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shredding? why are most people down on playing fast...

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By S t e v e
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milod

milod

Posted
Posted

Matt...

 

Actually given that I was basically done with my post high school formalized study by '67, and with formal music study by the end of '64, I have to admit I wouldn't know most "serious" music composers from then until now if one came up to bite me.

 

You're making me think, though. I have a hunch that a lotta the resistance to the Schoenberg/Bartok/Webern sorta thing came pretty strong. OTOH, I like Gershwin and at my age, ain't that "up to date?" <chortle>

 

But I've also gotta admit that I think a lot of the sort of talent who would be the Vivaldi/Bach/Mozart types since the phonograph, then the radio, then talking pictures and newer tech, have gone into different sorts of musical work.

 

Yeah, there are still concert artists and composers. I know one lady, Nina Martinez, who's a Moscow music grad from St. Petersburg playing violin in a German orchestra and doing some pretty neat modern piano compositions, for example. Yet I only got to know her since she's married to a local guy.

 

http://ivoryfantasy.com/

 

Classically trained... met her husband in the US while learning boot scooting and the music behind it in Texas. A real talent.

 

Oh - and on piano, she can "shred," but very musically in a number of styles. Here's a nice Russian classical musician's take on '50s rock:

 

 

Other than that sorta thing... I think there's been some really interesting "program music" for motion pictures and television.

 

There always have been "art song" musicians, folk type or various equivalents of our saloon bands, but I think the phonograph, then the newer various sound-capable mass media tended to keep a lotta folks with real talent at composition doing the musical equivalent of the painter's miniatures.

 

Oh - I also think a lotta our "program music" and "pop" music folks don't get the credit they deserve for a lotta their stuff that gets crammed into two to three minutes or so. For example, Glen Miller's "Moonlight Serenade," Or the old "Deep Purple" that first was intended as a piano piece. "Laura" for the film noir movie of the same name... etc., etc., etc.

 

BTW to all...

 

Actually it takes speed to play well slowly. Think about it: If one is to do an entry to a note, the timing of that note to an almost infinitesimally small window to achieve the appropriate sound is itself a matter of "speed." It's less written about in guitar terms, but the end of a note also can be incredibly important overall in music. When does it end, and how? What is done with a note while it's being played? Is there a vibrato, an intense sustain played "straight," e.g., the trumpet beginning of "Thus Spake Zarathustra," that trumpet solo beginning the movie 2001, a Space Odyssey. How many of us pickers can match what a great trumpet player can do with that one for example. I can tell you I was never good enough on trumpet...

 

EDIT: Hey, I did mention Chet and Mark! Jerry Reed - heck, Doc Watson!

 

m

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ChanMan

ChanMan

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Posted

Facinating stuff!

 

 

Thanks Matt for a very concise explanation on your thoughts about classical composition vs. modern composition. Given your background, I'd consider that to be pretty expert opinion.

 

 

I would venture that there is equally complex music being composed today in different genres, but am also wise enough to realize that it is mostly based on stuff the earlier composers demonstrated :).

 

 

Damian....

 

Calling an accomplished guitarist names and dissing him for not reading music (or knowing theory, for that matter) is in poor taste and shows a certain amount of naivete'. You forget.... Yngwie toured major venues in the US playing Bach and Mozart alone on stage. No backing band or sequencers or sound tracks; just him, his Strat, pedalboard and amps. (And sound guys, and busses and drivers and roadies, but you get it :) )

 

I'd humbly recomend you spend some time looking up some of the greatest rock musicians in history and see how many of them strung together incredible careers not knowing how to read music, or one shred of theory.

 

 

You might also be surprised how many of the ones being dismissed as posers CAN read music and know theory backwards and forwards.

 

 

 

 

 

Overall, this is going to end up like discussing your favorite color. You like red and hate green... I like blue and hate red... Matt likes all colors, except chartreuse....

in the end, you like what you like, and you don't what you don't. That will have no bearing on anyone else's taste, and insulting someone for liking the color they do is petty.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh, and +1 on sharing a pint with Matt being the primary drawing point for going to the UK!

 

 

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Zonkers

Zonkers

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Posted

That was great. Buddy took Jimmy to school. LOL!

 

 

I've been lucky enough to see all 4 of them, not at the same time, but Buddy and BB were together, the Fabulous T-birds for JRV, and I saw Eric at Alpine Valley, WI along with a host of others (SRV, Robert Cray, Jeff Healey, etc)the night before SRV died [crying]:(

Unfortunately, I was too ripped to remember most of that concert, except when Stevie played the strat with his boot =D>

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Duende

Duende

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The Blue Guitar!! I haven't even the sheet music to it but have it in my sights to learn. Gary Ryan played it tat Tippett's funeral; he was only in his twenties too...what an honour!! You have good taste Versatile and live up to your namesake msp_biggrin.gif

 

Matt

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Duende

Duende

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Matt...

 

You're making me think, though. I have a hunch that a lotta the resistance to the Schoenberg/Bartok/Webern sorta thing came pretty strong. OTOH, I like Gershwin and at my age, ain't that "up to date?" <chortle>

 

NO!!! LMAO msp_biggrin.gifmsp_biggrin.gif

 

 

Yeah, there are still concert artists and composers. I know one lady, Nina Martinez, who's a Moscow music grad from St. Petersburg playing violin in a German orchestra and doing some pretty neat modern piano compositions, for example. Yet I only got to know her since she's married to a local guy.

 

http://ivoryfantasy.com/

 

m

 

will check out cheers

 

Matt

 

 

 

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Versatile

Versatile

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The Blue Guitar!! I haven't even the sheet music to it but have it in my sights to learn. Gary Ryan played it tat Tippett's funeral; he was only in his twenties too...what an honour!! You have good taste Versatile and live up to your namesake msp_biggrin.gif

 

Matt

Thankyou Matt nice of you to say so

As my moniker infers

 

I Dig Most Stuff

 

V :-({|=

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ChanMan

ChanMan

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Posted

OK, I'll play...

 

I don't care for shredding, not because I can't appreciate the technical proficiency involved, not because it's a lot of notes, but because very quickly it all starts to sound like this to me:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eq75LCE73mM&feature=channel

 

 

/chuckle

 

 

I love this song....

 

I wasn't aware it was shredding when I heard it in 5th grade.... [lol]

 

 

Maybe I DO love shred!!

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Disembodied Loaf

Disembodied Loaf

Posted
Posted

Shredding can be used very expressively to make some unique sounding stuff. I'm not into having a whole lot of rules. There's different emotions and different ways to convey them. I'm not a huge fan of shredding in general. Much of it sounds the same to me but Buckethead's technique stands out.

 

Fast playing can be used to make things standout. Ex: Diana Krall, piano player plays this fast lick which accents the chords played next, giving it some feeling. Buckethead does the same, but with a bend or vibrato, which sounds a bit more expressive than your average blues rocker.

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WahKeen

WahKeen

Posted
Posted

but not on playing slow?, jaquin (sorry if spelt wrong) picked up on it in another thread...do the majority of people who prefer notes to be played slowly and not fast "shred" only do so because they can't play fast themselves? ie don't have the technique... :-k

 

debate here...

 

Alright Hasper Jazlenut...lol It's Joaquin... no big deal. I was "just saying"... didn't mean to rattle monkeys (or threads)... What a name dropper! [biggrin] How's ya Steve?

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damian

damian

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i recently saw a show called "keeping score" about Beethoven's Eroica (Symphony #3). There is some serious shred potential in there. It was a truly epic piece of music that took him 3 years to complete. Clearly there was labor in the musical message...

 

fast playing, slow playing: if it fits what you are trying to "say" then it works. simply playing fast (or slow) without that is like speaking jibberish. But, when used to convey your ideas it can be very meaningful, regardless of the genre or style of music.

 

-Don

I agree with you 100 %, fully and completely !!!!!!! [thumbup] [thumbup] [thumbup]

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damian

damian

Posted
Posted

Facinating stuff!

 

 

Thanks Matt for a very concise explanation on your thoughts about classical composition vs. modern composition. Given your background, I'd consider that to be pretty expert opinion.

 

 

I would venture that there is equally complex music being composed today in different genres, but am also wise enough to realize that it is mostly based on stuff the earlier composers demonstrated :).

 

 

Damian....

 

Calling an accomplished guitarist names and dissing him for not reading music (or knowing theory, for that matter) is in poor taste and shows a certain amount of naivete'. You forget.... Yngwie toured major venues in the US playing Bach and Mozart alone on stage. No backing band or sequencers or sound tracks; just him, his Strat, pedalboard and amps. (And sound guys, and busses and drivers and roadies, but you get it :) )

 

I'd humbly recomend you spend some time looking up some of the greatest rock musicians in history and see how many of them strung together incredible careers not knowing how to read music, or one shred of theory.

 

 

You might also be surprised how many of the ones being dismissed as posers CAN read music and know theory backwards and forwards.

 

 

 

 

 

Overall, this is going to end up like discussing your favorite color. You like red and hate green... I like blue and hate red... Matt likes all colors, except chartreuse....

in the end, you like what you like, and you don't what you don't. That will have no bearing on anyone else's taste, and insulting someone for liking the color they do is petty.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh, and +1 on sharing a pint with Matt being the primary drawing point for going to the UK!

 

 

 

 

I know, ChanMan...........What you didn't catch on to ChanMan is that this thread had been dying out, and I wanted the disscussion to continue, and one of the ways

 

to do that was to give an IMHO with a little bit of fun !!!!!!! I'm sorry you didn't catch that !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [thumbup] Jeeeezzzzzzzzz................. AND IT WORKED, so, watcha think of that ???????

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ChanMan

ChanMan

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Posted

I know, ChanMan...........What you didn't catch on to ChanMan is that this thread had been dying out, and I wanted the disscussion to continue, and one of the ways

 

to do that was to give an IMHO with a little bit of poumpousness !!!!!!! I'm sorry you didn't catch that !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [thumbup] Jeeeezzzzzzzzz................. AND IT WORKED, so, watcha think of that ???????

 

 

I think Homz. would be proud.

 

If he hadn't gotten banned for using just such childish antics, that is.

 

 

You'll notice how your drivel was ignored in favor of Matt's far more cerebral input. I was the only one to grace you with a reply, and it was only to point out your epic fail and tell you to do some research.

 

 

Anyway, you asked, and that's what I think [biggrin] .

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mcmurray

mcmurray

Posted
Posted

I like fast playing as long as it's musical. That is all areas of music and all instruments, not just guitar. However, it is by no means a necessity.

 

One other thing - learning to play very fast makes you a FREAKING MASTER of playing slow. Keep that in mind guys.

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