gtarman Posted September 20, 2010 Share Posted September 20, 2010 Hi, I'm thinking of buying an Epiphone Casino Elitest semi-acoustic guitar. It comes with two finishes - Sunburst and Natural. I read that John Lennon originally had a Sunburst Casino and then in the late '60s had the finish sanded or stripped to natural to supposedly improve the tone. I'm looking for a studio instrument so the sound and tone of the guitar are ultimately my foremost concern. Has anyone had experience with both versions of the Casino and are able to tell whether there's a noticeable difference in sound between the two versions? Looks-wise I'm maybe 51% in favour of the Sunburst but if the Natural has a better tone then I'd most probably get that. They don't sell the Casino near where I live so I'll most likely have to order one in and therefore not be able to test both versions myself pre-purchase. Any help would therefore be greatly appreciated! Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianh Posted September 20, 2010 Share Posted September 20, 2010 Both Elitist Casino finishes are poly so should sound roughly the same, unit to unit differences notwithstanding. Only the much more expensive 1965 Revolution (blonde) model has a thin nitrocellulose finish to replicate JL's guitar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted September 20, 2010 Share Posted September 20, 2010 Finish might make a difference when played unplugged but once you plug in it don't matter other than Mojo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtarman Posted September 20, 2010 Author Share Posted September 20, 2010 Thanks for the swift responses and info - and a useful Casino comparison chart. It's difficult to choose between the two finishes then as they both look great! I guess I'll have to ponder it and let my Mojo decide... Thanks again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtarman Posted September 20, 2010 Author Share Posted September 20, 2010 Okay, been thinking some more... . I've noticed some Casino users remove the raised pickguard from the guitar (like on JL's "stripped" Casino). I think maybe I prefer the Natural finish Casino to the Sunburst when the pickguard's removed. Any thoughts on the advantages/disadvantages of removing the pickguard with regards to sound and playability of the guitar? I'm not familiar myself with archtop guitars with raised pickguards like this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i Can Tuna Guitar Posted September 20, 2010 Share Posted September 20, 2010 The two finishes are virtually the same (mostly polyester) on either color guitar. They will sound and play the same (within any manufacturing variations), with or without pickguard. But if you remove the "e" decal on the pickguard........ When I have to decide about colors, I choose the one I think I'll be least likely to get tired of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis G Posted September 20, 2010 Share Posted September 20, 2010 They don't sell the Casino near where I live so I'll most likely have to order one in and therefore not be able to test both versions myself pre-purchase. Any help would therefore be greatly appreciated! Thanks. FYI, if you have to order one, be prepared to wait. I've had an Elitist Casino on order from Sweetwater for about 3 months now. They only get them in every "now and then". Mine actually came in last week, but during their inspection/setup they found a ding on the back, so I'm waiting for the next one to arrive. I went with the Tobacco burst because my Dot is natural, & I don't own any other Tobacco burst guitars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtarman Posted September 20, 2010 Author Share Posted September 20, 2010 They will sound and play the same (within any manufacturing variations), with or without pickguard. But if you remove the "e" decal on the pickguard........ I don't suppose removing the pickguard would likely affect tone, but I'm wondering about playability? Do people remove the pickguards purely because they think it looks better or do they perceive there to be an advantage in doing so? For example, I played another guitar recently with a raised pickguard and remember thinking that it might be a bit more difficult to do fingerpicking style with it as you need a bit more space for the fingers. So I'm wondering what the reason for removing the pickguard on the Casino is, as it seems quite common looking at pictures on the internet. When I have to decide about colors, I choose the one I think I'll be least likely to get tired of. I sometimes wonder if I'm going to end up with half a dozen different guitars, all in Sunburst. And whether that would be a bad thing or a good thing! FYI, if you have to order one, be prepared to wait. Yeah, I'm in no rush. Hope you get yours soon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fingers hurt Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 I don't suppose removing the pickguard would likely affect tone, but I'm wondering about playability? Do people remove the pickguards purely because they think it looks better or do they perceive there to be an advantage in doing so? For example, I played another guitar recently with a raised pickguard and remember thinking that it might be a bit more difficult to do fingerpicking style with it as you need a bit more space for the fingers. So I'm wondering what the reason for removing the pickguard on the Casino is, as it seems quite common looking at pictures on the internet. I sometimes wonder if I'm going to end up with half a dozen different guitars, all in Sunburst. And whether that would be a bad thing or a good thing! Yeah, I'm in no rush. Hope you get yours soon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fingers hurt Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 I've had both and I've kept the sunburst just because of the finish and a little bit because of the sound quality. I felt the natural finish one was a bit chimmy and the coating was a little thick.I got them both from the same store,got the natural first,i think it was an 04 year.My Sunburst took about 9 month to arrive and its an 06 year.It's got a 2 cm crack in the surface finish at the dove joint bottom E string side close to the strap anchor,don't know whats going on there.making me nervous. I've never hooked either one up to an amp so I can't say anything about that aspect of there sound,but I did like the tone of the sunburst better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i Can Tuna Guitar Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 I've never hooked either one up to an amp... WTF? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bynapkinart Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 I've never hooked either one up to an amp ?????????????? why not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fingers hurt Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 I don,t have one or need one yet. I can hear it pretty well with head phones on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bynapkinart Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 Fingers, I don't want this to come across the wrong way, but why spend $1000 on a nice electric guitar and then not get any amp? Plugging your headphones in doesn't do anything, you can probably barely hear a signal coming out and it's mostly the acoustic sound anyways. If you want good sound/tone/volume, you need to get some sort of amplifier. You don't even need a tube amp, although I highly recommend it. You should get something...anything at all really. The poly finish will not significantly effect the tone of the guitar. Both are roughly the same thickness even, so not even a nitro nut can tell you differently. The big thing with any electric guitar is how the amplifier takes the guitar's naked signal and alters both the volume and tone in very unique ways. It makes no sense at all to have an electric guitar like the Casino, with its great P90 pickups and the relationship between those pickups and the hollowbody construction, and not have an amp. I would do yourself a huge favor and go out and buy an amp. You say you don't need one, I'm assuming cause you're not out playing live gigs all the time...that's fine!! There are plenty of low volume practice amplifiers that sound killer and will help you with your tone. If you want cheap, you can pick up a Vox Pathfinder 15r for just a little over $100 and still get that awesome Beatle chime. If you want a quality practice tube amp, you can get a phenomenal Vox AC4TV for $250. I don't mean to offend in any way. Having an amplifier changes everything, and you really owe it to yourself to get something to play a killer Elitist Casino through!! Hope that helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fingers hurt Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 But it sounds so good acoustically,The K 240 head phones are open enough to let the guitar come through with music going in them.It was one of the reasons I got the Casino,not as loud as an acoustic and not soft like a solid body. I had an elitist dot that I had a hard time hearing,i miss her,but that was the reason for the casino.I'm sure it will sound good when I do get an amp but not a priority right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bynapkinart Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 But it sounds so good acoustically,The K 240 head phones are open enough to let the guitar come through with music going in them.It was one of the reasons I got the Casino,not as loud as an acoustic and not soft like a solid body. I had an elitist dot that I had a hard time hearing,i miss her,but that was the reason for the casino.I'm sure it will sound good when I do get an amp but not a priority right now. Well I'm glad it is working out for you right now...I'm just very surprised that someone willing to shell out $3k+ for Elitist Epiphones doesn't make an amplifier a number 1 priority. A good amplifier makes a good guitar sound great. A great tube amp makes a Casino sound like heaven. Just my 2 cents... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DKoor Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 Just popped by to say that I'm actually amazed by the fact that Elitist Casino (MIJ) isn't nitro/lacquer finished guitar... for the money they ask for it is almost a must. Thanks for posting that comparable list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parabar Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 At one time (not sure if this is still true), Gibson charged slightly more for natural finish guitars than the same models in sunburst, and some players felt they were worth more, because they used the nicest and prettiest woods on the natural finish guitars. Makes sense, since everything is completely visible. If there was a slight blemish in a piece of wood, they'd position it where it would be covered by the darker part of the burst finish. Some players felt that this translated into better tone from the naturals. There might be something to that in carved top guitars, but I doubt it makes a noticeable difference in a laminated guitar like a Casino. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaSTuS Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 Just popped by to say that I'm actually amazed by the fact that Elitist Casino (MIJ) isn't nitro/lacquer finished guitar... for the money they ask for it is almost a must. Thanks for posting that comparable list. It's impossible for them to nitro guitars in Japan, it's been illegal over there for many years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobouz Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Fwiw - At the current Elitist Casino asking price (US), I would instead recommend purchasing a used level 2 Gibson 330L from MF. This would cost $200 more if no further discounts were in effect. Owning both, I have to say the Gibson's overall playability is significantly superior. Tone on the other hand is subjective, and can be easily manipulted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicmaker99 Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 JUST AN FYI: There are two USED Sunburst Elitist Casinos on the GC website right now--one at $1,109 and the other at $1,399 w/c. My link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonzoboy Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 I own 2 Casinos -a MIC natural and a 1965 sunburst John Lennon model.Both guitars are above average finish and build quality but the 1965 is just head and shoulders above the MIC in every way.Although the MIC sounds and plays great the 1965 is definitely a professional grade instrument.The action is incredibly close all the way down the slim neck and the p-90s just sing.The 1965 Casino is my favourite of my 30 guitars and I'd heartily recommend it to anybody. I hope that this was of some help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hungrycat Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Owning both, I have to say the Gibson's overall playability is significantly superior. "Playability" is very subjective and really has a lot to do with how the instrument is set up and adjusted. I've played quite a few Gibsons that played and sounded like sh*t because they needed a setup and adjustments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clarkuss Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 "Playability" is very subjective and really has a lot to do with how the instrument is set up and adjusted. I've played quite a few Gibsons that played and sounded like sh*t because they needed a setup and adjustments. I have 3 J-160e type guitars (Gibson 1962 RI, Epiphone EJ and Tokai) and the playability of the Tokai is by far the best. Back to the original subject... I don't think the finish makes a lot of difference unless it is literally stripped and even then mainly works better for acoustic guitars. I have a stripped casino and it doesn't sound or play better than my finished ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaSTuS Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 "Playability" is very subjective and really has a lot to do with how the instrument is set up and adjusted. I've played quite a few Gibsons that played and sounded like sh*t because they needed a setup and adjustments. +1I've got half a dozen Gibsons, and none of them are that special to me playing wise, I have some cheap chinese stuff that I've spent some time setting up, and they play much better. My Tokai SG slaughters my Gibson in both sound and playability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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