charlie brown Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 I guess the tag line, says it all. What's your opinion (Overall) of Epiphone quality, now that they have a "dedicated" factory, for "Epiphone only" guitars? The Same, Better, Worse? And, maybe more importantly, WHAT would you suggest, to improve things, if needed? CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gashole Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Unfortunately it seems to be a crap shoot... To improve? Come home Epi, come home! Put some Americans to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSDx Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Can't rightly say...... apples to oranges, in my particular case. My acoustic Epi was made in '99, fit/finish/playability are just fine, and same with my '07 Epi LP (EE - China) ...... both great guitars for what they are, but incomparable due to the obvious differences between them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiberna Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 I think they are getting worse, but thats because production moved to china. The difference in quality between the korean guitars and the chinese ones is staggering. go back to korea is my advice. another thing, how much difference would the labour costs implode upon the guitars being made in china or america or britain? if someones got the facts and willing to do some quick calculations then maybe we can see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svet Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 I think they are getting worse' date=' but thats because production moved to china. The difference in quality between the korean guitars and the chinese ones is staggering. go back to korea is my advice. another thing, how much difference would the labour costs implode upon the guitars being made in china or america or britain? if someones got the facts and willing to do some quick calculations then maybe we can see.[/quote'] The Epiphone production in China is relatively new and there is going to be a learning curve associated with it. Give it time and I'm sure that the guitars will be brought up to the Korean standard. That is only if Epiphone keeps the materials the same as well. There is no reason to think that a guitar that is produced in China cannot be well made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svet Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 People seem to be forgetting that the Masterbilt line is being made in China. If you stop over in the Acoustics forum you will see that they are very highly regarded Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JefferySmith Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 It is really hard to say. I've heard some horror stories from the guys here (I'm not including the two nut cases), but my only Chinese-made Epiphone is pretty darned nice. It makes me wonder if the really crappy ones are actually counterfeit, or if there is poor quality control in the Chinese factory (which seems to be pervasive in Chinese-made products). Unfortunately, the horror stories that have cropped up have made me decide to stop buying Epiphone altogether. Their Elitists are gone, the high-end Slash LP models seem to be nowhere to be found, and the Chinese built stuff is scary. I'm quite happy with the collection of Elitists (4) and Korean-built Epiphones (3) I currently own, and don't need anything else. I wish Epiphone would make an Arlo Guthrie model (short scale) flattop acoustic since the Gibson is way out of my reach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted February 22, 2009 Author Share Posted February 22, 2009 Well, like Svet, I think things will (eventually) even out, and get better....hopefully. But, I worry that until then, they'll loose credibility, and Customers! I, like a lot of you, would LOVE for Epiphone to "come home," and put American know how, "can do," back to work, making the wonderful guitars that some of us here, grew up with! Not sure, that can ever happen, and be "affordable" too...but, it's a nice thought/idea. "Chinese" guitars CAN be as well made, finished, etc., as anywhere else. But, is Gibson willing/committed to DO that, and up the QC along with it? Time will tell, I guess? CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JefferySmith Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Well' date=' like Svet, I think things will (eventually) even out, and get better....hopefully. But, I worry that until then, they'llloose credibility, and Customers! I, like a lot of you, would LOVE for Epiphone to "come home," and put American know how, "can do," back to work, making the wonderful guitars that some of us here, grew up with! Not sure, that can ever happen, and be "affordable" too...but, it's a nice thought/idea. "Chinese" guitars CAN be as well made, finished, etc., as anywhere else. But, is Gibson willing/committed to DO that, and up the QC along with it? Time will tell, I guess? CB [/quote'] Epiphone's market now is identical to a bunch of other markets (Agile, Hagstrom, PRS SE, etc.), and the loss of the Elitist line has left a terrible void. It would be nice to have Epiphone start up again in the USA with nitro finished Casinos, Sheratons, SGs, and Les Pauls. I think they could be competitive with Heritage if they played their cards right. I have enough $500 guitars, so my future buying is probably going to be Fender, Gretsch, Heritage, or Washburn USA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxman Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Few months ago I picked up an Epi acoustic that had no slots cut into the nut! Oh, there was something cut there, but the strings were actually above the nut. It took me a second to see that. I guess quality control didn't have that second. Quality control on these products is atrocious. We hear far too many complaints here from guys and gals who bought brand new guitars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gashole Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 The Epiphone production in China is relatively new and there is going to be a learning curve associated with it. Give it time and I'm sure that the guitars will be brought up to the Korean standard. That is only if Epiphone keeps the materials the same as well. There is no reason to think that a guitar that is produced in China cannot be well made. True, very true. The problem is making them good consistently-and in China that is never a guarantee. There is only so much control that Gibson can excercise in a police state. The Chinese factory will do its own thing whenever they decide to do it, and I don't think an American or any other corporation can do much about that but wring their hands and eventually cancel the contract... I'm referring to aggressive cost cutting measures that the Chinese indulge in, usually at workers expense and then the consumer... It's tough to have any faith in Chinese products w/ constant recalls, excecutions of Chinese managers for bad mistakes (can you imagine the heads rolling in Wallstreet if the financial crisis originated in Beijing? Literally rolling? Maybe that would be a good thing)...the whole ugly bag over there. Korea was definitely a different and better situation for a western business to get quality *and *cost in a decent package. When companies go with China, quality is not what they are thinking of first. You utilize the indentured servants of China toward one end-to get a product as cheaply as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JefferySmith Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 The fact that they still add melamine to food products to make them look like they contain protein suggests that they lack concern about the end buyers of their products. They have poisoned babies with melamine as well as with ethylene glycol, and knowingly put lead-based paint in toys. I think Epiphone made a terrible mistake deciding to use the cheap labor there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gashole Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 The fact that they still add melamine to food products to make them look like they contain protein suggests that they lack concern about the end buyers of their products. They have poisoned babies with melamine as well as with ethylene glycol' date=' and knowingly put lead-based paint in toys. I think Epiphone made a terrible mistake deciding to use the cheap labor there. [/quote'] I second that. Tragic mistake. I think those growing pains could sink 'em. Now isn't the time for any buisiness hiccups. There will be much thinning of the herds throughout the financial crisis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svet Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 That is a very good point Peter! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AXSIS Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 I bought my first Epiphone explorer (a small plywood body version)wit cheap trem around mid 80's . My most recent buy was a futura prophecy, that I paid a litte over twice the amount for... However, consider that the prophecy has a solid hardwood body and neck, EMG pickups, floyd rose trem, grover tuners and it seems that the quality has vastly improved overall... there are issues with finish and set up, but I think they generally represent good value for money if you get the right deal... I also bought a wildkat, with hardcase... as with the futura, I would struggle to buy all the parts to build it myself for the price I paid and don't have to spend the time doing it... Sure they're not boutique made guitars, but Gibson quality here in the UK leaves a lot to be desired, as does the price... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sexygibson Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 True; the Chinese quality hasn't been what we had hoped for. The best thing to do right now is not to take a chance ordering online and play before you buy. As far as bringing production back to the states; its a nice thought but not gonna happen. If, and thats a big if, it did happen, heres what I'd like to see happen. Epi could produce USA models in the same price bracket as Fenders Highway 1 series and move the Chinese production to Mexico. I think that it would be a win-win situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JefferySmith Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 I believe that Sweetwater still has some Korean-made Epiphones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gashole Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 That is a very good point Peter! Yeah, it is a good point...I guess the buyer isn't w/o recourse when looking at it like that. However-as an example you've all seen the new natural finishes on say the Sheratons? There was one UGLY one posted through Sweetwater a few days back...Sweetwater is a great dealer. There is nothing technically wrong with that guitar-I'm sure they checked it very closely before they posted pictures and the serial number. So they have a working guitar to sell...problem is, that guitar sure LOOKS like hell compared to older natural Sherries. That's just one example. What about the guts I wonder? The problem is-the baseline of quality *seems* to have degraded, and dealers are having to sell them anyway. Sure, a good dealer will see that it functions properly-and with warranty you are indeed covered if they miss something, and that's all to the good. But it's still not as good a guitar as it was a few years ago...and a few years before that...and a decade or so before that! There is a disturbing pattern here! Obviously, the Elitists don't figure into this. I've never read one complaint about those beauties. And I guess the Masterbuilt stuff has a good rep still too. Just to be objective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InsideMan Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Peter makes an excellent point. Howerver, mass sales outlets (and you know who you are!) don't find it cost effective to setup and inspect all outgoing guitars. Pity. This makes it more important to try the guitar out first, either in person or within the "try-out" period allowed by the online store. (Obviously, this makes a brick-and-mortar store the best bet.) If Epis weren't made in China, we wouldn't be able to afford them. Period. This is why they moved on from Korea. I think the Chinese factory will get their act together, hopefully sooner than later. In the meantime, we just have to filter the good from the bad. Not ideal, but the way it is. Of course, there are other good Asian manufacturers out there. (I'm talking to YOU, Gibson!) So Gibson/Epiphone better not drag their heels. Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted February 22, 2009 Author Share Posted February 22, 2009 The Epiphone production in China is relatively new and there is going to be a learning curve associated with it. Give it time and I'm sure that the guitars will be brought up to the Korean standard. That is only if Epiphone keeps the materials the same as well. There is no reason to think that a guitar that is produced in China cannot be well made. Yeah, but IS "seven years in," really new? They opened, in 2002! Seems to me, the "hickups" should have been addressed prior to opening, and QC should be optimum, always! But, we live in the "Real World," and that doesn't even happen HERE! I've seen plenty of Gibson's (with finish problems mostly), that needed to be/should have been stopped, before they reached the stores/consumers. And, as with a lot of things, (these days more than ever), "Perception" and "Reality" can be 2 very different things. Maybe Epiphones QC (save a few that slipped through the cracks) isn't all that bad? Then again...maybe there is REAL room for improvement. Hard to say...given the limited input on this forum, compared to the numbers of guitars sold, world wide. But, quality and QC need to be at their best, regardless of where it's made. And, we need to stop buying stuff, that isn't up to snuff...especially, since there are so many brands that are as good, and some would say, even better? But, it really IS up to US...to have the final word....by what we will and won't purchase...IMHO, as always. CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostindesert Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 True; the Chinese quality hasn't been what we had hoped for. The best thing to do right now is not to take a chance ordering online and play before you buy. As far as bringing production back to the states; its a nice thought but not gonna happen. If' date=' and thats a big if, it did happen, heres what I'd like to see happen. Epi could produce USA models in the same price bracket as Fenders Highway 1 series and move the Chinese production to Mexico. I think that it would be a win-win situation.[/quote'] +1 for Mexico, i was thinking about that also. Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brad1 Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 I think they are getting worse' date=' but thats because production moved to china. The difference in quality between the korean guitars and the chinese ones is staggering. go back to korea is my advice. another thing, how much difference would the labour costs implode upon the guitars being made in china or america or britain? if someones got the facts and willing to do some quick calculations then maybe we can see.[/quote'] I disagree. I've owned several LP's that were made in Korea. Each was a POS! I have one now that I hardly ever play: it's the one in my avatar. It's a '97 Unsung. The pups are horrible! On the other hand, my 2006 EE G400 is fantastic. And just about every one from that factory I've played has been great as well. So I could not disagree with you more. With the newer EPI owned factory in China putting out some great guitars I would have to say they are getting much better. I've never understood this allegiance to Korea. Countries don't make guitars, factories do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JefferySmith Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 The electronics from Korea don't have a great reputation. I wish they were easier to replace; I would buy a box of them (USA) and swap them all out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted February 22, 2009 Author Share Posted February 22, 2009 Yeah, we often change electronics (pickups, anyway) even in Gibby's...to suit our own tastes. That's cool! I just hope Qingdao will continually improve build and finish quality, and...at least QC. But, bring back the models, with the right specs, to the originals too..that everyone (here, at least) misses...a LOT! CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stabarah Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 here's a plan, make em in Canada. It wont cost as much as nashville, and there's a ton of luthiers up here that seem low on work. There might be minor temperature problems due to the dam snowstorms to heat waves. But they'll figure it out Cho/cheers and thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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