fooled by a couple that has been shown, of course they are models I have never played or looked at before.

 

Just calm down and get your knickers out of a knot and out of your crack and stop trying to be the forum tattle tail

Here is a glass of milk and a couple cookies...everything will be alright.

Capt

[carverman]

Carverman' date='

What bee got under your bonnet? I know you don't try to sell them...but I do believe you have 2 fakes you built yourself and sure aren't affraid to talk about them on here. Some don't have enough info and knowledge about fakes to know which is what...I for one would have been fooled by a couple that has been shown, of course they are models I have never played or looked at before.

Capt[/quote']

 

What I built for my own use are not fakes, they are originals (as far as I'm concerned) in the LP Style, and this is how they are mentioned in my sig.

 

They are not G*bsons, nor did I every mention that they were. These were simply carving "experiments" with woods that I like to work with and I wanted to see if I could build something playable in that style that were unusual

and not available in a store anywhere.

 

I do not intend to ever sell them, as they are part of me and I wouldn't part with them, but possibly will them

to my grandchildren. Sure, I like to talk about guitars, construction methods, pickups and such..so what?

This is what the forum is for, to discuss Epiphone guitars, types of pickups, etc, and how to wire up or

solve wiring problems. I own 4 Epiphones and I love the sound of each one.

 

However, anyone with limited knowledge of Gibsons would know that ordering a "Gibs*n direct from an unauthorized distributer in China or on E-B*y would be pretty much aware that this can't be the real thing at $300.

 

I have NEVER stuck a fake G*bson or Epiph*ne headstock label on them, I have too much respect

for Gibson going back to the 60s when I worked for an Epiphone dealer here in Ottawa.

The LP body profile is not copyrighted (AFAIK) and the patent on the shape probably expired a long time ago.

 

To set an example, I'll also remove them from my sig.

[TWANG]

I like looking at the copys. I like to hear about those who try them out.

I BUY epiphones.

I have epi stickers on my car. On my gear.

 

Cencorship of reality is no way to go.

 

Would you believe that you could get a 335 for 200.00?

would you believe that it played as well as a gibson? was built of better wood?

 

perhaps an inexperienced person would. but that's just it.

who warns him or her?

how many more are coming into guitar unaware as time passes?

 

discussion of what is happening in the real world of guitars is something that's a benefit to everyone.

 

In another thread on this subject, I found out that some of these guitars actually carry the epiphone name. the gibson name..even on the parts.

I'm also interested in that aspect.. how can they sell them on ebay using the corporate name?

do epi or gibson rejected parts, or parts leftover from facility changeovers wind up being sold for use in other countrys, but then wind up here?

 

what about intellectual curiosity carverman?

Does it never conicide with brand loyalty?

 

Once you ask a question you're a traitor.. boy, we've heard that put forth politically lately haven't we?

But even to guitars?

I hope not.

[TWANG]

coincide, I meant to type. *L*

[rlajack1217]

EDIT: As a suggestion to Gibson/Epiphone Admins of this forum, a new rule should be

added to block postings from Carverman! :)

[carverman]

I like looking at the copys. I like to hear about those who try them out.

I BUY epiphones.

I have epi stickers on my car. On my gear.

 

what about intellectual curiosity carverman?

Does it never conicide with brand loyalty?

 

Once you ask a question you're a traitor.. boy' date=' we've heard that put forth politically lately haven't we?

But even to guitars?

I hope not.

[/quote']

 

Ok Twang, here's my reply from my perspective on this subject.

 

1. You can buy whatever you like..it's your money!

2. You can be curious about what's on the marketplace and investigate.

3. You are NOT a traitor to ask a intelligent question on what's on the market.

 

However, if you deliberately buy a guitar that is a known fake(counterfeit) from a source in

China and that particular guitar has trademark violations written all over it...what does that

make you?

 

a) a private "investigator" that is willing to shell out $300 or more on a fake, (imported to

North America not using the proper channels) but doing this as a public service to expose

the fake and draw attention to it so that the proper authorities take over?

 

:) Curious, but fully aware that it's a fake, but willing to try it out anyhow to (perhaps save a few

bucks) see how it compares to others...

and maybe resell it on the online auction sites (that (supposedly) frown on fakery) in the

future or worse still sell it to some unsuspecting buyer as the real thing for a few hundred more

than what you paid for it, because the serial number happens to be duplicated?

 

c) buying guitars for fun direct from offshore places because it's easy to do it now on the

internet and promoting them?

 

If this is allowed to continue, what's it going to do to the public's perception of that that Gibson or Epiphone guitar

that the band is using on TV?

 

Someone once said, 'if you are not part of the solution to the problem, then you are part of the problem"

[JefferySmith]

I think that was Eldridge Cleaver (Soul on Ice?)

[carverman]

EDIT: As a suggestion to Gibson/Epiphone Admins of this forum' date=' a new rule should be

added to block postings from Carverman! :)

[/quote']

 

Whatever! I have a right to my opinion on this public forum as well as you.

This a Gibson sponsered forum and they have the exclusive right to block me

and perhaps a few of some others as well.

[Ron G]

There are LOTS of threads I think are useless; I simply don't follow them. Don't need

no steenkin' rule!

 

coincide' date=' I meant to type. *L*[/quote']

 

What does *L* mean?

[rlajack1217]

 

C'mon guys! You should know as well as I know' date=' the difference between the genuine and fake.

( Although I must admit that sometimes, the difference visually is hard to tell. )

I personally have no interest in reading about fakes, but perhaps some members of this forum or the forum public in general may have, so I don't know how this should be handled by the admins.

 

All I can say is that at some point..if there is too much of this going on, this forum could be severely curtailed and rightly so..it's not in the best interests of the sponsor to allow this to continue. Yes, the information for fakes may be a good thing , but it needs the right venue for it, and this may not be the right place.

My opinion, of course. [/quote']

 

If you have no interest in reading about fakes then don't. No one is forcing you to read anything on this site. Obviously from the other comments you're in the minority.

[dubstar]

edit

[carverman]

There are LOTS of threads I think are useless; I simply don't follow them. Don't need

no steenkin' rule!

 

I have no problem with that Ron. I generally scan the posts of interest and ignore

the rest. The crux of the matter here is where do you draw the line in purchasing

and discussing obvious fakes on this forum. Exposing the fake as a public service

may be acceptable for what it is, but this needs some clarification IMO.

[L1Picker]

[rlajack1217]

let's not turn this into the FDP' date=' OK? [/quote']

 

So does FDP stand for "Free Democratic Party" or "Fender Discussion Page"? :)

[brad1]

 

I have no problem with that Ron. I generally scan the posts of interest and ignore

the rest. The crux of the matter here is where do you draw the line in purchasing

and discussing obvious fakes on this forum. Exposing the fake as a public service

may be acceptable for what it is' date=' but this needs some clarification IMO[/b'].

Why must a line be drawn for discussing fakes? I don't understand your reasoning at all.

And I think you may be the only member who feels this need for clarification. Yes , you have a right to your opinion.

But good luck in finding anyone else who shares it.

A warning sign is really not needed IMO.

[carverman]

Why must a line be drawn for discussing fakes? I don't understand your reasoning at all.

And I think you may be the only member who feels this need for clarification. Yes ' date=' you have a right to your opinion.

But good luck in finding anyone else who shares it.

A warning sign is really not needed IMO.[/quote']

 

Fine! Until we hear back from the MODs/Admin, lets politely agree to disagree on this subject and leave it

at that.

[JefferySmith]

EDIT: As a suggestion to Gibson/Epiphone Admins of this forum' date=' a new rule should be

added to posting references to e-bay fakes on this forum.

 

It may be a public service as some posters mentioned, but perhaps the initial thread

should be preceded with a "Warning" or something to that effect.

 

(Thanks to the posters who replied in regards to this.)[/quote']

 

For some reason, I didn't bristle when I read this. Maybe I'm missing something. Are you not asking that posts revealing fakes be flagged as such (so that readers who aren't at risk for buying fakes can skip those posts)? It's sort of like typing OT in the subject line for Beatles threads.

[Roswell]

 

Whatever! I have a right to my opinion on this public forum as well as you.

This a Gibson sponsered forum and they have the exclusive right to block me

and perhaps a few of some others as well. :)

We also have the right to our opinion to tell you to get your panties out of your crack. Some of us like these types of threads -- I'm not at all knowledgeable in this field, and I very much appreciate the imparting of valuable knowledge like that to prevent me from falling into a trap like that.

 

It's not that hard really -- if you don't like the threads, don't read them. Nobody is forcing you to.

[L1Picker]

 

For some reason' date=' I didn't bristle when I read this. Maybe I'm missing something. Are you not asking that posts revealing fakes be flagged as such (so that readers who aren't at risk for buying fakes can skip those posts)? It's sort of like typing OT in the subject line for Beatles threads.[/quote']

 

 

You mean like...

 

"Warning! Coffee is Hot! Do not spill on lap!"

 

"Warning! Operating electronic devices in the bathtub can cause serious injury or death!"

 

"Warning! Plastic bags are not toys! Do not give to children as choking or death may result!"

 

 

Are you one of those folks that really needs a warning label for everything? :)