The "Band Experience"

[Silenced Fred]

So, initially I had it as myself on guitar and vocals, and my friend on drums. Now, it has become two other friends added in on bass and lead guitar. The feeling has been of less enjoyment since the others came on. I mean I appreciate having the instruments, but before when it was just me and my drummer (sounds like a b-list movie), we had fun, wrote songs and just rocked. Now, the kid playing guitar said that I am taking things way too seriously "for what we have".

 

I'm trying to figure out how to deal with this, in the mean time, I'm turning to solo acoustic stuff. I'll post a link on here once I upload the two songs I wrote... with lyrics!

 

EDIT: Here's the songs, its just chords and words, so if you are expecting a Steve Vai/Joe Satriani jerk fest, look elsewhere. PureVolume

[Solid G]

I listened to your stuff and your on the right path. Now with the other guys, is'nt

this all your creative work and motivation that has brought everyone together ?

Then go ahead and tell the guys it is your way or the highway, you can do it in a nice way though. Stick to your ideals and vision.

[cookieman15061]

Great band chemistry is so hard to find.

I would use the 4 man thing as a side project. Playing with other musicians is always a good way to get better.

The thing with your drummer can still be your main focus. You seem to enjoy that most at the moment so keep it fun.

 

First band I was ever in was a group of 4 friends all 15 and 16 years old. We bonded and did everything together. We needed a bass player and the lead singer was trying to learn but it was decided to bring in another kid to play bass.

Immediately the entire dynamics of the band changed. No one hung together apart from group practice. Then this bass player got the drummer to sit in with some other guys he knew and soon the practices stopped all together.

 

Shame because we were all having fun learning as we went along.

[Kimbabig]

So, initially I had it as myself on guitar and vocals, and my friend on drums. Now, it has become two other friends added in on bass and lead guitar. The feeling has been of less enjoyment since the others came on. I mean I appreciate having the instruments, but before when it was just me and my drummer (sounds like a b-list movie), we had fun, wrote songs and just rocked. Now, the kid playing guitar said that I am taking things way too seriously "for what we have".

 

I'm trying to figure out how to deal with this, in the mean time, I'm turning to solo acoustic stuff. I'll post a link on here once I upload the two songs I wrote... with lyrics!

 

EDIT: Here's the songs, its just chords and words, so if you are expecting a Steve Vai/Joe Satriani jerk fest, look elsewhere. PureVolume

 

Fire him and hire me on lead guitar, I mean, we're both in Illinois right?

[albertjohn]

I was recently asked by a friend (we'll call him Robert Barnes) to help form a band. All dad's from the same school and all 45+.

 

We were discussing over a beer a while back, the name of the band.

 

"That's one thing we don't need to discuss. This is my band and it will be called The Robert Barnes Band"

 

We all had a good laugh, but never a truer word spoken in jest.

 

Gotta have some rules so everyone knows where they stand.

[saturn]

I'm not sure if you're just venting or looking for some kind of advice?

 

Well, my advice would be to just stick with the drummer since that's where you find most enjoyment. Life is too short to waste your playtime.

[Silenced Fred]

I'm not sure if you're just venting or looking for some kind of advice?

 

Well, my advice would be to just stick with the drummer since that's where you find most enjoyment. Life is too short to waste your playtime.

 

Well, both kinda. I mean, other people don't want to practice as much and are often "busy" even though they have a way less demanding schedule than myself. I mean, I have a lot of ideas for songs that would only be able to work in a four piece band setting, but than I have others that only work with the two piece.

 

So I have pretty much brought everything down to solo acoustic and just pouring words out. It's nothing spectacular, but I have been listening to a lot of Neil Young especially the new Le Noise album, and I worked on keeping it all original thoughts, original words and original chords instead of reworking and correcting anything. Keeps things real no?

 

I have to say, that the lyrics are just for me to let stuff out and not care whether people like it or not.

[pippy]

Very typical, I'm afraid.

 

When I first started playing it was my mate on bass and myself; playing what we liked and having a great deal of fun.

 

Then we added a sometime-keyboard-sometime lead-vocal guy who had 'some mates' who could play. He then took over 'our' band and it went downhill rapidly - as in about 10 days.

 

The simplest - from a stress-free point of view - gigs I ever played were as a duet with a long-term very good mate on harmonica, vocals and acoustic and I stuck to electric. We were both doing what we loved doing and playing what we loved playing.

 

My experience has been that as soon as a third person gets on board there always seems to be some politics at work...

 

Keep on plugging away at it!

 

P.

[Silenced Fred]

Very typical, I'm afraid.

 

When I first started playing it was my mate on bass and myself; playing what we liked and having a great deal of fun.

 

Then we added a sometime-keyboard-sometime lead-vocal guy who had 'some mates' who could play. He then took over 'our' band and it went downhill rapidly - as in about 10 days.

 

The simplest - from a stress-free point of view - gigs I ever played were as a duet with a long-term very good mate on harmonica, vocals and acoustic and I stuck to electric. We were both doing what we loved doing and playing what we loved playing.

 

My experience has been that as soon as a third person gets on board there always seems to be some politics at work...

 

Keep on plugging away at it!

 

P.

 

I mean, the bassist who is actually my sister's friend who asked if we needed a bassist is very chill and a great musician. She had a bad band experience she is getting out of, and I mean we all go out and just have a good time, then work on songs. The problem I am having is with the other guitar player, I mean he is a great kid, but we don't see eye to eye musically. He is very much into metal, and absolutely hates a lot of the bands that are my main influences such as Black Keys, Foo Fighters, and punk bands.

[Artie Owl]

The only "Band Experience" I've ever had was with a bunch of friends back in Junior high/high school, right after I got my first guitar. It was totally the wrong time for me to try to be in a band, my skill level compared to the person who started were way too far apart. I had one friend on bass and another friend on drums. They didn't know how to tell me I sucked so they eventually just kept moving me around parts until I lost interest; needless to say it was not a fun experience, but I'm still really good friends with the guy who was drumming and the guy on Bass.

 

If I ever go into it again it'll be with casual acquaintances more than likely.

 

Fred you sure do have a lot to complain about when it comes to the "Studio", make sure you enjoy it instead of picking out the bad things all the time.

[Silenced Fred]

The only "Band Experience" I've ever had was with a bunch of friends back in Junior high/high school, right after I got my first guitar. It was totally the wrong time for me to try to be in a band, my skill level compared to the person who started were way too far apart. I had one friend on bass and another friend on drums. They didn't know how to tell me I sucked so they eventually just kept moving me around parts until I lost interest; needless to say it was not a fun experience, but I'm still really good friends with the guy who was drumming and the guy on Bass.

 

If I ever go into it again it'll be with casual acquaintances more than likely.

 

Fred you sure do have a lot to complain about when it comes to the "Studio", make sure you enjoy it instead of picking out the bad things all the time.

 

Sorry for complaining. I thought I would reach out on here since most people have at least had the same experiences and maybe give some advice. I do enjoy music, and I find what I enjoy the most is song writing and stuff like that, so that's my main focus for now

[DanvillRob]

I think what you're experiencing is the transformation from "hobby playing" to "professional playing".

 

It's like everything, once your hobby becomes your job, it's...well, it's work!

 

My brother is an artist. And I don't mean he draws nice pictures, he's a true artist... charcoal, watercolors, oil, sculpts, etc. He worked on his stuff any free time he had.

 

When it became his job, he never touched anything outside of work.

 

Like Bowling. If you like to bowl, you enjoy every trip to the alley. If you became a professional, the pressure, etc. would make bowling work, not fun.

[Versatile]

Just an occupational hazard....get used to it some tension within a band can be creative, mostly it is just a bore and can make you question your resolve to make music in a band. As you have discovered, falling back on solo work is a good ploy

 

 

[bschory]

I mean, the bassist who is actually my sister's friend who asked if we needed a bassist is very chill and a great musician. She had a bad band experience she is getting out of, and I mean we all go out and just have a good time, then work on songs. The problem I am having is with the other guitar player, I mean he is a great kid, but we don't see eye to eye musically. He is very much into metal, and absolutely hates a lot of the bands that are my main influences such as Black Keys, Foo Fighters, and punk bands.

 

Jumping back to this because I've been going through the same sort of thing lately. The lead-singer/guitarist, and myself as guitarist/pianist, have a few similar influences (Zeppelin comes to mind), but we generally pull from different eras in music. He tends to favor grunge and 90s alt-rock/hard-rock. I think his favorite band is the Smashing Pumpkins. I favor blues and blues rock, and have a definite interest in progressive music (some psychedelic, some experimental, some prog rock and prog metal). Lately I've been getting in to a bunch of metal and punk as well. My favorite band is Pink Floyd.

 

The issue we're having is not that we don't appreciate each other's tastes. I like grunge and 90s alt-rock too, but I don't love it. He can appreciate the Floyd and likes some blues and older rock. When we go to speak through our music though, we're coming from different angles on life. I tend to write slower, mellower stuff (at least right now), with the occasional metal or rock song leaking out. He tends to write solid hard-rock or alt-rock stuff. He's not great at writing mellow stuff, and I'm not great at writing harder stuff.

 

The cool thing with sticking with playing with him has been that we've been pulling each other in different directions. Since we started the band he's learned that sometimes you can take the edge off and say even more, and I've learned better when that edge should be there. We're learning a lot and growing as writers, and it's been really fun.

 

Sometimes you have a clear idea what you want a band to be, and you just need to make that happen. Stop working with people who stand in your way and find people who are on the same page and can add something you like to the sound.

 

If you have a chance to play, though, and someone is pulling you in a different direction, it can be really rewarding to see where that goes, even if nothing comes of it.

 

Hope you figure out what you want to do here, and get everything out of the two-piece, the four-piece, and your solo stuff that you hope for.

[Silenced Fred]

Jumping back to this because I've been going through the same sort of thing lately. The lead-singer/guitarist, and myself as guitarist/pianist, have a few similar influences (Zeppelin comes to mind), but we generally pull from different eras in music. He tends to favor grunge and 90s alt-rock/hard-rock. I think his favorite band is the Smashing Pumpkins. I favor blues and blues rock, and have a definite interest in progressive music (some psychedelic, some experimental, some prog rock and prog metal). Lately I've been getting in to a bunch of metal and punk as well. My favorite band is Pink Floyd.

 

The issue we're having is not that we don't appreciate each other's tastes. I like grunge and 90s alt-rock too, but I don't love it. He can appreciate the Floyd and likes some blues and older rock. When we go to speak through our music though, we're coming from different angles on life. I tend to write slower, mellower stuff (at least right now), with the occasional metal or rock song leaking out. He tends to write solid hard-rock or alt-rock stuff. He's not great at writing mellow stuff, and I'm not great at writing harder stuff.

 

The cool thing with sticking with playing with him has been that we've been pulling each other in different directions. Since we started the band he's learned that sometimes you can take the edge off and say even more, and I've learned better when that edge should be there. We're learning a lot and growing as writers, and it's been really fun.

 

Sometimes you have a clear idea what you want a band to be, and you just need to make that happen. Stop working with people who stand in your way and find people who are on the same page and can add something you like to the sound.

 

If you have a chance to play, though, and someone is pulling you in a different direction, it can be really rewarding to see where that goes, even if nothing comes of it.

 

Hope you figure out what you want to do here, and get everything out of the two-piece, the four-piece, and your solo stuff that you hope for.

 

Yeah, like huge influences for me are grunge, alternative, blues, hard rock stuff like that. The thing is that different musical tastes add a lot of variety to the band and can be good, but to completely disparage a whole genre... thats what irritates me.

 

But, even though grunge and dirty blues are like my major influences, if you listen to the tracks I posted, I see no resemblance.

[bschory]

Yeah, like huge influences for me are grunge, alternative, blues, hard rock stuff like that. The thing is that different musical tastes add a lot of variety to the band and can be good, but to completely disparage a whole genre... thats what irritates me.

 

But, even though grunge and dirty blues are like my major influences, if you listen to the tracks I posted, I see no resemblance.

 

I hear you. May not be worth your time to bring him around. Sometimes you just can't.

 

I went and listened to your tracks after posting. Definitely not something I would classify as grunge or dirty blues, though I can hear a blues influence in both at times. You've got some good stuff there.

 

You seem to know what you want to do, so chase it and see where it leads. And be sure to post some stuff with the full ensemble (with or without him) if you get it recorded. :-)

[Silenced Fred]

My acoustic stuff takes on completely different stuff than my electric work.

 

I do follow most of the grunge pattern of lyrics being very self reflecting and inner facing, so its all a balance.

 

Thanks for listening

[Golem]

So, initially I had it as myself on guitar and vocals, and my

friend on drums. Now, it has become two other friends

added in on bass and lead guitar. The feeling has been

of less enjoyment since the others came on. I mean I

appreciate having the instruments, but ......

 

Take a tip from Corporate Planet: Never expand ... just

use consultants. IOW, don't make additional players a

part of the band. Make the core band/duo scaleable by

knowing who you can "add in" on an as-needed basis.

 

If you don't click, or you no longer click, with certain

"consultants", don't engage them anymore, or engage

them only when you absolutely must. A consultant

who you find too irritating as a full band mate may be

easily tolerable as an occasional "add in". Plus, an

"add in" won't feel he can take over. Lead geetards

too often assume that they are the "lead everything".

But if they are not even 'officially' band mates then

that keeps a lid on that "lead ego".

 

---------------------------------------

 

I myself play mainly as an "add in". When I play

we are a duo [or sometimes trio]. Without any "add

ins" the act is just Ms Diva, soloing on vox and KB.

I've done over a thousand duo gigs with Ms D and I

just play. It's her gig. I NEVER suggest ANYTHING.

I - just - play .... or I can go home ... cuz it ain't my

gig, and she can play without me and keep ALL the

money. BTW, she pays me what she sees fit and I

have no clue what she gets paid. I just play.

 

Now, over the time of those 1000 gigs, many folks

approach me as if I'm in charge. Think about that:

I play "thud thud" .... SHE plays melody and sings.

So now why is it that folks so often just assume I'm

WMIC [White Man In Charge] ? OK, well I am white

and she is not ... and I am a man ... and she is not.

That expalins some of it. But also, it's my ax, my

Geetar-Shaped ax. Clearly, the player of the geetar

shaped ax MUST be the lead/leader, right ?

 

----------------------------------

 

Well, thaz how the world is. So, especially if all in

your band are equally male and equally white, then

the hired geetards will begin to assume that they're

either "in charge" or at least "upper management".

So, just DO NOT "add in" any actual band mates.

 

Let the players realize that their gig is like mine,

my "I -just- play" gig. They can play, or they can

shut up and go home .... yet they are not kicked

out of the band ... they are just offa that gig [cuz

they never were "in the band"]. OTOH, it really is

no benefit to the players that they can't actually

be kicked out. It will always remain up to YOU

whether you use them often, seldom, or never.

 

 

 

`

[EVOL!]

I think what you're experiencing is the transformation from "hobby playing" to "professional playing".

 

It's like everything, once your hobby becomes your job, it's...well, it's work!

 

My brother is an artist. And I don't mean he draws nice pictures, he's a true artist... charcoal, watercolors, oil, sculpts, etc. He worked on his stuff any free time he had.

 

When it became his job, he never touched anything outside of work.

 

Like Bowling. If you like to bowl, you enjoy every trip to the alley. If you became a professional, the pressure, etc. would make bowling work, not fun.

 

I am calling BS here. Not about your brother; about your overall point. If I could have a career making music I would do it in a heartbeat. I have made a lot of personal and physical sacrifices in the past for music and it was *never* "not fun". Yes, it is still work, but where I come from we call it labor of love.

[EVOL!]

WARNING - Going to get on my soap box and rant.

 

Nathan - You need to have a meeting with your drummer and bassplayer and talk about dumping your lead guitarist. Having musicians with different styles and interests is OK and healthy as long as you all have the same vision or goal and are on the same path to get there. If this cat wants to do metal and not put in the time to rehearse with you guys, he is only going to hold you back and he will never be happy. If it all falls apart with your bass player because of this, go out with your drummer as a two piece. That is what my drummer and I decided after two years searching for other members that fit. You can always meet people after you play out and get into the music community.

 

Also, any new band playing all originals needs to rehearse two or three times a week for the first few months. You need to get to know each other musically and develop that telepathy. You will be amazed at how tight you guys get. You will grow a lot too as a musician.

 

/end rant

[DanvillRob]

I am calling BS here. Not about your brother; about your overall point. If I could have a career making music I would do it in a heartbeat. I have made a lot of personal and physical sacrifices in the past for music and it was *never* "not fun". Yes, it is still work, but where I come from we call it labor of love.

 

 

We can all only hope that we're lucky enough to make a profession out of what we love. Many musicians do. Doesn't mean it isn't fun...but it does mean that it's work.

 

I love to play and sing...but as a job, doing it when you're sick, ('cause you HAVE to), ain't fun.

 

BTW...here's something my brother gave me for Christmas year before last. (Original Oil Painting)

[EVOL!]

That's an amazing painting. Hats off to your brother. Do need to say that the orange color of the shirt reminds me of a prison jump suit. Not that I know anything about prison...

[EVOL!]

I love to play and sing...but as a job, doing it when you're sick, ('cause you HAVE to), ain't fun.

 

Maybe it depends on your level of self worth. I have played shows with nasty head colds; stopping between songs to wipe the snot off of my chin. I played a show 6 hours after getting off a plane from Belgium and so jet lagged I barely knew what year it was. Two days before one show I rolled my ankle playing basketball and did the show with an ankle brace and my shoe untied because my ankle was too swollen to get the shoe laced up. The shows were all tests to see how far I could push myself. Sorry, they were all fun. And I did each show because I wanted to, not because I had to.

[Silenced Fred]

WARNING - Going to get on my soap box and rant.

 

Nathan - You need to have a meeting with your drummer and bassplayer and talk about dumping your lead guitarist. Having musicians with different styles and interests is OK and healthy as long as you all have the same vision or goal and are on the same path to get there. If this cat wants to do metal and not put in the time to rehearse with you guys, he is only going to hold you back and he will never be happy. If it all falls apart with your bass player because of this, go out with your drummer as a two piece. That is what my drummer and I decided after two years searching for other members that fit. You can always meet people after you play out and get into the music community.

 

Also, any new band playing all originals needs to rehearse two or three times a week for the first few months. You need to get to know each other musically and develop that telepathy. You will be amazed at how tight you guys get. You will grow a lot too as a musician.

 

/end rant

 

I'm gonna see if we can have a good next practice, if not, I'm gonna suggest he leaves. I still enjoy it, he has some great ideas for songs, but I'm still not sure.

 

But, no matter what, I still enjoy playing and writing songs. I played covers of crappy songs all last year in a band. It was stupid, but I still enjoyed the hell out of it.

[EVOL!]

I'm gonna see if we can have a good next practice, if not, I'm gonna suggest he leaves. I still enjoy it, he has some great ideas for songs, but I'm still not sure.

 

But, no matter what, I still enjoy playing and writing songs. I played covers of crappy songs all last year in a band. It was stupid, but I still enjoyed the hell out of it.

 

Above all, follow your love of music. Some people are going to be hurt or offended, but that is their problem. Think about Neil Young. He had to leave Buffalo Springfield and later part ways with CSN to follow his own calling.

 

I wish I would have had this advice when I was in my early 20s.